Axe FX II and Kemper Profiler (Yes, another one...please read!)

Thanks for the update!
I would suspect a lot of the standard profiles/presets of both the Kemper and Axe show different tone possibilities but would need to be tweaked to be perfect for the user.
Very subjective, but that is the point.


Totally. These are just impressions right out of the box, but I'll be spending a lot of time early next week doing the adjusting and getting things where they work best for my guitar and ears.
 
I had similar thoughts scrolling through the AFX presets when I first got my standard - It was back in 2008 though, so maybe they have moved on a little. I havent played a preset since then - always my own creations. Im guessing the better profiles on the Kemper are from users/3rd party packs.

Yep, that's my guess too. Most gear needs to be tweaked out of the box for each user's other gear and preferences. But I almost always find it helpful to note down initial impressions.
 
That's the biggest thing for me, with the Axe-Fx I had to learn how to tweak what (i.e. which cabs sounded good with which amps, and also what tonestack settings worked with my guitars/sound). Personally I'm not sure you will nail this in your first session on either product (although with FW18 I've done little to no tweaking). What I'm saying is that for me it was easier to first decide which product suited my needs the best by working out what I needed (not what it sounded like because they both deliver), and I committed to it knowing that there will be a learning curve. Not trying to push a point, but if I had FW18 when I started then my learning curve would have been much quicker, but even then your tone is something personal that you won't find 'straight out of the box' on the first session or two. Oh with FW17 and older I did get my tones as well though.

Totally agree, and FWIW, I wasn't expecting to find my ideal tones right out of the box. Even my Road King, when I first got it, right out of the box the gain channels sounded super muddy and flabby. But now that I've had it dialed in for a few years, it sounds great. Sometimes I forget that right out of the box it had that issue, and it reminds me that I have to tread lightly with the lower-end controls. I noted that in my initial impressions of it. But I certainly didn't hold that against it; it's one of my favorite amps ever.

This thread is a big example of how passionate Cliff and FAS are, and again it is also a big example of how sometimes people can just get a little over-excited and nasty about certain things. Point is, if you ignore the minority, this forum is full of amazing people (Matt, Cliff, Cooper, Chris, Paco, Yek, Clark, Fremen to name only a few) and a hundred others who I haven't noted but are equally great. Just ignore the brutal minority and focus on the good guys and you will never be left alone with your questions.

Yeah, and there are just as many idiotic yahoos over there. For example, this is an actual post someone there posted:

Guys, this thread and the one over at the Fractal forum is a marketing campaign, plain and simple. Our pal mbrown3 (who has been a Fractal forum member since 2008) has scheduled a side by side comparison of the two units with a member of the Fractal forum.
My bold prediction?
Our buddy mbrown3 will compare the factory rigs of the KPA to the AxeFX2 that has been optimized and state "while the KPA is a good unit, with the new Fractal firmware, the AFX2 has really surpassed the Kemper!! and the effects!!! ZOMG!!"

The Fractal forum will erupt with cheers, fist bumps, bro-hugs and collectively say, "I KNEW it!!"
(I also predict that there will be no video of the comparison)

I. Kid. You. Not.
 
Totally agree, and FWIW, I wasn't expecting to find my ideal tones right out of the box. Even my Road King, when I first got it, right out of the box the gain channels sounded super muddy and flabby. But now that I've had it dialed in for a few years, it sounds great. Sometimes I forget that right out of the box it had that issue, and it reminds me that I have to tread lightly with the lower-end controls. I noted that in my initial impressions of it. But I certainly didn't hold that against it; it's one of my favorite amps ever.
Hah! I'm glad you mention that, because when I got my Marshall tube amp it took me over a year to get my sound dialled in but in the end I had great results and love my sound from it. Glad to know others do that too! :)

I. Kid. You. Not.
Heh heh heh!! :D
 
I. Kid. You. Not.

That's s so idiotic it's downright hilarious! Like an iPhone video of a very unscientific comparison from two yahoos in Columbus Ohio will settle the Axe vs. Kemper debate once and for all!

As far as I am concerned, anyone from the Kemper forum in the Columbus area that seriously believes this is a marketing campaign is welcome to come and join us. Just send me a PM and I'll give you the details.
 
What is that guy talking about "optimized" anyway? Choose an amp. Choose a cab (try the Cab Pack 7 factory cab) and play.

Don't fall in to the trap of doing a video. Even with video and audio, anyone can argue that anything sounds better. So it really doesn't matter. As you stated from the beginning this is about finding out what works best for YOU. If something else works better for that guy, no problem.

Trolls. Don't feed. :)
 
There's no way I'm doing a video. It's totally worthless for comparison purposes and everyone knows that. The only reason to do a video is to prove that it's not marketing meeting. Not worth the effort.

And I'm just having fun with the trolls, trolling back!
 
There's no way I'm doing a video. It's totally worthless for comparison purposes and everyone knows that. The only reason to do a video is to prove that it's not marketing meeting. Not worth the effort.

And I'm just having fun with the trolls, trolling back!
To be fair compare should be done with factory sealed units so we can be sure of no hanky panky or hidden mods under the hood . I'm just kidding . Really sounds like fun though I love trying out gear and such . there are no winners and losers, make Music have fun . :)
 
Ok, you caught me. I put the guts of a Mesa Road King in my AxeII chassis...

Having fun and trying out new gear is exactly the point of this for me. I love trying out gear and could care less about the ongoing Axe Vs. Kemper wars on the various Forums. I have never played a Kemper and have wanted to give one a spin for a long time. I have no desire to buy one, but checking it out should be a lot of fun! If mbrown3 can gain something from the comparison, then we've accomplished all that needs to be done. Personally, I don't plan to post my "findings" here or on any other forum. It's all about having a fun evening checking out guitars and gear.
 
That's s so idiotic it's downright hilarious! Like an iPhone video of a very unscientific comparison from two yahoos in Columbus Ohio will settle the Axe vs. Kemper debate once and for all!

As far as I am concerned, anyone from the Kemper forum in the Columbus area that seriously believes this is a marketing campaign is welcome to come and join us. Just send me a PM and I'll give you the details.

The sad thing is, though, that I was accused of the very same thing earlier in this thread (being a shill for Kemper). Some people truly can't handle even the discussion about the possibility of someone disagreeing with them, to the point where they assume the person is disagreeing with them even when they aren't, and then come up with all kinds of conspiracies about things. It's super crazy. (Not picking on the Kemper forum, because again, the same thing happened...first...here).

I will, though, 2nd the invitation...anyone else, from either side of the issue, that wants to join us, feel free. PM for info.
 
Here's a footcontroller question: why don't foot controllers have guitar inputs on them? It seems crazy to me that we have to run instrument cable from the guitar back to the amp, then another cable from the amp to the footpedal. Why not put the input on the controller so we only have to have one cable connecting them, and it would also give us a bit more range on the stage. It's not a latency issue, as ethernet cable has far more bandwidth than instrument cable. Is there some other technical issue I'm not aware of? Or some other reason why this isn't a good idea? It doesn't appear that the MFC-101 or the Kemper Remote has the option to plug in there instead of at the amp.
 
Here's a footcontroller question: why don't foot controllers have guitar inputs on them? It seems crazy to me that we have to run instrument cable from the guitar back to the amp, then another cable from the amp to the footpedal. Why not put the input on the controller so we only have to have one cable connecting them, and it would also give us a bit more range on the stage. It's not a latency issue, as ethernet cable has far more bandwidth than instrument cable. Is there some other technical issue I'm not aware of? Or some other reason why this isn't a good idea? It doesn't appear that the MFC-101 or the Kemper Remote has the option to plug in there instead of at the amp.

The ethernet cable doesn't carry audio.

There is a 'wish list' forum if you think it's a good idea, but I would say wouldn't it be better to buy a wireless unit?
 
The ethernet cable doesn't carry audio.

There is a 'wish list' forum if you think it's a good idea, but I would say wouldn't it be better to buy a wireless unit?

The ethernet cable can't carry audio, or doesn't? I think it should be able to easily carry audio signals, and probably do it better than instrument cable (since it can carry far more bandwidth). Wireless units lose audio quality. I've used a bunch, and while some are better than others, I end up getting frustrated with quality and interference, and going back to cables.

This isn't entirely a wish list (at least, not yet), I'm more just curious if there are some reasons why this hasn't been done. There may very well be numerous reasons...I'm just not aware of them, and would be curious to find out. That said, I know this is a bit off the topic, so I'm fine if it gets moved.
 
The difference is I'm not hiding behind some fake persona pretending to be a legitimate user. I'm not sending fake users into forums and necrobumping threads to keep discussion of our products on the first page. I'm not buying FB likes and then bragging about the number of people who like our page. I'm right here in the open. You don't like me, fine. But I don't lie and I don't play the fucking games. Our number one rule is "do the right thing".

Respect. You're the man, dude.
 
Our number one rule is "do the right thing".



Ain't ashamed to say it...


BAF.jpg
 
The Axe FX has an Analog/digital converter to convert the guitar signal. So, in theorie, you could have this converter in the MFC and Basically, the incoming AX8 (if I'm correct) will do this stuff + more.
 
Ok without adding more fuel to the fire, I feel I need to throw in my opinion as well.
I should start by saying that I've been an Axe-FX user for some time. I work as a salesman at a guitar shop where we sell/sold amp sims like Eleven Rack, Line 6 stuff and etc. I regularly use/test amp plugins for DAWs as well like EZmix, TSE x50, guitar rig, LePou plugins and etc.
I feel that all these products are and sound great. Again, personally I feel that some are better than others and that some are better priced as well.
Usually when people start discussing/arguing about Amp Sims and what sounds better, there are too many things to take into consideration such as personal taste, but we could probably write several more down.
Like hearing loss ;)
Personally I cannot fathom why people think the Kemper "sounds better" than the Axe-FX II, I simply feel quite the opposite. But again, that is my own personal opinion reflected upon my personal taste.
I tried the Kemper and even tried making several profiles with it. I found it to not sound 100% or even 90% like the "real thing". It was close enough to sound good though.
I have A/B tested the Axe-FX II versus the real amp in a pro studio and I honestly couldn't hear the difference. I didn't even bother tonematching.
But before we take this flaming further, lets discuss the Kemper and Axe-FX and what they do.

Kemper:
The Kemper is a great tool for people who own amps/gear and want their own sound in a portable and affordable solution. They don't want too many dials to fiddle with and it just needs to sound great.
Well your in luck! That is what the Kemper will do, and it's cheaper than the Axe-FX II.
It profiles amp, cab and mic setups and you can download/buy others as well.

Axe-FX II:
The Axe-FX is for people who want to try out simulations of different brands of amps, pedals, cabinets and microphones. They can mix and match several Amp, Cab and Mic combination. Any sound they want to make out of nothing, they can do that with the Axe-FX. That is the key strength of the Axe-FX, you can do what ever you want and you have the processing power to do it. You can even tonematch if you want your own sound as well.

Now let's take a look at the hardware (correct me if I'm wrong)

Kemper (last time I checked) uses a 24 bit fixed point Motorola DSP processor. List price is about 12 USD per processor.
(Same processor are/have also been featured in products by Line 6 and Eleven Rack)

Axe-FX II uses two 32 bit floating point SHARC DSP processors. List price is about 300 USD per processor.
(that kinda explains the price difference eh?)

So the hardware dictates that it's impossible for the Kemper "to sound better" since it's using fixed point processing instead of floating point processing which gives a more preciese simulation of the "real thing"
SHARC DSP processors are also used by Universal Audio for their plugin suite. The plugins they make are reviewed to be almost identical to the real thing and are even better than the competition sim plugins.
Build quality wise, I don't feel any difference between Kemper and Axe-FX. Both are built to last.
I feel like that you probably lean more towards Kemper since it's cheaper and you want to model your own gear, that sounds like a great solution for you.
I think it's a bad time to buy a Kemper when brands like Line 6 are upgrading their amp sims with 32 bit floating point DSP processors. The new 500x series have a better DSP processor than the old 500 series, and it sounds awesome!
I'm guessing that Kemper will upgrade to 32 bit floating point. It's just a matter of time.

