Axe FX II and Kemper Profiler (Yes, another one...please read!)

[mbrown3]

My Take.

From your initial "needs" Id honestly say the Kemper would suit better. You dont need many FX, or complex routing which is a major plus for the AFX. You only need a few tones - and more critically have the amps you want to capture. That along with easy minor tweeking with the real knobs of the Kemper would seem to suit you better.

Id also agree with Cliff (no surprise) that the Kemper did feel better a short while back. It seemed a little more lively. FW 17 got close IMO - but FW18 nails that - particularly with clean/low gain tones that did seem a little lacking in bite compared to the Kemper (and my real Machete). FW 18 seems to get much closer there. Whether the AFX is now better "feeling" than the Kemper or on par - quite honestly thats going to be a personal opinion at this point in time. I tend to go with Cliff though - yes hes biased, even the most balanced of us would be - however his drive to make his box the best it can be means he isolates aspects he thinks are week and improves them as/when he can - which means he is perfectly capable of acknowledging where the AFX falls down (next to real amps AND other modelers). So, if Cliff says the AFX now feels better to him than the Kempers he owns, Id believe that.

Thank you very much...both for your honesty re: the Kemper, and the info on v. 18. I keep reading that 18 does nail the feel a lot more, and that's great news. Also one of the big draws of Axe-FX, IMO, is the constant updating. The pursuit of perfection and constantly addressing weaknesses is something I relate to well, and it seems like updates for the Axe-FX happen a lot more often than on the Kemper.

 

[paulmapp8306]

Yep - but thats both a good thing and a bad thing, depending how you view it.

Ultimately though - you dont HAVE to update all the time. If your happy with how it sounds - don update unless its a major release, which only happens every year or so really.

 

[ElectricPhase]

PLEASE can we leave the shipping issue alone? Continuing to harp on it is driving me further away from the product...right or wrong.

That's on you. With the exception of Fractal Audio employees, nobody here is trying to sell anything. We're posting our experiences and opinions, at your request, in an attempt to be helpful/informative.

My opinion is that you'd be happier with the Axe-FX in the long run. The complexity of the Axe can be completely ignored until it's needed. When you do need those features and flexibility, there's no way to magic them into the Kemper.

 

[mbrown3]

I call BS on this. You continue to insinuate Fractal is trying to rip you off by over charging for shipping.

We have no idea where you are located, nor do we know where you Road King came from. Maybe your amp traveled 40 miles and the Axe Fx has to go 3000, we have no idea. However, we do know when a new person comes to a forum and makes accusations under what begins to appear to be false pretenses, we refer to them as an internet troll. If this thread isn't straight trolling it certainly is getting very close. In the end, you don't need the complexity of the Axe Fx and seem dissatisfied from the start, so just get the Kemper and spare everyone the aggravation and accusations.

Feel free to call BS on whatever you want. My Road King came from Las Vegas. I'm in Ohio. No idea where Fractal is located. It cost me just under $40 to have the Road King shipped ($35.88, to be exact).

Also, I never made any accusations. In fact, I flat out said that there MAY be a legit reason why their shipping costs are so much more than it is for every other item/person. I simply said that it SEEMS LIKE a money grab.

In fact, I have been the one to repeatedly request that we leave the shipping topic alone. If you think that constitutes trolling, then you haven't spent much time on the internet.

Why so defensive? Do you work in the shipping department for Fractal?

 

[Rotti]

You guys may think it's crazy but I'm hung up on why 20lbs of gear costs $80 to ship. But, again, I'd prefer to leave it at that. I'm not going to change my mind, and you guys aren't either. I don't view it as part of the whole cost...I view as an exorbitant cost to get it to me.

From Cliff:

We don't set the shipping costs, UPS does. Our online store connects to their server and fetches the shipping cost. The weight or size of an item is only one factor in the cost. Insurance ends up being a significant portion.

mbrown3, you may not know this yet, seeing as your post count is low, but Cliff (the guy with the Fractal Audio avatar) is the man running the show for FAS and inventor of the AxeFx. Here he's saying the costs are directly from UPS and a dollar-for-dollar charge to the customer. This is about as definitive as it gets with regards to the whole shipping issue.

I think maybe a lot of folks posting here got a page or two into the thread and have continued to post re. shipping costs, which is to be expected on a forum I guess. I don't think people are intentionally harping on the issue. I'm posting this because it seems like you might've overlooked it when it was posted. So, hopefully now we can all move on.

 

[mbrown3]

I believe he said Columbus area... He's not a troll. My take is that he actually wants the AxeFX more but the price (including shipping) is preventing the purchase. I think his analysis is very good.

Thank you. And yes, Columbus.

