Axe Fx II, It's not Hype (IMO)

It won't, if the judge is acting fairly and rationally in accordance with the rules. But if the original Axe-Fx deserved a "9.5," as a number of users claimed (and I tend to agree), then the notion of even a single dramatic improvement - not to mention literally dozens of them - stretches credulity, don't you think?

Well I imagine that is a combination of some overrating, a false scale , and a continualy rising technology ceiling. I always, and remember I am a rookie here with limited "ears", found the whole % of accuracy with regards to emulating tube amps kinda silly when the amps themselves can vary among the same product line. Starting just a couple years ago with such a limited ear for what is what beyond the basic Fernder, Vox, Marshall tones to begin with, I have have found the Ultra to be a remarkable tool in both learning the history of the classic tones as well as trying to dial them in. So my scale has shifted in that regard. What I truly love about the Axe myself is the infinite possibilities to create your own new "classic" tone.

And as a side note. I have yet to meet a judge or ref who was rational. :)
 
Nowadays, folks hit the ground with all their guns a blazing behind a anonymous screen name, and then play the martyr card at a drop of a hat once they get blow-back for whatever they posted (normally negative). They can then slap the 'fan boi' label on everyone without hesitation and laugh about it on their own home forum (usually on a counter board) with out even blinking. Trolling, baiting, all sorts of nuances to the formula; but it's common. Go check any fitness, sports, camera, car enthusiast, gamer, etc.. forum and watch it. Any popular general interest forum will exhibit this in an almost constant, churning cycle.

Sadly, decorum and respect seem less common these days, or maybe it's just that use of the Internet is more widespread. I have noticed that forums for higher priced items tend to be better in that regard, but that's not always the case. The Fractal Forum is very different these days from what it was in the beginning. It was a niche product then, and those who plugged in were pursuing something and they were passionate about that pursuit. Today we have more of what you describe above going on. It is the way these things evolve, and I've seen the same happen in other forums. It means there is a lot more "noise" to wade through to get to the meaty stuff than before.

The 'flavor of the month' club is another way to oversimplify and categorize folks you don't agree with in a condescending manner. For an on topic review of it, go back to my "It's a Monster..." thread on TGP from 2007. Read the comments starting about the 3rd page and follow the negative responses in particular. You'll see a tremendous volume of such 'ahh, it's just the flavor of the month' as the primary 'knock' I took on that thread (which spawned 3 1000+ sequel threads) throughout. Yet four full years later, it's the same flavor of ice cream for me and many of the naysayers are now pro-Axe-FX owners. FWIW, I have the same boutique PAF pickups in my Melancon since 2006 so... that's 5 years of kool-aid there. :D

I went on stage at church a few weeks ago after service and started talking with a younger player who was noodling with his gear. I asked about the floor processor he was fiddling with and he told me it wasn't his. He said he used an amp because modelers don't sound like the real thing. I thought about asking him which products he had tried, and what he based his opinion on, but I didn't. I will probably bring it up again when I build some relationship with him. He was likely parroting what someone else has told him, with little research on his own. I doubt he's even heard about the AxeFX. However, his statement was definitive, and at some point it may mislead another player.

I spend time on Internet forums to learn. I'm an information hound, and I like to know as much as I can about a product before making a buying decision. That extends to how to use it. I also like to contribute and give back where I can, but I'll admit that many of my posts are questions.

With that context naysayers, such as those in your example and my young friend, are barriers and can do considerable damage. That's not a reflection on them as people, just a statement in the context of the pursuit of knowledge. The issue is magnified when one is trying to understand and assess leading edge product.

In the same manner, but at the other end of the spectrum, are those who bubble over with excitement and overstate things. Their views also contains inaccuracies, but the exchange is more positive and pleasant.

I think there are two flavours. There are those who get excited about a product without making proper comparisons or working with it enough. Because they are flamboyant and vocal they influence others, who then "jump on the bandwagon". I have joined a bandwagon or two, and have pickups that are OK, but no where near what I expected. When the next thing comes along they, and the herd, begin the next pursuit, and the cycle continues. Proper evaluation techniques are key, or you will continue to jump from bandwagon to bandwagon.

The second flavour are those who get excited about a product, who express that excitement with flamboyance, but who actually do their homework. They may be overstating things, but there is truth at the core. The question then is about degrees; about how close to the stated opinion does it really come.

It is difficult to find honest and accurate information & advice on the Internet. We have access to so much more now then we ever used to, yet finding the nuggets is arguably harder. The truth is in the midst of all of the above, and of course you'll never really know until you try it out for yourself. In the end we have to assess what we get with our "ears", not our "eyes".

Thanks.

Terry.
 
Sadly, decorum and respect seem less common these days, or maybe it's just that use of the Internet is more widespread. I have noticed that forums for higher priced items tend to be better in that regard, but that's not always the case. The Fractal Forum is very different these days from what it was in the beginning. It was a niche product then, and those who plugged in were pursuing something and they were passionate about that pursuit. Today we have more of what you describe above going on. It is the way these things evolve, and I've seen the same happen in other forums. It means there is a lot more "noise" to wade through to get to the meaty stuff than before.



I went on stage at church a few weeks ago after service and started talking with a younger player who was noodling with his gear. I asked about the floor processor he was fiddling with and he told me it wasn't his. He said he used an amp because modelers don't sound like the real thing. I thought about asking him which products he had tried, and what he based his opinion on, but I didn't. I will probably bring it up again when I build some relationship with him. He was likely parroting what someone else has told him, with little research on his own. I doubt he's even heard about the AxeFX. However, his statement was definitive, and at some point it may mislead another player.

I spend time on Internet forums to learn. I'm an information hound, and I like to know as much as I can about a product before making a buying decision. That extends to how to use it. I also like to contribute and give back where I can, but I'll admit that many of my posts are questions.

With that context naysayers, such as those in your example and my young friend, are barriers and can do considerable damage. That's not a reflection on them as people, just a statement in the context of the pursuit of knowledge. The issue is magnified when one is trying to understand and assess leading edge product.

In the same manner, but at the other end of the spectrum, are those who bubble over with excitement and overstate things. Their views also contains inaccuracies, but the exchange is more positive and pleasant.

I think there are two flavours. There are those who get excited about a product without making proper comparisons or working with it enough. Because they are flamboyant and vocal they influence others, who then "jump on the bandwagon". I have joined a bandwagon or two, and have pickups that are OK, but no where near what I expected. When the next thing comes along they, and the herd, begin the next pursuit, and the cycle continues. Proper evaluation techniques are key, or you will continue to jump from bandwagon to bandwagon.

The second flavour are those who get excited about a product, who express that excitement with flamboyance, but who actually do their homework. They may be overstating things, but there is truth at the core. The question then is about degrees; about how close to the stated opinion does it really come.

It is difficult to find honest and accurate information & advice on the Internet. We have access to so much more now then we ever used to, yet finding the nuggets is arguably harder. The truth is in the midst of all of the above, and of course you'll never really know until you try it out for yourself. In the end we have to assess what we get with our "ears", not our "eyes".

Thanks.

Terry.

Err.. "and of course you'll never really know until you try it out for yourself". That was all the original poster stated and his principal point
 
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I'm sorry, but I do have to say that this is one of the dumbest pieces of advice I've heard in terms of music gear ever. A huge number of Axefx users are ABSOLUTELY interested in how this thing will sound recorded. There's no more brutally honest way to hear how a piece of gear really sounds than to play back the performance when one is not playing the guitar etc. This is especially true for a direct recording because so many variables are removed from the equation as opposed to the usual amp, cab, mic, mic pre etc.
Unless people on these clips are doing a ton of post processing, and they aren't to my knowledge, then clips are exactly what I want to hear. The only thing a clip won't do is allow the listener to "feel" the amp's/modeller's reaction while actually playing. Other than that, your advice to not listen to clips is really just ridiculous. You may be an electrical engineer, but your review and commentary sounded more like the uninformed blabbering of an 8th grader trying real hard to sound credible.

cheers,
Steve

True Steve - I am primarily interested in Axe 2 as a recording device .

Just heard a clip by Mark Day that sounded like it was recorded very loud but it was DIRECT via USB ! ( not apogee converters etc. nothing fancy )

I'm really liking a much higher % of clips from Axe 2 than axe 1- with some of them being nearly perfect for what they are - meaning - "I wouldn't change a thing." that's some real world class recorded tone(s ) so I'm getting very impressed with Axe 2- I don't care about the Eventide guy - but you made very good points about recording.
 
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I was able to audition the device today at the NY/NJ show. 4 of us heard it; one of us is very interested in this device and wanted our opinions. I must state up front that while my friend plays guitar, the rest of us played other instruments. 2 of us have done sound professionally; I am also an electrical engineer who made his first midi device in the 1980s. Just trying to give the background of the 3 of us giving our unbiased views. We compared it to the equivalent Eventide device, about 2000 dollars.

All three of us were disappointed. This was the "ultimate" setting for a presentation since, I assume, it was presented in an optimum way. Yes, this is a state of the art device. Yes, the technological strides made are very impressive. But you can really hear the difference between this and the real thing. Also, the effects lacked depth and sounded thin when compared to the Eventide. It was flat and thin. Lots of digital 'stuff' in there. I wonder if it would have sounded better without the modeling and just the effects. (The Eventide does not do amp modeling.) We didn't go back and check that. But, there are advantages. If you are into certain types of music, this does a very nice job. And let's face it, the reduced weight is a big plus. If you do it right, you can cut tons of wires and carry lots less. That reduces potential mishaps during gigs. And, if you need the sound of many types of amps, this could be adequate. And I wonder whether the phenomenon of masking makes my criticisms moot.

I know many people may disagree with me, and perhaps vehemently. Hey, if you like it, buy it. I merely suggest that you hear it first. Do not listen to recordings. Hear it for yourself.

It seems you are much more experienced than me; however, your brain can play tricks on you when you don't do a true comparison in a controlled environment. Just "seeing and knowing" it's the Axe-Fx in front of you will change what you hear. Watch this video before you draw conclusions (it's long but I promise it's worth it - try to keep an open mind):

YouTube - ‪Audio Myths Workshop‬‏

I bet you a beer that if I had a few weeks with the Axe II and a quality power amp and speakers like the ones in your amp, that I could successfully model the tone such that in a double blind test you could not tell the difference. You have make these comparisons carefully and without bias or the brain will do things you almost can't believe. The video above explains why.
 
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