Axe-Fx II Firmware Version 12.04 Public Beta

plyall said:
I agree - I can detect NO change in sound when changing the tube types - subtle or otherwise. Posted this a few days back.

If someone does detect a change in sound, would they mind detailing what they changed and what they heard so I/we can try and hear it as well?
Click to expand...


Try taking some of the simpler circuits and throwing the 300B in there. I actually managed to break the Princeton model when I changed it to a 300B. Sounded like the poor amp coughing up its lungs. It definitely changes things; I suspect you'll hear more of a difference in the simpler circuits vs. the more complex ones. It doesn't seem to change the headroom, though, which was what I would expect moving from a 6V6 to KT88.
 
It's not like changing power tubes in an amp. It's like changing the tubes and the transformer and the phase inverter. The "power tubes" are "normalized" so that the transformer doesn't get all funky and the phase inverter blows up or something.

If you were to take an amp with 6L6's and change to EL34's AND change the transformer so that it was matched to the speakers you wouldn't hear much difference. Problem is people change power tubes and don't change the transformer which causes an impedance mismatch. That is what you are hearing. A pair of EL34's wants to see about 3200 ohms. A pair of 6L6's wants to see about 4000 ohms. If you just swap tubes you are significantly mismatched which changes the operating points. When you change power tubes in the Axe-Fx the impedance matching stays the same (as set by the Transformer Match) parameter. It's always matched (or mismatched if you altered the Xfrmr Match value).

So it is subtle but definitely audible and even more tactile. I can hear it all over the new recordings people are doing. The big name artists are really digging it (more to come on that but these guys know tone subtleties and they're freaking out).
 
FractalAudio said:
My Shiva has 6L6s.
Click to expand...
Well that explains it!
;)
I took Rosh's statement about the Anni Shiva having KT88s as fact. I checked the Wiki Amp List and sure enough - says 6L6's right there!
My 6L6 Shiva has 60 watts and will melt your face off - your Anni has 90 - That is a beast. Sweet sounding Model - Love it.
 
FractalAudio said:
It's not like changing power tubes in an amp. It's like changing the tubes and the transformer and the phase inverter. The "power tubes" are "normalized" so that the transformer doesn't get all funky and the phase inverter blows up or something.

If you were to take an amp with 6L6's and change to EL34's AND change the transformer so that it was matched to the speakers you wouldn't hear much difference. Problem is people change power tubes and don't change the transformer which causes an impedance mismatch. That is what you are hearing. A pair of EL34's wants to see about 3200 ohms. A pair of 6L6's wants to see about 4000 ohms. If you just swap tubes you are significantly mismatched which changes the operating points. When you change power tubes in the Axe-Fx the impedance matching stays the same (as set by the Transformer Match) parameter. It's always matched (or mismatched if you altered the Xfrmr Match value).

So it is subtle but definitely audible and even more tactile. I can hear it all over the new recordings people are doing. The big name artists are really digging it (more to come on that but these guys know tone subtleties and they're freaking out).
Click to expand...

If memory serves, the 50 watt jcm marshall primary Z was about 3400, but the jtm primary z was much higher...like 6k, I think. Also the trainwreck types have a much higher primary Z. It seems to me that if we want to really experience the sound of mismatched tube/transformer circuits, there are already amps modeled with this character. Or, just adjust the transformer match parameter.
 
xpenno said:
Just back from rehearsal, I just can't get over the difference with this new update. Wall to wall smiles from me and rest of the band, sounded f'ing superb!

That's all.
Click to expand...
So, back on the Axe again Spence ? Not playing your Marshall JTV ? :)
 
Last edited:
If anyone remember Behringer V-Amp, it did not matter if you played a Tele or Les Paul. It all sounded the same.

In my my old Roadking II i could change between 6L6 and EL34 on the fly. Was the same thing there. Not a world difference, but the response changed just a little so it would be right. And pushing the MV made it more obvious.
But changing from a Marhall cab to a Mesa cab was much more effective to get the Mesa or Marshall sound. Just like ir's.

