Axe-Fx II "Quantum" Rev 6.02 Firmware Released

unix-guy said:
Mikko - here is the problem... even the "basic" page is not "authentic" - we (or at least I) are talking about indicating what controls exist on a given piece of gear, not advanced parameters.

Some amp models, for example, have no MID control... it would be nice to know that without having to dig thru the wiki. Another amp (I forget which) has only a "TONE" control and on the model, this is mapped to the "TREBLE" knob. Again, would be nice to know that without having to go searching.

The recent addition of the Timmy Drive model shows another example, where a user that owns a real Timmy was trying to get the controls mapped. Cliff said "set the Low Cut all the way off and the Treble all the way on to be 'flat'". Also, I believe the Ruckus Drive model has a similar thing with the Treble being a "high cut"...

How is anyone supposed to be aware of those things? They are not in the manual in most cases (which is severely outdated) and the average user is NOT scouring the forum or wiki to eek out these details.

I am a tech guy, I am a gear guy - I am not afraid of all the options although there are many advanced ones I choose not to use. I am at the same time still sometimes overwhelmed by the possibilities!

Imagine what a non-technical person who isn't really a gear fiend is going to feel when they plug in and need to dial in tones? I have a friend who recently bought in whole-hog (Axe Fx, MFC-101, FRFR) after hearing my rig. He is a really great musician that can get great tones on a traditional rig... he is getting by, but the amount of stuff he doesn't know or is not up to date on is staggering because he is NOT a technical person and he doesn't use the internet much.

Anyway, I know there is a tradeoff... my friend has an HD500X and I was helping him do some tone crafting the other day. In his Chorus block, he can choose "Dimension". He then has controls over 4 on/off switches and Mix. Period... pretty limited! Now, if that is authentically what that Chorus model offers, at least I can say "well, this is what the original options were". If I wanted to go deeper on the POD I am out of luck... but I know the Axe Fx gives me a lot more options to tweak the Dimension chorus. :)

So, while I would like the ability to easily know what is "authentic" I don't want to be locked in to it!
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Here here! Very well said, and it was probably all written up in VI... ;)
 
I'm all for that. I would most likely even prefer to use the unit like that most of the time as I very rarely dive into using advanced parameters. In general though what we're talking about here is limiting our options. It kind of relies on the assumption that the analog counterparts are better than the digital counterparts which IMO is not always true. There are some amps that IMO sound so much better after a few advanced tweaks here and there like f.ex. the Bogner amp sims. That being said... for that reason I rarely use the Bogner amp sims to begin with. I'm Finnish so I will remain neutral. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. If you have a way to toggle between the two I'm sure I would use the feature.
 
Just an additional wrinkle here... I get it when it comes to pedals with esoteric controls.
As for amps, I have yet to play an amp without a mid control where I didn't wish it had one.

I used to be happy with the concept of "I plug in, the amp respond right, sounds like I expect"... Cool

Now, I know how to shape the tone and can add odd and/or even harmonics to get what I want. I spent a lot of time figuring out what makes stuff tick. The one thing I can't remember ever wanting is less control unless it has impact on how it responds.

Not to be an ass but the guys that keep asking for presets, and want the box to be identical to all items it simulates likely will spent more time arguing why it's "better" than brand x or y instead of doing....just sayin
 
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Ed DeGenaro said:
Just an additional wrinkle here... I get it when it comes to pedals with esoteric controls.
As for Amos I have yet to play an amp without a mid control where I didn't wish it had one.

I used to be happy with the concept of I lug in, the amp respond right, sounds like I expect... Cool

Now I know how to shape the tone and cadd idd oR even harmonics and get what I want. I spent a lot of timing figuring out what makes stuff tick the one thing I can't remember ever wanting is less control unless it has impact on time it response.

Not to be an ass but the guys that Kerri asking for presets and want the box to be identical to all items it simulated likely will spent more time arguing why it's "better" than brand x or y instead of doing....just sayin
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All your base belong to us?
 
