Axe-Fx II "Quantum" Rev 4.01 Public Beta

[Lifestalker]

It would be nice if we could stop speculating and let Cliff decide on his own. Looks like he has plenty to go by. Not trying to be disrespectful, but damn this looks ungrateful. lol

Let's get back to appreciating the improvements.

 

[henryrobinett]

...GONE!

And while were nominating things for removal, I say replace the Powerball amp model. It's the worst model in and outside of the Axe. Fizzy, unintelligible mids and straight up flubby bass response.

Can you tell that I hate it?

I use the Ring Modulator all the TIME!!!!

 

[FlavAnderson]

What people need to understand is that if the older modeling versions are removed they are removed for all versions including the XL and XL+. It's a shared code base and it's too much work to be putting in a zillion #ifdefs to handle the Mark I/II case.

Cliff, you are an outstanding human being man!! Seriously. It is unbelievable that you are in the loop trying to find a solution to something that we all knew was inevitable, so as to keep everyone content! IMHO if keeping future updates available to MKI/II users means limiting XL and XL+ users, I think it should be up to the latter to state their opinion. Us MKI/II users are losing something to gain something, XL and XL+ users are losing something to no gain!

 

[Pwrmac7600]

And it would be nice to do that without people who don't have the issue interjecting with flippant advice like 'buy a new box'.

No offense but,
I think people interjecting who don't have the issue is justified considering cliff has clearly stated that he can't make changes like the changes suggested to only one segment of units because they share the same code.
Therefore when the suggestions being offered now mean the people who don't have the issue will lose features, they feel a need to interject. XL/XL+ users shouldn't have to give up features just so the MK I/II users can hang on for another couple of firmware updates.

 

[crg123]

Just to play devil's advocate here (I don't use the modeling version switching feature at all), but even if Cliff were to make that change for the MKI / MKII users I would imagine because of the spec difference (4x ROM size etc) between the XL series and the older versions this point would have to come eventually anyway. Cliff even said he worked like crazy just to be able to allow the MKI/MKII to be able to even use these latest firmwares. He did this without you guys even asking because he wanted to let you guys experience all of his hard work as much as possible and give you the most value for your money. If he were a lot of other companies he wouldn't have cared and just said buy the new device so I can make money to push my product further, but he didn't.

It has to come eventually guys, it's just the way this works. If he is able to remove the feature and add a few more firmware updates what will you guys say when it eventually comes to an end will it be "ok I've gotten 6 years of free updates out of my device" or will it be "what else can you do for us?" when you first bought this device did you ever dream it would sound as good as it does now?

Again if he removes that feature it doesnt affect me as an XL user and wouldn't mind it to benefit the MKI/MKII users, but If you give a mouse a cookie...

 

[vestapol]

Thanks Cliff and team FAS - great update!

I'm on my third Axe-FX since Ultra days, always happy to benefit from your breakthrough updates, so FWIW I would gladly choose current version only if it will allow future updates to my MKI.

PS - Love the Hook!

 

[5150]

No sh*t. My response was in direct response to another point. The bottom line is that stopping upgrades on one series of II's fragments the AxeFX2 user base and 'buying a new box' does not eliminate said fragmentation since unlike much older technology, these units will not disappear anytime soon.

This may be inevitable, and if that is the case, so be it. Because, technology. And the Mk1/2's will surely stop out at an awesome end point and they have had an amazing run.

BUT, it is NOT desirable for the FAS user base (or FAS for support or development) to have fragmentation so it is a shame/regrettable if it does have to happen; and the 'solution' of telling people to buy newer II series units does not mitigate that problem and may in fact exacerbate it. So, I think it makes sense to talk here about potential ideas for ways to keep those units up to date and provide that feedback those thoughts to FAS as I am sure they would be willing to consider any good ideas that make their customers happy. And it would be nice to do that without people who don't have the issue interjecting with flippant advice like 'buy a new box'.

Duuude...relax a little. Not sure my simple questions deserved such a response.

My response was in direct response to another point.

Sorry I don't have 25 pages of this thread committed to memory.

