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Axe-Fx II Firmware 15.00 Public Beta

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
RTFRN ;) ;)
"Fixed wrong Input Drive taper [...] in 5153 Red amp model."

I have a few 5153 Red presets with a Drive setting of approx. 2 in FW14.02. With 15.00b I have to raise the Drive to approx. 4 to get the same result. Could this be due to the new taper?
Yes. I had the taper set as a Log10A but it's actually a Log5A. This means you have to increase the Drive to get the same response. It's simply a taper change though. Going from 2 to 4 sounds about right.

The values mean this in a log taper pot:
Log10A = logarithmic response, 10% at midpoint, audio taper. What this means is that the pot is not linear in its response. At midpoint (50% rotation) the value between the wiper and the ground terminal will be 10% of the pot value. So a 1 Megohm pot set to noon will have 100K between the wiper and ground.

I incorrectly had the taper set to Log10A which meant that at noon there was 20 dB of attenuation. The correct taper is Log5A which means at noon there is 26 dB of attenuation. So you need to turn the knob up to get the same gain.

This amp model has a bright cap so as you turn the gain down (which is effectively what happened by changing the taper) you get less gain and more highs. So "jingle, jangle, indy sound" is a likely result if you don't turn the gain up to compensate.

Note that taper only affects the response of the knob vs. position. It doesn't affect anything else. It just means that to get the same response you need to put the knob in a different position. Amp designers use tapers to voice their amps. It's not that it actually voices the amp though. It's because people dial in amps with their eyes. Human nature is to put the knobs near noon. We are reticent to deviate much from noon. Amp designers exploit this and use different tapers to change the sound of their amps WITH THE KNOBS AT NOON. A prime example are Bogner amps. Everyone says "Bogner amps are dark". No they aren't. But he uses a Log10A taper for the treble pot. It's a standard Marshall tone stack. Usually a linear taper pot is used for the treble. The treble knob at 5.0 (noon) on a Bogner is equivalent to the treble knob at 1.0 on a Marshall. People put the knob at 5.0 and go "wow, this amp is dark". No it isn't. If you turned the treble up to 8 or 9 it would sound a lot like a Plexi but humans are reticent to turn the knobs to extremes. Amp designers know this and exploit it to give their amps a "signature sound".

The more you know...
 

Zwiebelchen

Fractal Fanatic
Master volume has always and still does reset to default with reselection of amps!
It does not. I just tried it. Maybe you did something different? Did you save after changing to a different amp model and then re-selected the old one? If I just tap up and down once, the MV does not reset on my unit.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
It does not. I just tried it. Maybe you did something different? Did you save after changing to a different amp model and then re-selected the old one? If I just tap up and down once, the MV does not reset on my unit.
I think you are confusing Output Level with Master Volume. Master Volume is always set to a default value when an amp model is selected (or reselected).

Or you are confusing selecting (and reselecting) an amp model with selecting a preset. To select an amp model you go to the first page of the Amp block menu and choose one of the nearly 200 amp models with the navigation buttons or Value knob.
 

Zwiebelchen

Fractal Fanatic
It's highly likely.
Ah... come on, don't give me that. You really dialed in values like 4.27 as a default on some amps? I don't think so. ;)

I mean... it's your code, you know what you did there, so who am I to question it, but it would be a huge coincidence that no single preset I resetted actually had a non-default MV.

I think you are confusing Output Level with Master Volume. Master Volume is always set to a default value when an amp model is selected (or reselected).

Or you are confusing selecting (and reselecting) an amp model with selecting a preset. To select an amp model you go to the first page of the Amp block menu and choose one of the nearly 200 amp models with the navigation buttons or Value knob.
I know that and I'm 110% positive that it was the Master Volume. And yes, as soon as I select a different amp model, the MV gets defaulted to the specific model's value. But as soon as I go back to the initial amp model, I get the value back that I dialed in before.