So if having "TLDR" control mode ended up requiring more memory to implement and no longer fit on MK1/2 devices and meant development of firmware for those devices had to cease, would you still want to see it? Because it totally would open that can of worms again. Having two separate control methods would definitely increase the memory footprint required for the firmware.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
I'm all for that. I would most likely even prefer to use the unit like that most of the time as I very rarely dive into using advanced parameters. In general though what we're talking about here is limiting our options. It kind of relies on the assumption that the analog counterparts are better than the digital counterparts which IMO is not always true. There are some amps that IMO sound so much better after a few advanced tweaks here and there like f.ex. the Bogner amp sims. That being said... for that reason I rarely use the Bogner amp sims to begin with. I'm Finnish so I will remain neutral. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. If you have a way to toggle between the two I'm sure I would use the feature.
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The bottom line is any change like this costs $$ so it's just speculation :)

I don't see having the original labels on the original controls as limiting our options, for me, it's not having to keep all the "translation" knowledge in my head or be online with the amp model guide or wiki when programming presets.

For anyone already familiar with the real amp or pedal, they can program straight away.

A big part of my day job is software UI design and human computer interaction.

Generalization, like having the controls for every amp model have the same labels, is an often used design pattern. Specialization, like have the Vox amp model controls labeled just like a real Vox is another design pattern. Both have strengths and weaknesses are often applied to different aspects with the UI of a single program or web site.

In humans, generalization tends to be favored by engineering types and specialization is favored by creative types.

What I recommend avoiding, is overloading. That is when a parameter has different functions depending on the amp model, but the label doesn't change. This creates confusion in even seasoned users if the parameter is one not often used.
 
The aurguements for a layout that are accurate to the actual amps are understandable, I don't use advance parameters either like Mikko. I do wonder if everyone will be satisfied if that happens and acheive the desired tones they like. Personally I do change up cabinets a lot, as others have said amp/ speaker combinations have a huge impact on tone and response. And true some pedals work way better with some amp models. I see a lot of work ahead for Cliff if he were to do this!! When I heard Vegababy playing that Dirty Shirley a while back I thought Wow that's awesome and Tyler grund with that SRV tone and his take on it, I thought man these guys have great ears and know what they want. Oh well....
 
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Martyntb said:
When I heard Vegababy playing that Dirty Shirley a while back I thought Wow that's awesome and Tyler grund with that SRV tone and his take on it, I thought man these guys have great ears and know what they want. Oh well....
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thanks for that!
for that clip I actually stayed 100% close to the amp's "authentic" controls. but, I had played the real thing a few days before and knew what tone I wanted to go for and coming back to "authentic mode", knew that I could get that tone with that specific amp and the sound it has to offer (if I had to buy a real amp, that one would be on my shortlist).
 
It's funny. Every time this conversation come up, the ones that argue against this option, are the ones that wouldn't use it.

Don't want or need it....don't use it. Seems simple enough to me?

Might be easier to implement if this is as an option in 'Axe-Edit', 'AX8-Edit', 'FX8-Edit' only, and not in the Hardware.

For the record, I would use this most of the time when exploring a model that I am unfamiliar with, or one that I know well and have no need for 'advanced' or non-'authentic' controls to get what I am after.

I could just switch back to the 'standard' 'UI' if I needed more.

Just my $0.02
 
Speaking with toying with advanced parameters; been playing with the USA IIC++.

Lol, couldn't decide where to put the speaker drive. Wound up at .17

I mean, its an honest setting, right?
 
I can express my thoughts?
Posso esprimere il mio pensiero ?

Cliff always does a great job, and I love when explains his project modeling. (It would be very interesting to have the chance to understand it better). I speak for myself.. ;)
Cliff fa sempre un grande lavoro, e mi piace quando spiega il suo progetto di modellazione. (sarebbe molto interessante avere la possibilità di capirlo meglio) parlo per me.


But if you want to open the market also to:
Ma se si vuole aprire il mercato anche a:

1) Professional Musicians "traditional (but attracted by new technologies).
1) Musicisti professionisti" tradizionali (ma attratti dalle nuove tecnologie).
2) Amateurs "Home Recording", also need a help graphic (AXE-EDIT) to be closer to reality.
2) Dilettanti "Home Recording", serve un aiuto anche grafico (AXE-EDIT) per essere più vicino alla realtà.
3) But even the seasoned pro (his time and always precious to devote)
3) Ma anche il professionista esperto (il suo tempo e sempre prezioso da dedicare)

These are decisions that "only" Cliff / FAS must metabolize in time. :rolleyes:
Queste sono decisioni che "solo" Cliff/FAS deve metabolizzare nel tempo.