So to the OP, I think you should get the AxeFX+MFC (XL and mkIII if possible). From your description it sounds like either would do amp and cab wise but the AxeFX does give you a lot more effects capability. If you also record, the AxeFX is insanely good at getting completely produced sounds due to the multiple amps and cabs, eq, compression, reverb, etc. etc. So even if the core sound and feel (amp and cab) are identical between the two units, it's the 'extra' stuff that should push you to a decision. The AxeFX has all of that extra stuff.

I do a lot of recording, but it's almost always in the studio (or I'll record dry tracks at home and send them over to the studio, where they add effects in post). So live capability is probably more important than recording in that regard.

By the way, since you haven't tried either of these, are you going to use an amp and cab with either or are you going FRFR? Because quite honestly neither may be to your liking. I highly suggest demoing both with local artists and bring your end chain to compare.

Honestly I'm not sure yet. I like the idea of using an existing cab, but then I'm removing the benefits of the cab simulations. Probably FRFR, though I'm not sure I want to invest in one and have yet one more piece of gear (ultimately my goal is to pare down the amount of equipment I have, but I won't be ready to sell stuff off that quickly).

 

[mbrown3]

Apples and Oranges. Find out what you need and make a choice. Its well written in both forums what the units are good for. The fact that this thread is in this forum and not in a silly ERG group puzzles me. :>

Not sure what an ERG group is. Most of what is "well-written" about the units (at least, comparing and contrasting them) is old and doesn't reflect the most recent updates to firmware, features, etc. I thought I mentioned that in my OP.

 

[mbrown3]

I just don´t understand why so many people get pissed during this discussion -I mean we´re all guitarplayers craving for the best possible tool to convey our ideas soundwise - why doesn´t it seem to be possible to have an unemotional neutral discussion about this topic - as I mentioned above on p2 - Kemper and AXE FX are both digital units to emulate - or maybe replace - Amps with some Effects - if you´re not allowed to compare THESE units which ones can you???? I think the most users and maybe also the developers of Kemper and AXE Fx know exactly that these units are in competition with each other and the reactions prove it - why not naming it? Of course I had to compare them (and chose the Axe) and many of my colleagues and students have to - these are not Apples and Oranges! The problems are that all the Varaibles (IRs, Programming, Profiles, FW, User...) that define the sound are hard to include in a scientific comparison....All in all - everything anybody says here to criticise the AXE FX can only help to improve it and some people should not react as if somone had touched their balls ! I will always choose the one that sounds better - now it´s the AXE FX - tomorrow? Who knows?

Thanks for the thoughtful and level-headed post. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Zmonk]

Feel free to call BS on whatever you want. My Road King came from Las Vegas. I'm in Ohio. No idea where Fractal is located. It cost me just under $40 to have the Road King shipped ($35.88, to be exact).

Also, I never made any accusations. In fact, I flat out said that there MAY be a legit reason why their shipping costs are so much more than it is for every other item/person. I simply said that it SEEMS LIKE a money grab.

In fact, I have been the one to repeatedly request that we leave the shipping topic alone. If you think that constitutes trolling, then you haven't spent much time on the internet.

Why so defensive? Do you work in the shipping department for Fractal?

This is Ground shipping to me in MA, one state over from Fractal in NH, using just the AxeFx II dimensions, weight and value, not taking into account the manual and added dimensions and weight of the double boxing and packing material Fractal uses. I would think shipping to Ohio would obviously increase the cost even more.

Edit: With no insurance the price drops to below $13.00.

.

 

[mbrown3]

It's been going on so long everyone is tired of hearing it. There are many of these discussions around and they prove nothing, so no need to start more. The only real solution is to try both because it all comes down to personal preference, unless you run off others opinions in which case you will never be satisfied anyway.

Yes, but that's part of the problem. It's been going on so long that all of the information in the years-old threads are completely outdated. Rather than dig up old threads, I felt it better to start a new one comparing the actual recent developments in the products, rather than "The Kemper has no rack unit or footcontroller" or "The Axe-FX doesn't feel like a real amp"...all of which are issues that have (apparently) changed in recent days.

I very much appreciate the insight here, as actually trying both units probably won't be a possibility. Unless there is anyone local to the Columbus area that has one or (even better) both units that I can try...?

 

[Rick]

This is REALLY helpful, from a real-world RK user. Thanks!



But...I don't. You guys may think it's crazy but I'm hung up on why 20lbs of gear costs $80 to ship. But, again, I'd prefer to leave it at that. I'm not going to change my mind, and you guys aren't either. I don't view it as part of the whole cost...I view as an exorbitant cost to get it to me.

Yeah, the Road King II was a benchmark for me, the best all around rig I had for playing many styles of music through a single rig. There's a lot of that mindset in the Fractal Audio and Kemper units, and it is a great value to me.

If the shipping matters to you, then it does. No one should beat you up for it. I was injecting a possible different mindset that I thought might help remove non-musical barriers (and I am sure you took it as intended). If you can get past the shipping, I still say you ought to try both if at all possible. There is just no other way to really know except to try them both in your environment.