To me, just the fact that i can feel and hear these small subtle changes is amazing. It's the small and subtle things that separates this from the rest.
And that's why this product is so extremly good imho.
 
just tried some extreme settings with some amps and found a sound I'm getting in love with.

the shiva lead with master and the master trim maxed and the drive really low.

Its amazing with my strat, to me of course
 
To me, just the fact that i can feel and hear these small subtle changes is amazing. It's the small and subtle things that separates this from the rest.
Click to expand...

The best way for me to sense the little changes is when I meet with the band and we play our usual songs, I'm expecting a specific band sound and suddenly I hear something very different, it's much more noticed rather than play alone and try to feel it.
 
kerrlehr said:
Well that explains it!
;)
I took Rosh's statement about the Anni Shiva having KT88s as fact. I checked the Wiki Amp List and sure enough - says 6L6's right there!
My 6L6 Shiva has 60 watts and will melt your face off - your Anni has 90 - That is a beast. Sweet sounding Model - Love it.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was talking about the real life counterpart. Didn't know if it was a oversight or if cliff modeled the 6L6 version. There so many iterations of the shiva and tube types. Even my real shiva isn't "stock" from the factory.

And yes. It's a beast. :) The axe is scary close at a fraction of the weight.
 
Roadrunner said:
The best way for me to sense the little changes is when I meet with the band and we play our usual songs, I'm expecting a specific band sound and suddenly I hear something very different, it's much more noticed rather than play alone and try to feel it.
Click to expand...

This, exactly! I could tell there was a difference when I started playing with the amps, but the reality of the changes really started to hit me when I started mixing with the firmware (since I'm only recording at this point in my musical life). Before, I could get a sense of power and top-end sizzle, but there was always just the slightest touch of woof in the lows and hiss in the highs, even with appropriate amp settings. When I loaded in this FW the first thing I noticed is that the hiss and the woof were gone - but also that my go-to high gain amp didn't cut through the mix anymore. So I adjusted some things - turned up the MV just a bit (from 2.5-3.15), turned the gain up a smidge (from like 1 to 1.15), turned up the LF Res like a lot of people were reporting, and also changed some drive pedal interactions (because I found the TS drives interacted with the new amp modeling a whole lot nicer). Then BAM!!!

Suddenly I was getting the best mixed high gain guitar sound I've gotten so far. And it was the same deal with my bass guitar. Everything is just a touch more sonorous in all the right ways, so when all those components come together, those "subtle" things make an absolutely huge difference. I'm stoked to see what things are up the Fractal sleeves for the actual release!
 
FractalAudio said:
It's not like changing power tubes in an amp. It's like changing the tubes and the transformer and the phase inverter. The "power tubes" are "normalized" so that the transformer doesn't get all funky and the phase inverter blows up or something.

If you were to take an amp with 6L6's and change to EL34's AND change the transformer so that it was matched to the speakers you wouldn't hear much difference. Problem is people change power tubes and don't change the transformer which causes an impedance mismatch. That is what you are hearing. A pair of EL34's wants to see about 3200 ohms. A pair of 6L6's wants to see about 4000 ohms. If you just swap tubes you are significantly mismatched which changes the operating points. When you change power tubes in the Axe-Fx the impedance matching stays the same (as set by the Transformer Match) parameter. It's always matched (or mismatched if you altered the Xfrmr Match value).


So it is subtle but definitely audible and even more tactile. I can hear it all over the new recordings people are doing. The big name artists are really digging it (more to come on that but these guys know tone subtleties and they're freaking out).
Click to expand...


I pride myself on having bad ass tone, and I am telling you, I am freaking out, this just tones, feels so sick that I still can't get over it hahaha. I can imagine, this, plus having those improved Ir's you were talking about months back, Once the Ir's improvements drop, I might have to tell the wife I am going on super long vacation with my Axe II so her and I can bond HAHAHA.
 
I've rehearsed with it yesterday, bases on some presets I made during the week on Behringer Truths. On those, in my living room, I have the sound and feel of the amps I used, at living room level. That equals hours and hours of fun, without my worn ears getting tired.