If these requests keep coming, (legitimate in my opinion) it does not mean that what is produced today is not good.
Se queste richieste continuano ad arrivare, (lecite a mio avviso) non vuol dire che che quanto prodotto ad oggi non va bene.

From the first AXE-Fx "STD" to date, a great job and was also made on this front :)
Dal primo AXE-Fx "STD" ad oggi, un grande lavoro e stato fatto anche su questo fronte

Indeed, for a sound engineer it can be food for a lot of creativity, but not all musicians are sound engineers :(
Anzi per un Ingegnere del suono può essere spunto di molta creatività, ma non tutti i Musicisti sono ingegneri del suono

Sometimes it takes little to (with a brilliant idea) to have extraordinary results
A volte basta poco per (con una idea brillante) per avere risultati straordinari

I apologize for the incorrect English :(
Mi scuso per la lingua inglese non corretta

I do not want to be controversial :confused:
io non voglio essere polemico

But express a reflection "personal", to improve the product Fractal 2017 :)
Ma esprimere una riflessione "personale", per migliorare il prodotto Fractal 2017

Thank you for understanding
Grazie mille per la comprensione
 
psst said:
Well, the idea was just a "mode", so you'd have the option to use it or not.
Another way would be to have the controls that don't exist in the real amp/pedal in grey (for example), so you know which ones to tweak IF you want to use the amp/pedal interface just like the real one.
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I think its a nice a idea which will work for a lot of users and help Fractal gain even more fans and followers.
I would like to twist the wish slightly and have the manual (or a shortened version of it) embedded into Axe Edit, whereby a right click or hover over a parameter brings up a window with exactly what the function is doing, whether it works in conjunction with another parameter, or whether it is indeed a function on the real Amp etc etc.

I like to go chasing artist tones and this box has totally schooled me in every way so far... I am in awe of it. But crikey a feature such as this would have given me back 1000's of hours, even though I use my ears, knowing what parameters work together, or can give you exactly what bit of the tone your still searching for (or need to eliminate) right there in front of you would be a huge bonus for me. Yes I have read the manual, but I dont have a photographic memory, and actually find it a bit tedious trying to play, listen, use Axe Edit and skip through a manual....Just playing and using Axe Edit though....Well I've got the hang of that!:)
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
Talking about that "authentic mode" makes me wonder why people can't simply reset the block and use the basic controls and not touch the advanced parameters when it's not needed. That's how I use the unit. I've compared several real life counterparts to the amp sims and I'd say the only advanced parameter I use for fine tuning my tones is the speaker page of the amp sim since that varies between different speaker and amp combinations.

"When flying a plane... don't touch every knob in the cockpit."
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Well, you did a video that explained how to setup the master volume in amps, which show clearly some people are in need of it, and that making an amp model sound good isn't as easy as it sounds. Those of us with years of experience can manage, but new users can rightfully feel overwhelmed.
The presets don't help either, I don't know if it's me but very fe are usable for the music I play, even with the amps usually used for the music I play. If a recto is better with the MV at 3, then why are presets putting the MV at 4 ?

Someone coming from using tube amps will be pretty disconcerted by not finding his usual habits working. For exemple when I get to play on a 5150, I put everything on 6 and work from there. Sure doesn't work on the axefxII.
 
marcor66 said:
I can see the discussion with the MKI/II user in future when this takes additional space and no firmware updates possible ...:rolleyes:
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To have an authentic screen of each amps controls or ones a different shading to indicate that certain controls don't exist on the real counterpart....That would be a damn lot of work for Cliff and co. I can see the above post will apply, resource hungry etc. It's fair to want to know sweet spots on amps and pedals but at what cost? I'd probably use it too I guess. I just wonder if some players want fractal to do everything for them and I don't mean that in a nasty way. My Plexi I set differently to my mates to get the same tone. Everybody here will have a different opinion on "ideal settings" for amps they are totally familiar with though. The great thing about this forum is that good changes have been made by healthy discussion. I'm not against anything that helps improve it. Thanks for putting up with us Cliff!!!
 
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i am not a fan of this particular beta... the drives are awesome, but every amp sounds wrong. This is the only time i've ever said anything like that and I feel it almost sacrilege saying it.
 
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