Axe FX II and Kemper Profiler (Yes, another one...please read!)

If you already are suggesting that maybe down the line you might get frustrated with the Kemper possibly not having enough features, I think that is a major flag. I can't see really being upset the Axe has things you might never use.. because in the back of your mind you really could if you so chose to.

Yeah, that's a good point, and kind of what I've been thinking too. OTOH, I'm also afraid I'll be frustrated by TOO many options on the Axe-FX and that it will take me too long to get sounds where I want them.
 
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I owned both units until around about FW10 on the Axe, since then felt the Axe could give me everything I wanted and more in terms of feel/dynamics/tone, plus way more fx and routing options.

The ManRock800 profile was nearly worth the price of admission alone, but the Axe has come a long ways since I first got the KPA, now actually surpassing it. FW18 in particular just has such great dynamics and feel, honestly feels like your playing a proper amp.
 
The feel with V18 software is better than the Kemper IMO (I have two of them). A year or so ago the Kemper felt slightly better. But the Axe-Fx caught up and surpassed it. But I'm biased so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

Not sure where you got $80 for shipping costs. Ground shipping is typically around $30.

Ok..Axe FX is the best ..I have both Axe FX II ( and Ultra) and Kemper..Kemper is collecting dust...I extensively use Axe FX II..I have all the Cabs packs...Never looked for another device..I love the way my Axe looks in my rack system and how everybody praise my guitar sounds...and complaining for those 80 dollars..'cmmon..if Cliff put every upgrade and firmware for nothing..and asking no charge at all for so many years..this should cover the loss of 80 bucks all the way..right..?
Kemper-sounds good ( not my cup of tea) but looks ugly ..its like an old radio ..the lack of inspiration on design ..stays there in my studio...I didn't touch it for such a long long time..and I don't feel the need to do it....
Axe FX device rules all the way...( with this 18 firmware I think it's the right time to sell a lot of my tube amps and pedals..and the Kemper).
 
You don't have to use the complexity of the AXE FX II. The great thing about it is you can use it in a simple way and get great tones. Simply pick your amp, cab, effects, route them like you would physical gear and dial in the standard knobs and it will give you great sound and variety. All the advanced features are in sub-layers that you don't have to even go into if you don't want. If you get adventurous and later decide you need an advanced feature it will be there but not required by any means.
 
I've owned both and compared them head-to-head (FW17.04 and FW2.8, FAS & KPA respectively through a Matrix GT1000FX & a pair of passive CLRs).

When running each as follows: Guitar->wireless->modeler->Matrix->CLRs, I noticed the following:

Feel: toss up. I couldn't distinguish one having a more amp-like feel over the other. That's for cleans, crunch, high gain, whatever you threw at them. Both responded very well, both cleaned up well with the vol on my guitar.

Tone: slight edge to FAS (also for the full range from clean to searing). Here's why: I can dial in a shit tone on my AxeFx and it'll sound like shit. I can also dial in outstanding tones and they will sound outstanding. That's the FAS. With the KPA, it's all about the profiles. Shitty profiles are beyond worthless. The great ones are exactly that... but you have to buy the great ones (there are some very good freebies, but they're rare. It's exceedingly rare that the great free profiles also work with your particular guitar). Then you have to make them work in YOUR mix. There are those out there who, for a fee, will build your dream tone for the KPA... but you're here, gun-shy about shipping costs, which leads me to believe that may be a problem (custom built tones can run into the $900 ballpark or higher).

Price: edge KPA. It's cheaper. Period. But keep in mind that their "free shipping" is built into the cost of the unit, they're just not telling you that. Business/Marketing 101. The phrase "you get what you pay for" pops up in my head after owning both... grain of salt I guess.

Resale value: edge FAS. Both are very desirable units and don't last long on the used market, but AxeFxII's tend to go for a higher percentage of their retail value on the used market. As another forum member recently put it, "they're as close to liquid cash as gear gets," or something to that effect. I'll leave it to you to decide why.

Foot controllers: neither. I know it must be pissing Cliff off for me to say this -repeatedly - but there are cheaper and equally functional alternatives on the market. That goes for both FAS & KPA. I won't go into detail here. PM me if you're really interested.