I love amp sims, and I love them all, not just Axe-FX II. Axe-FX just happen to be my favorite cause I can get any tone I want, I can load in my own cabinets, I can tonematch and I get amps and firmware upgrades for free! It's the best studio tool I ever bought.
I feel that the other amp sims like Line 6 and Eleven Rack have shitty Cabinet simulations. Great thing about Kemper is that you can make a profile of an awesome amp/cab setup, so not shitty Cab sim there. Of course in the Axe-FX you can load your own Hi-res cabinet IR file.
Well that was my personal opinion. Hope it helped.
 
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The ethernet cable can't carry audio, or doesn't? I think it should be able to easily carry audio signals, and probably do it better than instrument cable (since it can carry far more bandwidth). Wireless units lose audio quality. I've used a bunch, and while some are better than others, I end up getting frustrated with quality and interference, and going back to cables.

This isn't entirely a wish list (at least, not yet), I'm more just curious if there are some reasons why this hasn't been done. There may very well be numerous reasons...I'm just not aware of them, and would be curious to find out. That said, I know this is a bit off the topic, so I'm fine if it gets moved.

Well let me try to explain from my perspective as to why the audio from the guitar isn't in the MFC-101. Its by design. Yes its that simple. Fractal didn't want the analog signal chain going thru the MFC-101 midi controller, because after all it is a midi controller. And without some A to D conversions inside the MFC-101 (changing the design for the MFC-101 and also raising its price) you would then have to (at some point) split the analog signal from the midi controller signal (provided there was a way to keep guitar pickup signals to the Axe FX the same thru an ethernet cable without an A to D conversion) , probably at the Axe FX... Now you have to do a design change on the Axe FX. More costs involved. Can ethernet cables carry analog signals? Best used with some Analog to Digital conversion before hitting the ethernet cable, yes it can. Can this all be done? Sure... It just wasn't designed that way. Line 6 for example (and AFAIK) uses its Variax guitar (and special POE ethernet cable) to do this very thing (send guitar signals down an ethernet cable), but remember the audio leaving the Variax thru this special cable is in ones and zeros, from the circuit board located in the back of the guitar to a special ethernet port on the HD 500 etc etc where at some point the guitar signal go's D to A and out to the power / amp world... And so in my view its much easier to swap a bad guitar cord out, than troubleshoot an analog signal (or digital audio issue) inside the MFC-101, should it occur. Im sure there were many other reasons (including build costs) at the time of designing the MFC-101 as to why an analog signal was not a part of the MFC-101. It is what it is, a MIDI controller, by design. Thats why "i" think it was done the way it was done... YMMV as always from mine :)

Edited: And I would love to own both the Kemper and Axe FX II guitar preamps, but can't really justify the need at this point. My Axe FX II / MFC-101 / CLR's does what it does very well...
 
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Here's a footcontroller question: why don't foot controllers have guitar inputs on them? It seems crazy to me that we have to run instrument cable from the guitar back to the amp, then another cable from the amp to the footpedal. Why not put the input on the controller so we only have to have one cable connecting them, and it would also give us a bit more range on the stage. It's not a latency issue, as ethernet cable has far more bandwidth than instrument cable. Is there some other technical issue I'm not aware of? Or some other reason why this isn't a good idea? It doesn't appear that the MFC-101 or the Kemper Remote has the option to plug in there instead of at the amp.

I get what you're saying and if I'm correct you're probably thinking about something like the Nova System or POD or such units that have dedicated guitar inputs. These are multi-effects units. The MFC and the Kemper Remote are dedicated midi controllers for "nothing else" than sending MIDI messages and controlling the device they're hooked up to. Introducing audio there would just complicate things and make them outrageously pricey without any real benefit other than using a tad shorter cable.
 
And saying: "They're both great units, blah, blah, blah..." doesn't make anyone sound equanimous or wise, au contraire... ambivalent and easily swayed seems more likely.

You think I was trying to sound equanimous or wise? LOL. I am far from ambivalent though - in fact, that's why I bought a Kemper. If there's a better unit out there I am happy to make a switch. The Kemper is a great unit. I like the Axe better though. As for being easily swayed, I've been playing an Axe-FX since my name came up on the original Ultra waiting list close to 8 years ago and have stuck with it (and now the II) precisely because I am not easily swayed by the pack. Perhaps you should give up on trying to draw conclusions from those figments of your imagination.
 
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