Axe-Fx II "Quantum" Rev 4.01 Public Beta

Finally got a chance to try the Legato 100, I'm guessing I'm not bonding with it because to me it's just a flubby mush, like the worst parts of the JCM 800 tone (the farting on the low notes when really pushed) without any of the good parts. I'm surprised because I love the Cali Leggy model, but I guess this is a totally different animal.

Any tips on getting a nice lead tone from the Legato ?
 
AtomicBlaze said:
Isn't the XL a couple years old? I can't imagine why anyone would spend almost a thousand dollar upgrade for the possibility of a few more firmware upgrades which isn't even guaranteed to have much of an impact. I think most Mark I and Mark II users will hold out for the Axe FX III, and were hoping that the firmware support would continue until that unit was released. For all we know Cliff will stop firmware updates on the Axe FX II next month and then the upgrade would have been pointless.
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This is part of why I think we need to milk what we can out of it. Next up is III, they dropped the II on us like a hammer, some had just bought the ultra.
 
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dpeterson said:
This is part of why I think we need to milk what we can out of it. Next up is III, they dropped the II on us like a hammer, some just bought the ultra.
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Fortunately, the third incarnation is likely more than a year and a half away, at least based on what Cliff stated 4 months ago.
 
Horganovski said:
Finally got a chance to try the Legato 100, I'm guessing I'm not bonding with it because to me it's just a flubby mush, like the worst parts of the JCM 800 tone (the farting on the low notes when really pushed) without any of the good parts. I'm surprised because I love the Cali Leggy model, but I guess this is a totally different animal.

Any tips on getting a nice lead tone from the Legato ?
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I've got a little demo almost ready to post to the recording section.

I cranked the high mids on a 5 band passive GEQ both pre and post amp block.

I also used an 808 in front, mainly just to test the new drive improvements.

I think I'm using the two CL 4x12 factory cabs panned hard R / L
 
AtomicBlaze said:
Isn't the XL a couple years old? I can't imagine why anyone would spend almost a thousand dollar upgrade for the possibility of a few more firmware upgrades which isn't even guaranteed to have much of an impact. I think most Mark I and Mark II users will hold out for the Axe FX III, and were hoping that the firmware support would continue until that unit was released. For all we know Cliff will stop firmware updates on the Axe FX II next month and then the upgrade would have been pointless.
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Yeah, maybe.

But I remember when the XL first came out it seemed like a lot of guys who post here upgraded to XL right away just to stay on the very latest\greatest hardware. Seems logical we might see another round of upgraders if mk1\2 fw firmware reaches end of life.

I totally get Mk1\2 owners hoping that firmware support continues. But FAS only sells XL currently. How far should Cliff go to compromise for the sake of fitting it into old units he no longer sells? Maybe he could pull stuff out, maybe he would withhold putting cool new stuff in. Neither benefits new customers or current XL users.
 
StickMan said:
There's no such thing as "free". Software development is horrifically expensive and has to be paid for in some way. Money comes in to FAS from selling the units, so that has to be the source of the funding for new firmware. Ergo, the price you paid for the unit pays for future firmware updates.

As to "doesn't charge for updates", that simply becomes part of the value proposition of the unit and the way FAS has positioned themselves in the market. Let's say that FAS licensed support and upgrades the way a lot of commercial industrial software is marketed, at about 10% of the initial cost per year. So you could subscribe to upgrades for $250 a year. What would that do to sales? Maybe that would allow FAS lower the initial price of the unit. Probably it would result in a drop in sales and force FAS to lower the price of the unit to compensate. In the end, the net revenues would probably level out near the same as the current model.

There's evidence on this forum that lots of prospective purchasers come and check out the forum before they buy. I'd be willing to bet that a majority of new purchasers are fully aware that FAS puts out significant improvements to the modelling software on a frequent basis, and that getting those upgrades (at no additional cost) is an expectation when they buy. It goes into their decision to spend that much on a piece of equipment.

There's obviously a huge upside to the current model, not the least of which is the huge brand loyalty FAS has built up. It's also clearly advantageous to FAS to have a huge majority of the customer base running the latest and greatest version of the firmware, which probably wouldn't happen if customers had to have a paid subscription for updates. These factors probably drive sales and mitigate some of the cost of firmware development.