BUT, it is NOT desirable for the FAS user base (or FAS for support or development)

Cliff has already stated that the efforts to keep the older units alive would be a good deal harder, especially with regard to development. So, you're wrong there.

Regarding support, it's a discontinued product already, so why would support calls go up when they stop releasing software updates? If anything, support will have less units to support, and no one trying to flash them (or significantly less people). This would also mean less platforms to support, at least inside the Axe-Fx brand, new products not withstanding.

And it would be nice to do that without people who don't have the issue interjecting with flippant advice like 'buy a new box'.

I never said to go buy a new box, so I'm guessing that's aimed elsewhere. I own a Mark I, so this directly affects me. I'll see how happy I am with the AX8 that's on it's way to me, before I determine if I'll upgrade to an XL+. But the opinion of "buy a new box" is no more or less valid than the opinion of "keep the old one alive." It's just an opinion in the context of a discussion.

Sounds to me like Cliff has already made his decision. With luck, he may rethink that decision based on the pleas here, but I'm not betting on it, nor do I feel like his consideration is owed to me. It's never going to be a convenient time for Mark I/II owners when FAS elects to stop support on a unit, especially one that is so well regarded.

 

[Perdikament]

The amp modeling and the stock cabs are so wonderful at the moment, I can't fathom that anyone's not able to get the sound you desire. I believe there is enough control and tweaks (if you're not happy with defaults) to achieve any tone.

Amen, the only reason anyone couldn't find a number of stunningly sublime tones is user error/learning curve.

You can absolutely & literally DROP JAWS with the tones & effects in this box both recorded & live.

I was going to once add up all the amps dollar value & I didn't even get 1/2 way and was well over one hundred grand, WELL over it. Forget about getting into cab values etc.
Even a $29.99 cab pack is a fuckin steal.

I dunno man, to me any way ya can possibly slice it, I just don't see any possible way anyone could bitch about it.. I find it insulting to be honest.

 

[Vede]

Apologies if this was asked and answered earlier and I missed it: At the current rate of progress, how long before the XL+ models also run out of capacity for firmware upgrades? I'm a Mark II owner who would consider upgrading to a new model, but I'd hate to make an expensive switch and then realize the runway even for the latest version is fairly short.

 

[FlavAnderson]

Here's my take on it...

The ability to easily switch between modelling versions was never a feature to begin with. It was graciously added by Cliff because people kept saying...'the new versions keep changing the sound of my presets, I want to go back to version x.x'. Which you could always do and still can, by re-installing previous firmware versions with Fractal-Bot, which only takes a couple of minutes.

Prior to the roll-back feature being added, I'm certain I recall reading that the MKI/MKII would be supported for a long time because it had the same processing power as the XL/XL+ and they both shared the same code. The only main difference was the ability to store more presets in the XL/XL+, which most people don't need...myself included. So now that the last few versions of the algorithms are included with each update, the MKI/MKII, which have less ROM capacity, will soon no longer be able to handle the ever-increasing size of the compiled firmware, even with the compression algorithm Cliff added.

It's like saying, I'll upgrade to Windows 10, but I still want to be able to use Windows 8.x, Windows 7.x, Windows Vista, Windows 95 and Windows 3.1. Definitely not necessary, but doable with a boot loader. So in essence, Cliff has added a 'boot loader' to the firmware, so you can easily switch modelling versions. However, unlike my OS analogy, it only takes a couple of minutes to rollback modelling versions in the Axe-Fx, without the 'boot loader', unlike the hour or more it would take to re-install Windows OS versions each time.

So, in my opinion, XL/XL+ users are not really losing any features, you can still rollback modelling versions in a couple of minutes...which in my opinion, with Q4.x is not necessary anyway, it's so easy to dial-in tones now without tweaking advanced parameters.

I see it as a win-win, not a win-lose.

You got a point, I agree with you!

 

[chucma]

Apologies if this was asked and answered earlier and I missed it: At the current rate of progress, how long before the XL+ models also run out of capacity for firmware upgrades? I'm a Mark II owner who would consider upgrading to a new model, but I'd hate to make an expensive switch and then realize the runway even for the latest version is fairly short.

@Vede, here is your answer about the XL+:

Yes, but it's in the thousands. However we are approaching the firmware size limit for the Mark I/II version. This may be the last firmware for the Mark I/II because there isn't anymore space left in the boot ROM.

 

[5150]

You can absolutely & literally DROP JAWS with the tones & effects in this box both recorded & live.

Not with my playing!

 

[JfT]

I'm happy with the last firmware, can live with it... BUT if you ask me I will prefer throw away the old FW options for the benefit to have the last version (I always use lastest version, if you want old FW then install that old FW). For me it's useless...

+1 for removing old modeling versions

 

[jpelzel]

MkII owner here. Just wanted to say thanks for what it is and thanks for loving your own product as you do.

That said, are there really that many more amps in the world that just couldn't be built on the rig itself with all of its available parameters? With all the bias', tubes, positions, flipflaps, and garden gnomes in there I'm in doubt that you couldn't.

 

[Ruth_vyron]

wiiii thanks FAS team! Aguante Fractal vieja!

 

[Jimmytwotimes]

Amen, the only reason anyone couldn't find a number of stunningly sublime tones is user error/learning curve.

You can absolutely & literally DROP JAWS with the tones & effects in this box both recorded & live.

I was going to once add up all the amps dollar value & I didn't even get 1/2 way and was well over one hundred grand, WELL over it. Forget about getting into cab values etc.
Even a $29.99 cab pack is a fuckin steal.

I dunno man, to me any way ya can possibly slice it, I just don't see any possible way anyone could bitch about it.. I find it insulting to be honest.

Makes me wonder - when the I/II's came out - were people expecting to receive an unlimited amount of free upgrades forever? or were they buying them because they could get a great tone out of the box - regardless if there were any updates ?
This thing is a computer - throughout your lifetime, and I know there are a variety of age groups here, but how many computers have you bought in a lifetime because of upgrades, outdated etc? I know I can count around 6 or 7...
With Q 4 - if there were never any further updates - you can STILL get pretty much any guitar tone you can imagine. PLUS effects...
Guitarists have been using the same tones forever - and they're still good... So as long as this thing keeps working, I am more than happy...

 

[acidfrost]

People keep talking about the modeling. Yes the modeling is awesome. But what about when new effects and pedals come out and we can't get them? The Ax8, which people paid half of the price of an axe-fx will get them but not us? This is where it sucks for us.

 

[bdrepko]

No offense but,
I think people interjecting who don't have the issue is justified considering cliff has clearly stated that he can't make changes like the changes suggested to only one segment of units because they share the same code.
Therefore when the suggestions being offered now mean the people who don't have the issue will lose features, they feel a need to interject. XL/XL+ users shouldn't have to give up features just so the MK I/II users can hang on for another couple of firmware updates.

I am sure a lot of the people saying "just go out an buy an XL+" would also be up in arms if Fractal came out with an Axe FX3 tomorrow and said they wouldn't support Axe FX2 FW anymore.

 

[acidfrost]

This thing is a computer - throughout your lifetime, and I know there are a variety of age groups here, but how many computers have you bought in a lifetime because of upgrades, outdated etc? I know I can count around 6 or 7...

I have the same computer I had 10 years ago. Whenever something is outdated or needs upgrade, I upgrade that component. I don't shell out 3000$ (Yes I'm in Canada, gotta calculate shipping and customs), for a new one. I buy a new component for a couple hundred bucks.

If we could just change the rom for a couple hundreds, I'm sure most mk1/2 users would do so.

 

[Rotti]

I didn't read every response, so maybe someone has already said this (and maybe someone else has already told that person why it wouldn't work)...

...but it seems to me like the natural solution is to advance I/II FW updates with the older modeling option in place as long as the available space will support it, and once that has been extinguished, continue future FW updates without the older modeling option. That takes the I/II as far as it can possibly go.

Eventually, even after removing the older modeling option, the I/II will still run out of space for future FW. At that time, presumably, the XL/+ would still have room to grow, and the option could be reintroduced if so desired.

Like a few others have said, this box is about pushing limits. I say full steam ahead!