I also felt this was strange (considering that presence, depth and the switches DID got properly reset), but this was definitely what I observed! Unless some amp models default to values like 3.15 or 4.27, then it's definitely not the default value.

And no I did not confuse reselecting a preset/scene or whatever for re-selecting the amp model.
 
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FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Ah... come on, don't give me that. You really dialed in values like 4.27 as a default on some amps? I don't think so. ;)

I mean... it's your code, you know what you did there, so who am I to question it, but it would be a huge coincidence that no single preset I resetted actually had a non-default MV.
No, 4.27 is not a default value. I don't know what you are doing but you are obviously not resetting the amp block correctly. I suggest you take some time to read the manual and the release notes and get to know how to select an amp model. See my post above on selecting an amp model vs selecting a preset. The two are not the same.

That attitude is not required. We are here to help you.
 

Zwiebelchen

Fractal Fanatic
No, 4.27 is not a default value. I don't know what you are doing but you are obviously not resetting the amp block correctly. I suggest you take some time to read the manual and the release notes and get to know how to select an amp model. See my post above on selecting an amp model vs selecting a preset. The two are not the same.

That attitude is not required. We are here to help you.
Wasn't being offensive, just saying what I observed.

What I'm doing, just to rule out any further misunderstandings is this:
I edit the amp block, I scroll to the leftmost tab where it lists all amp models. I hit "up", the small preview on the right side shows that MV, Level and Gain changed. Then I hit "down", the preview shows the old values again. Presence, Depth and the switches did reset. MV is at the value I dialed it in before.

I mean; I could be wrong and maybe my memory is playing tricks on me and I always used default MVs, but that's what happened. Just to go perfectly sure, I will double-check this again as soon as I get back to my unit. If it turns out I really used defaults only, then my apologies, but if not, I'll make sure to take pictures of the process.
 
Last edited:

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Wasn't being offensive, just saying what I observed.

What I'm doing, just to rule out any further misunderstandings is this:
I edit the amp block, I scroll to the leftmost tab where it lists all amp models. I hit "up", the small preview on the right side shows that MV, Level and Gain changed. Then I hit "down", the preview shows the old values again.
That is correct. Do you have Axe-Edit running? Perhaps that is trying to restore the preset.

The only knob that should change is MV. Drive and Level will not change.
 

Zwiebelchen

Fractal Fanatic
That is correct. Do you have Axe-Edit running? Perhaps that is trying to restore the preset.

The only knob that should change is MV. Drive and Level will not change.
Nope, didn't have Axe Edit running. But I'll take another look, just to go sure. Maybe I used a scene modifier on it or something that might have prevented the parameter from properly resetting.
 

Black Bitch

Fractal Fanatic
A note to those who are struggling to get their "sound" back, you really have to be careful to make notes of all of the little advanced parameter setting and GEQ settings, as well as the MV settings from your FW14 preset. If you had tweaked the bejesus out of your AMP then resetting to default values with just your B,M,T and Drive settings remaining will not get you there. I really stress that, if you can before you reset the amp, copy the x state to the y state and then you can easily toggle back and forth. To all of those guys saying "just tweak it by ear dude!" you ain't helpin' matters. A specific example of why someone might really need to get all of the advanced parameters exactly right is when it is for a tonematch preset. I just ran into this on a tonematch preset I did. I had tweaked nearly every advanced parameter and all were wiped away with the reset. Perhaps digging way into the advanced parameters isn't the way to "get your tone" but in this case it was the only way and I needed to get them all back. Using the X Y trick worked for me anyway.
I've noticed that aswell - I tried my tweaked FW 14 Presets only adjusting the MV and gain and sounded nice. But then took a look at the advenced parameters and allmost all where changed now. So put every parameter on paper and retweaked everything. Wow, what difference it made - much mor open, clear and defined. I did about 10 of them now and every single one where I thought it sound good, sounds now much better. Its worth the time to do this - I'll do only my best patches, because now you can start aswell new patches with the factory Presets. There sound great right from th spot! Thanks Cliff and FAS Team :encouragement:
 

Andrew Male

Experienced
Loving v15, the gain on the non-MV amps (AC30 etc) sounds really natural now, it blooms where before it fizzed, it also seems to be more controlled, if that makes any sense at all.