But the updates still aren't free.
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No worries man, it's the way I see it! Maybe FAS had a special running I didn't know about when I bought mine? It's always been free for me. It's really about perspective not whether it's free or not!
 
Something that stuck with me on other products was Liquidfoot. Jeff personally called me and we worked through a problem on my older LiquidFoot Pro (scenes, when they first came out). He modified the firmware on an outdated piece of hardware he no longer sold to add a feature that was needed. Guess what the next controller I bought? LiquidFoot 12+, next one will be Liquidfoot. Even though he's impossible to get a hold of.

Cliff is a player too, and tries to please everyone, best he can. If it's the end, I'll just continue using it, till i'm tired with it or until the 3 comes along or something else from another brand. It's not the end of the world, would just be cool if he continued support.
 
Don't really understand the problem here.

If 4.01 is the last revision possible that would allow reverting to previous revisions, then so be it. It's just a fact. Those folks who want the revision option will stop at 4.01.

Those who are willing to give up the revision option might be able to ride the development wave a bit longer but they will also have to stop at some point in which case development on the I/II is complete.

So both camps can be satisfied without impacting one another. Removing the revision option doesn't help or hurt the 4.01 crew one way or the other.

Of course, this assumes that eliminating the revision option frees up enough storage to make it worthwhile and Cliff is still willing to develop code for 2 platforms for awhile longer.
 
I do not understand why so many people here take for granted that we are all always waiting to come out the new FAS model, such as to use a tool like the AXE FX was the same as having to do with mass consumer items such as a smartphone or a new video game. The AXE FX is a tool, that many here also used to work, it's not a video game. Personally, I infinitely appreciate the ability to have continuous firmware updates, and I believe that FAS do an exceptional job, not only in producing a tool such as the AXE FX but also for their continued support offering. That said, however, as a owner of the Mark I, I still have to admit that I am quite disappointed of the short life of a product such as AXE FX, which I bought in 2012 and that has practically already exhausted its cycle. As I said, I've not bought the AXE with the same spirit with which some people buy the iPhone, for me it was an investment, and now I see that was a short-term investment. Surely the digital market has a dynamic very different from the other markets, evolves very quickly, but not for this I'm going to change a professional instrument such as the AXE FX every 4 years! It would be crazy! If I consider that my investment before the AXE was a VHT Ultralead, that I held 10 years, bought to 2200 € and I sold at 2000 €, I should consider the AXE FX an investment not so happy. In reality I'm very happy of my AXE FX, because, as I said, I consider it a great tool with an incredible potential, but I can not avoid to express my sadness at seeing an item I bought with sacrifice and for reasons far from frivolous to come to the end of its life cycle in just four years. So I wish FAS could do something to prolong Mk I life, perhaps removing the previous firmware from the firmware that will be released in the future.
 
quark said:
Don't really understand the problem here.

If 4.01 is the last revision possible that would allow reverting to previous revisions, then so be it. It's just a fact. Those folks who want the revision option will stop at 4.01.
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Not true. I wouldn't be overjoyed about giving up rollback functionality, but I'd continue upgrading.
 
Coby said:
I do not understand why so many people here take for granted that we are all always waiting to come out the new FAS model, such as to use a tool like the AXE FX was the same as having to do with mass consumer items such as a smartphone or a new video game. The AXE FX is a tool, that many here also used to work, it's not a video game. Personally, I infinitely appreciate the ability to have continuous firmware updates, and I believe that FAS do an exceptional job, not only in producing a tool such as the AXE FX but also for their continued support offering. That said, however, as a owner of the Mark I, I still have to admit that I am quite disappointed of the short life of a product such as AXE FX, which I bought in 2012 and that has practically already exhausted its cycle. As I said, I've not bought the AXE with the same spirit with which some people buy the iPhone, for me it was an investment, and now I see that was a short-term investment. Surely the digital market has a dynamic very different from the other markets, evolves very quickly, but not for this I'm going to change a professional instrument such as the AXE FX every 4 years! It would be crazy! If I consider that my investment before the AXE was a VHT Ultralead, that I held 10 years, bought to 2200 € and I sold at 2000 €, I should consider the AXE FX an investment not so happy. In reality I'm very happy of my AXE FX, because, as I said, I consider it a great tool with an incredible potential, but I can not avoid to express my sadness at seeing an item I bought with sacrifice and for reasons far from frivolous to come to the end of its life cycle in just four years. So I wish FAS could do something to prolong Mk I life, perhaps removing the previous firmware from the firmware that will be released in the future.
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The original Axe FX (standard) was released in 2006. Support for it and the Ultra ended in 2011. The successor (Axe-FX II) was released in 2011. If support for the MK I and II ends this year then it will have followed in the product lifecycle of the original, which was 5 years.