These patches translated to FRFR at loud volumes don't work at all: boomy and spicky. So, I've drastically reduced bass, treble and presence, added mids, and use the hi cut on both amp and cab models somewhere round 6-7 k.
That works perfectly at those settings. I'll see how that translates to the living room setup this evening.
The factory presets tear my ears right off with FRFR.

Conclusion: it's all there in the box. By using my ears and tweaking, I can get any amp I ever dreamed of, and some I never heard of. That's pretty awesome.
 
FractalAudio said:
It's not like changing power tubes in an amp. It's like changing the tubes and the transformer and the phase inverter. The "power tubes" are "normalized" so that the transformer doesn't get all funky and the phase inverter blows up or something.

If you were to take an amp with 6L6's and change to EL34's AND change the transformer so that it was matched to the speakers you wouldn't hear much difference. Problem is people change power tubes and don't change the transformer which causes an impedance mismatch. That is what you are hearing. A pair of EL34's wants to see about 3200 ohms. A pair of 6L6's wants to see about 4000 ohms. If you just swap tubes you are significantly mismatched which changes the operating points. When you change power tubes in the Axe-Fx the impedance matching stays the same (as set by the Transformer Match) parameter. It's always matched (or mismatched if you altered the Xfrmr Match value).

So it is subtle but definitely audible and even more tactile. I can hear it all over the new recordings people are doing. The big name artists are really digging it (more to come on that but these guys know tone subtleties and they're freaking out).
Click to expand...

So folks can change the Transformer Match to emulate the mismatch? What setting would be the equivalent of 3200 ohms compared to 6000 ohms (or any other setting)?

P.S. Just had my first 12.04b practice and the low end was thumping like crazy (in a good way)... using the Freytte M (?) and that is my favorite for live and TM'ing. Great freakin' job on this (and every update you) release! Thanks a bunch Cliff!
 
FractalAudio said:
It's not like changing power tubes in an amp. It's like changing the tubes and the transformer and the phase inverter. The "power tubes" are "normalized" so that the transformer doesn't get all funky and the phase inverter blows up or something.

If you were to take an amp with 6L6's and change to EL34's AND change the transformer so that it was matched to the speakers you wouldn't hear much difference. Problem is people change power tubes and don't change the transformer which causes an impedance mismatch. That is what you are hearing. A pair of EL34's wants to see about 3200 ohms. A pair of 6L6's wants to see about 4000 ohms. If you just swap tubes you are significantly mismatched which changes the operating points. When you change power tubes in the Axe-Fx the impedance matching stays the same (as set by the Transformer Match) parameter. It's always matched (or mismatched if you altered the Xfrmr Match value).

So it is subtle but definitely audible and even more tactile. I can hear it all over the new recordings people are doing. The big name artists are really digging it (more to come on that but these guys know tone subtleties and they're freaking out).
Click to expand...

Looking forward to this when the time comes Cliff. Thanks! :)
 
fremen said:
So, back on the Axe again Spence ? Not playing your Marshall JTV ? :)
Click to expand...

No, with the mods I've done it's a killer amp for sure but with the mods that Cliff has done to the AxeFX in these last couple of updates as well as a power amp upgrade, I now have hundreds of killer amps and all of the effects I could every need all in 3u (maybe 4u if I decide to go for the 1600w amp).

For the first time in my Axe history, I think that if Cliff turned around and said that's it I'm done with FW updates, then I would remain a happy man. Don't get me wrong FW updates are like crack to me but the tones, feel, usability, tones, portability and tones that I'm getting from this box now make me smile and inspire me to play.

Spence
 
Morphosis said:
Remember your words over two years ago, based on GEN1? :




:mrgreen
Click to expand...


I'm quite sure I've said something more incriminating than that in the last few year ;)

Back in the day I was running FRFR and was comparing my rig to a miced cab not a "traditional" amp/cab setup. I had to use significant filtering to get to where I wanted to be. With the intro of Axe2 and Matrix amps I decided to go amp/cab and something just wasn't right. I owned a Kemper and a Multiamp both of which I found it easier to get tones that worked for me and that fit into a band context more easily. Now the Axe rules supreme IMHO.

P.s. that clips doesn't sound great looking back ;)

Spence
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom