Axe-fx II... cabs, what am I doing wrong?

mortega76

mortega76

Fractal Fanatic
I've been through a couple cabs with my Ultra/Axe-fx II...

Line 6 Flextone 4x12 - Custom Celestions - Dark and Muffled (sold years ago)
Marshall 4x12 - Celestion G12T-75 - Dark but agreesive
Marshall 4x12 - Celestion V30 - Bright with no low end
Genz Benz GFlex 2x12 - GBE 1240-V75 - Dark and agressive

Recently our new 2nd guitarist came in with his Dual (or maybe Triple) Recto into my bass player's Signature #4 Jim Root PPC212 Orange 2x12 cab with V30's and it just destroys my Genz Benz with clarity and punch. What's crazy is that when paired with the Genz it kicks even more ass. What's sad is if I tried to sell all three of my cabs, I would probably only make enough to buy one of the Orange cabs... crazy!

Right now I'm running the Genz as my low cab and the Marshall V30 on top and I like that tone but I hate that I have to carry two cabs to accomplish my good tone. I've also paired my two Marshalls together and it sounded awesome too. But as I said, too many cabs to carry around.

I've seen that some cabs are in X pattern with the G12T-75 and V30's... when I tried to do this, you could hear the volume difference between the two cabs. It almost sounded out of phase a bit. I was thinking of take one of each and installing it in the Genz and run it in stereo to be able to manually adjust each cab's volume.

I've also been thinking of going the Seismic Audio 1x15 Coaxial speaker route... maybe two of those.

Thoughts on all of this would be greatly appreciated.
 
Power amp sims on and cab sims off on the Axe I assume? What kind of power amp are you using? I run mine through a closed back 2x12 with a V30 and Creamback 75 with a flat SS power amp, power amp sims and no cab block. It can get plenty bright and has a nice low end thump. I think those two speakers mix really well and they have the same sensitivity so one doesn't overpower the other.
 
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Are you sure your Axe FX has cab sims turned off? I play through a Marshall 4x12 with G-T75s and it is definitely not a dark cab. If anything, it's bright as shit and a little scooped.

Try not making your rig so complicated with multiple cabs. Pick one and dial in your tone with that. If it's not punchy, play around with the Low Resonance on the Speaker tab in the Amp block.

Check out these two threads from Cliff:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/about-speaker-lf-resonance.78003/
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/about-hf-resonance.81121/
 
Thanks for the quick responses...

Yes power amp sim on and cab sim off... I've gone through several power amps. Carvin T something or the other (The one Cliff originally used back in the day), a Carvin D1504L that I blew out on stage last year because they had me plug into a plug that was meant for lights and somehow smoked my power amp. I've used a Peavey PV2600 (crazy heavy) and now I'm using an off brand 1U 600 watt stereo power amp. The sound of each power amp hasn't (generally) affected the sound I'm getting from the cab. I also tried my Axe-fx into a pair of PV215's that just recently sold to my old drummer, the sound was very muffled and had no definition. I'm scared that if I get another PA cab (monitor) setup it will be more of the same, no presence/thump/grind/growl that you get from an actual guitar cab... that in your face sound.

I've played with the resonance and it just seams to go from low to boomy but doesn't give me a better sound... I'll try it again tonight.

Thanks!
 
Paperjace said:
Are you sure your Axe FX has cab sims turned off? I play through a Marshall 4x12 with G-T75s and it is definitely not a dark cab. If anything, it's bright as shit and a little scooped.
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My exact first thought, too. Wish I had more to offer....

One thing I didn't follow in the OP, sorry if I missed it: did you try the Axe rig with the other player's cab and you got good results or were you just impressed with the sound from the other cab with his amp connected to it?

Also, has this always been an issue (darkness, clarity) for you or is it just something that was borne out by the direct comparison?
 
mortega76 said:
Thanks for the quick responses...

Yes power amp sim on and cab sim off... I've gone through several power amps. Carvin T something or the other (The one Cliff originally used back in the day), a Carvin D1504L that I blew out on stage last year because they had me plug into a plug that was meant for lights and somehow smoked my power amp. I've used a Peavey PV2600 (crazy heavy) and now I'm using an off brand 1U 600 watt stereo power amp. The sound of each power amp hasn't (generally) affected the sound I'm getting from the cab. I also tried my Axe-fx into a pair of PV215's that just recently sold to my old drummer, the sound was very muffled and had no definition. I'm scared that if I get another PA cab (monitor) setup it will be more of the same, no presence/thump/grind/growl that you get from an actual guitar cab... that in your face sound.

I've played with the resonance and it just seams to go from low to boomy but doesn't give me a better sound... I'll try it again tonight.

Thanks!
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Yeah, I've tried FRFR and still prefer the punch and feel of a real cab. Adjusting LF speaker resonance can help but it's hard to determine what the resonant frequency of your actual cab is. I've never messed with HF resonance as I've never had an issue with a cab sounding too dark that I couldn't solve with the amp's treble or presence knobs. Do real amps sound dark or muffled to you through the same cabs?
 
I've heard that about the 75's as well... I'm starting to think the wood of the Marshall cab may have a lot more to do with it. Especially since the 2x12 Orange V30 cab sounds thick with mids to die for where my Marshall V30 4x12 has very little lows or mids. I did test it with my Axe-fx with the Recto sim as well.
 
I should add... I'm really just looking for the best all in one cab that has great lows/mids and highs... it may just have to be the Genz with a V30 and 75 especially with it's ports.
 
mortega76 said:
I've heard that about the 75's as well... I'm starting to think the wood of the Marshall cab may have a lot more to do with it. Especially since the 2x12 Orange V30 cab sounds thick with mids to die for where my Marshall V30 4x12 has very little lows or mids. I did test it with my Axe-fx with the Recto sim as well.
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So you ran it with PPC and loved it but just cannot afford that brand/type of cab?
 
I have three 1960B cabs with G12T-75's and they are anything but dark. 2004, 2008, and 2011 years.
I am using a Behringer EPQ 2000 power amp, current setup is my Avatar.

It's funny you mention using a pair of Peavey 215's as I also ran those live using the EPQ 2000 to power them in a small venue (300 people) where they had a crappy FoH. No problems at all, defiantly not muffled... these are full range speakers 700/1400 watt rated @ 4ohms. I ran my presets Stereo with that setup poweramp and cab sims on. Barely ran it 1/2 power and it easily filled the Venue, while running a pair of CLR wedges on stage for monitoring.

here's a sample, recorded with a Boss Micro BR


check your power amp and make sure it's set to full range if it has that setting?
Check your global EQ and make sure it's not the issue?
otherwise, all I can say is it might just be the way you are dialing in your amp block.
 
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I run a pair Friedman 2 x 12 closed cabinets loaded with V30s and love it. They are bright but low and mids are there depending on amp set up. I power them with a matrix GT 1000fx.

Perhaps try a different power amplifier or your buddies orange cabinet?
 
Just a suggestion, but out of the many cabs I've owned (when I was still using physical amps) my Mesa 2x12 closed back sounded amazing. I bought it used from a guy off another forum, years ago and got a killer deal.
 
mortega76 said:
I've been through a couple cabs with my Ultra/Axe-fx II...

Line 6 Flextone 4x12 - Custom Celestions - Dark and Muffled (sold years ago)
Marshall 4x12 - Celestion G12T-75 - Dark but agreesive
Marshall 4x12 - Celestion V30 - Bright with no low end
Genz Benz GFlex 2x12 - GBE 1240-V75 - Dark and agressive

Recently our new 2nd guitarist came in with his Dual (or maybe Triple) Recto into my bass player's Signature #4 Jim Root PPC212 Orange 2x12 cab with V30's and it just destroys my Genz Benz with clarity and punch. What's crazy is that when paired with the Genz it kicks even more ass. What's sad is if I tried to sell all three of my cabs, I would probably only make enough to buy one of the Orange cabs... crazy!

Right now I'm running the Genz as my low cab and the Marshall V30 on top and I like that tone but I hate that I have to carry two cabs to accomplish my good tone. I've also paired my two Marshalls together and it sounded awesome too. But as I said, too many cabs to carry around.

I've seen that some cabs are in X pattern with the G12T-75 and V30's... when I tried to do this, you could hear the volume difference between the two cabs. It almost sounded out of phase a bit. I was thinking of take one of each and installing it in the Genz and run it in stereo to be able to manually adjust each cab's volume.

I've also been thinking of going the Seismic Audio 1x15 Coaxial speaker route... maybe two of those.

Thoughts on all of this would be greatly appreciated.
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Hey Mo, you should go FRFR over the Orange cab. If you haven't tried it, you can come check out the Axe through my CLRs if you want. Another buddy has a Friedman ASM that he's gonna bring over at some point to compare. I was using my Axe through my various cabs before I got the CLR and I couldn't get the sound quite right. As soon as I figured out how to use IRs (especially the new Celestion IRs) with the CLRs, things sound great and I'm not fiddling with the minor adjustments I was always trying to make.
 
Thanks for the information fellas...

Hey there Matt! Long time no see! I'm still trying to make the Axe-fx work when compared to real amps... definitely let me know when you guys get together. Definitely would love to hear the Axe-fx through some good FRFR speakers. I definitely trust your judgement with the kick ass loud amps you run!
 
mortega76 said:
Thanks for the information fellas...

Hey there Matt! Long time no see! I'm still trying to make the Axe-fx work when compared to real amps... definitely let me know when you guys get together. Definitely would love to hear the Axe-fx through some good FRFR speakers. I definitely trust your judgement with the kick ass loud amps you run!
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Yeah. I'll let you know. Was gonna try to set something up later this month. I bought the Axe again on the black Friday deal mainly to use as an FX unit with my amps, but the routing was more compelx than I wanted - so I decided to just keep it for low volume playing at night and figured the CLRs might work - so I ended up buying them. I was never really satisfied with the Axe as being a comparable substitute for a real tube amp until I went full FRFR. It's still not quite the same as me blasting my Wizards through a couple of 412s, but it's the closest I've gotten with the Axe.
 
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