Either way, I hope you find your inspiration. The bright side is you have some awesome sounding gear already if you don't like either!!

 

[mbrown3]

Coming onto a Axe FX OR a KPA board and asking for honest opinions about a comparison, or 'which is better' is asking who's the better band, Beatles or Rolling Stones? The answer is always yes.

Yes, and I expected that. I posted the same thing in both forums because hearing those answers, biased though they may be, is helpful.

I can't decide if you want to be talked out of a KPA, or into an Axe FX. Either way, IT COMES DOWN TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE. I think both would work fine for you, but you'll get no 'AHA!' moment in any of these posts that will sway you unerringly one way or another. Or come into one of these places expecting anyone to 'talk you into it'.

I don't really want to be talked into or out of either one. I just want to hear people's experience and opinions (which I've gotten in spades, and which I am grateful for). I truly don't have an agenda...I'm open to either unit. Both have pros and cons to me, which I (think I) detailed in my OP.

I personally would pick the Axe FX, from the sheer standpoint of you may have simple needs now, but (like I did) once you find out all the deep capabilities in the unit, you can't help but want to use them.

IMO.

This is exactly the kind of post that DOES create that "AHA" moment you were talking about. Because I think this is wise thinking. Maybe not enough to push me over the edge, but more data means a more informed decision. (So, thank you!).

 

[RONJONES2020]

Just shut up and get both!

 

[mbrown3]

Cost of shipping and insuring a rack size guitar FX processor is what it is. If that is a "deal breaker", then I'd say end of discussion. Enjoy your $50 savings and whatever other gear you end up buying, I'm sure in the long run your life will be all the better for that money you saved. Maybe frame it and put it on the way, with a plaque that dedicates it to avoiding a "cash grab" on shipping cost.

Everyone else will be playing and enjoying their Axe units

Thanks for the douchy post that misses the point entirely.

 

[mbrown3]

We don't set the shipping costs, UPS does. Our online store connects to their server and fetches the shipping cost. The weight or size of an item is only one factor in the cost. Insurance ends up being a significant portion.

OK, fair enough. Thanks. This is helpful to know. Insurance does cost quite a bit, but as far as I was told, my Road King was insured for full value too. I was the receiver, of course, not the shipper, so I can't confirm this, but that's what I was told.

 

[mbrown3]

FFS who gives a monkeys ass about the shipping costs? Not the point of the discussion surely.

THANK YOU.

 

[mbrown3]

With the above scenario, the Axe-FX II XL and MFC-101 Mark III is precisely what you need. The Kemper is nice, but takes longer (IMHO) to tune in for your specific needs.

Take a look at the Wiki with all the different Amp Simulations available in the Axe-FX: Amp: all models - Axe-Fx II Wiki

I have used a Kemper a couple of times and was not overwhelmed with the quality of the tone. With FAS and Cliff (first one to answer your post/owner of the company), the passion drives the ever & "for the better" changing technology. These guys know what they are doing and do it remarkably well.

Thank you, and response is a big deal...not just on the forums but in terms of software updates, feature additions, etc.

 

[mbrown3]

Did you read the thread ? Its a major point of contention keeping the OP from buying an Axe

No, it's not. Did you read the thread?

 

[mbrown3]

Now I do not really know what Kemper sounds or feels like, I have only seen a few audio clips, but with the firmware 18 the AXE is pretty much feeling like a tube amp. No modeler that I know comes even close. I grew up on modelers so I know the difference now is huge. Don´t want to overhype things, but yes it is THAT good

The reason I am saying that it feels like a tube amp: I went to check out a local amp maker and his amps with my teacher some many years ago. We brought our POD 2.0 beans to "compare". We never pulled the PODs out. There was no comparison, it just felt amazing. The event immediately came into my mind when I started fiddling with the version 18 with headphones only. the FEEL was absolutely like that day with all those tube amps we tried out. I was kind of startled and did not want to believe it. But it still feels that way, when I plug into the AXE. Huge improvement in the feel department. All right I am done talking about the "feel"

as far as complexity goes, you can have very simple presets in the AXE - amp cab delay reverb. Or just Amp and Cab. you could make one preset that would cover your needs - clean, dirty, soaring lead and you would not have to make another preset for ever. But if you change your mind, you can go crazy with complex patches and intricate sounds. And you can change your mind anytime. That is the beauty of it

ultimately it is up to you. Good luck

Thank you...this is awesome.

 

[mbrown3]

I have both the Kemper rack mount and axe fx 2. At first I preferred the Kemper because of simplicity, however in the long run that is what has made it the paperweight it is to me today. It was incredibly easy to make it sound good. I felt I max'd out its potential very quickly, and as my playing style evolved, I found myself wanting to experiment with different sounds, which brought me to the axe side. You have to think to yourself, will the Kemper be enough? I would rather create my own sound, than use a profile of someone else's rig. With the axe, the tonal possibilities are literally endless.

Thanks...this too is very helpful.