That said, you make it sound as if the unit becomes useless once upgrade support ends. I use my DAW (Samplitude 11) regularly and haven't upgraded since it was installed, over a year ago. It works great and does everything I need it to do(and more). If there were some major improvement that added functionality that I thought would add real value to the DAW, I'd upgrade. But I don't consider it obsolete or value it any less because I haven't.
 
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Extending support to (soon to be) discontinued products should not be at the expense of diminishing features and stifling of progress of current models and advancement of the software. Cliff's epiphanies for the future should not be constrained by 5 year old hardware limitations.
 
JayCM800XL said:
Extending support to (soon to be) discontinued products should not be at the expense of diminishing features and stifling of progress of current models and advancement of the software. Cliff's epiphanies for the future should not be constrained by 5 year old hardware limitations.
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epiphanies != ability to roll back modeling versions. epiphanies are making the modeling better.
 
Ok I'm probably going to get some shit for this, but here it goes,

The problem is (or my problem rather), When I bought an Axe FX II MKII, I was bummed the XL was announced less than a year later, which boasted a plethora of upgraded hardware improvements and features.. The same thing happened with the MFC-101... I bought the MK II, and a couple months later after the MKIII was announced, again with much improved hardware.

Don't get me wrong, I am 100% satisfied with my purchases, however, if I'd been given a heads up, I most likely would have held off buying the MK II's. I understand, they are running a business and that business is to sell their products, but given a choice I think anyone would have opted for to wait for the newer improved model or a "sale" on the MK II.

so I'm a skeptic... I'm thinking, shit, I'll go through all the hurdles of selling my Axe Fx II mk II and MFC 101 mk II, for a loss (now that it's been announced that it's coming to an end for updates, and my 3 year warranty has expired, and I've used it for 3 years) and then take another huge loss thanks to oil taking a dump and the Canadian dollar being worth 30% less than when I bought in 2013, only to see FAS announce the Axe FX III in 6-8 months....

So, yea, if it's the end of updates for the MK II, no problem, but as for upgrading to the XL+ ??? it's just no.

That said, I am completely satisfied with what I have and what I paid for it. Yes, I would love to see more scene controllers, and stuff like that, but modelling wise, I haven't seen a noticeable improvement for how I use the Axe Fx II for a while. I was able to dial in authentic tones on the old FW 11, just as well as I am doing on the current Quantum 4.0, and as I've found "my sound," it always ends up dialed in the same.

I am and always will be a FAS supporter for life. I can wait for the Axe-Fx III if/when it comes.
 
JayCM800XL said:
I wrote: "Cliff's epiphanies for the future"... not the past, meaning... he should be able to improve and develop his code without concerns of "if it will fit on older models, forever?".
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Up until a week ago we thought our units could run the same firmware as the the XL. We are all in a little shock I think to find out that our units are more limited. I am still happy with my Mark II, but I must say that I am not happy to find out this news.
 
Severed said:
Ok I'm probably going to get some shit for this, but here it goes,
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FWIW, I think it is perfectly fair to be bummed about personally having bad timing as long as you have reasonable perspective and understanding that as a tech business, FAS cannot give people advanced notice or technical details prior to major announcements without the risk of it impacting their livelihood. Sounds like you have a reasonably mature perspective to me!
 
AtomicBlaze said:
Up until a week ago we thought our units could run the same firmware as the the XL. We are all in a little shock I think to find out that our units are more limited. I am still happy with my Mark II, but I must say that I am not happy to find out this news.
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When the XL and XL+ were released, I seem to remember there being talk (somewhere) about firmware limitations on Mk I and Mk II. Doesn't bother me at all. Our units have a long life ahead of them. I'm happy with what I have (and what I end up with) when our units have reached their capacity. That is, until Cliff releases the Kraken and announces his next great hardware development. :)
 
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