Really happy as I mostly use the non-MV amps. With the 1x12 ultra res alnico cab the tone is to die for.

Really awesome work Fractal! :encouragement:
 
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Black Bitch

Fractal Fanatic
Yes. I had the taper set as a Log10A but it's actually a Log5A. This means you have to increase the Drive to get the same response. It's simply a taper change though. Going from 2 to 4 sounds about right.

The values mean this in a log taper pot:
Log10A = logarithmic response, 10% at midpoint, audio taper. What this means is that the pot is not linear in its response. At midpoint (50% rotation) the value between the wiper and the ground terminal will be 10% of the pot value. So a 1 Megohm pot set to noon will have 100K between the wiper and ground.

I incorrectly had the taper set to Log10A which meant that at noon there was 20 dB of attenuation. The correct taper is Log5A which means at noon there is 26 dB of attenuation. So you need to turn the knob up to get the same gain.

This amp model has a bright cap so as you turn the gain down (which is effectively what happened by changing the taper) you get less gain and more highs. So "jingle, jangle, indy sound" is a likely result if you don't turn the gain up to compensate.

Note that taper only affects the response of the knob vs. position. It doesn't affect anything else. It just means that to get the same response you need to put the knob in a different position. Amp designers use tapers to voice their amps. It's not that it actually voices the amp though. It's because people dial in amps with their eyes. Human nature is to put the knobs near noon. We are reticent to deviate much from noon. Amp designers exploit this and use different tapers to change the sound of their amps WITH THE KNOBS AT NOON. A prime example are Bogner amps. Everyone says "Bogner amps are dark". No they aren't. But he uses a Log10A taper for the treble pot. It's a standard Marshall tone stack. Usually a linear taper pot is used for the treble. The treble knob at 5.0 (noon) on a Bogner is equivalent to the treble knob at 1.0 on a Marshall. People put the knob at 5.0 and go "wow, this amp is dark". No it isn't. If you turned the treble up to 8 or 9 it would sound a lot like a Plexi but humans are reticent to turn the knobs to extremes. Amp designers know this and exploit it to give their amps a "signature sound".

The more you know...
I'm from the "old days" we're used to turn almost every knob on our Marshalls to ten - we're called it the "The British Settings" take your arm above all kn obs and turn them all from left to right....:devilish:
 
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Black Bitch

Fractal Fanatic
It does not. I just tried it. Maybe you did something different? Did you save after changing to a different amp model and then re-selected the old one? If I just tap up and down once, the MV does not reset on my unit.
it does on my AXE FX II..........MV goes to default
 

Black Bitch

Fractal Fanatic
When I do the amp reset for the time now untill the new Axe Edit is there - I allways turn off the Axe Edit and do the amp reset on the Frontpanel nad save it with the front panel?
 

Kriig

Fractal Fanatic
I have still not tried one amp in FW15b that sounds bad.. Highs and lows in better. But i still feel the mids somehow got the most out of this. I love FW14 too, but the mids in particular is just right.
Yesterday evening i did put up a RCB+TS808mod into a Super Reverb and the Division IR + tape delay and plate reverb and hit Hendrix "All along the watchtower" sound... Engage the Univibe and my Vox Wah.. Goosebumpshumps...

I've said before that i don't know what could be better in the amps... But there it is.. FW15.

If you can't get any of the amps sound sound good with VERY simple twists of the usual BMTP knobs, you must have something wrong in your setup IMHO. Bad headphones, speakers, guitars, fingers or even a bad hair day..
Be sure to have fresh ears though. My ears are ringing (of pleasure) today :D
 
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