Effects: clear FAS victory. I'm talking about quality here. Yes, the KPA has the "true" pitch shifting and formant wah... TBH the pitch effect is cool. The formant effect is virtually useless in the real world. When it comes to the nuts & bolts effects that nearly everyone uses at some point (reverb. delay. OD. etc.), the FAS effects are light years ahead of what the KPA offers, despite all the perpetual complaining of "the [effect block] doesn't sound exactly like my [pedal] when I've got dying Malasian batteries" you'll see in wish list threads around here. The truth is, FAS effects are pretty goddamned spectacular. I've even put some of them head-to-head with Strymon effects (Timeline/El Cap, BlueSky, Brig.) and some vintage & vintag-y analogs. The FAS isn't always the best for effects, but they're far better than what the KPA has... but effects are not a big deal for you, so take it for what it's worth in your situation.

Routing: landslide FAS victory. Dream it. Build it. With a flexible PA, you can literally set up for any conceivable routing needs, either in the grid or through external hardware. This of course also applies to effect placement. The KPA is much more flexible than most rigs, but still nowhere near the level that FAS takes it to.

Learning curve: clear KPA win. This might not be the case for you, being a studio cat, chances are good you have the knowledge to dial in a good tone fairly quickly, and with the AxeEdit software (no KPA equivalent... RM, but just to preview profiles) that should be easy. That said, there's a lot more under the hood with an AxeFxII. KPA is simple: load a profile. It sucks? Then load another one. I'm biased, but I look at it like I look at buying a new Camero... who the Hell buys a Camero that's automatic? Same idea.

Misc.: wash. Yup, FAS is 1U smaller. Flip side to that coin, you can get a 1U PA with the FAS, or a powered KPA which is still 3U... kinda' reverses the check block in the price column to do so, depending entirely on what PA you want to use.

Specific to you: I read through your OP a few times, and the only real question mark for me was why you're so hellbent on the RK & Egnater module (which, BTW, are the equivlent of swapping tonestacks - a FAS capability - and a portion of the initial gain stage, not entire preamps) tones. If you've nailed tones you love, high five, either profile them with the KPA or tonematch in the FAS and call it a day... but having played both amps for a decent period, I have to believe (and for my tastes I KNOW) there's better tones out there. For either unit. I guess my question is why are you looking here and not sticking to what you've already got?

Anyhow, people tend to get upset when I say this, but it's the truth... I don't care what you use. It doesn't affect me in the least. I'm just trying to be impartial and give you the info you're looking for. But, like I mentioned a few times before, I'm biased, because I sold off my KPA (to my neighbor who is also a veteran player and a studio cat with a good ear for tone) and kept my FAS. I will say though, I didn't do that so that I could say as much to you here and now. I did it because it was the better unit for my needs and gave me the sounds I was after.

...grains of salt.

...get a good playback system for either one.
 
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Ok..Axe FX is the best ..I have both Axe FX II ( and Ultra) and Kemper..Kemper is collecting dust...I extensively use Axe FX II..I have all the Cabs packs...Never looked for another device..I love the way my Axe looks in my rack system and how everybody praise my guitar sounds...and complaining for those 80 dollars..'cmmon..if Cliff put every upgrade and firmware for nothing..and asking no charge at all for so many years..this should cover the loss of 80 bucks all the way..right..?

Listen, I don't want to b!tch and moan about $80. But my Road King didn't even cost me $80 to ship, and that weighs 90lbs. It just seems like an insane amount for shipping, and when you factor it into the already-high/higher cost of the unit, it sticks in my craw.
 
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Listen, I don't want to b!tch and moan about $80. But my Road King didn't even cost me $80 to ship, and that weighs 90lbs. It just seems like an insane amount for shipping, and when you factor it into the already-high/higher cost of the unit, it seems outrageous.
I'm seriously considering ponying up for a pizza party for the entire FAS crew when FW18 is released.
$80. You'd spend twice as much on a Shitty Boss pedal that you'd end up selling to a pawn shop for under $50.
This is the good stuff. Let it go.
 
Oh, and that thing that fries on updates is the EPROM.
Unplug any MIDI devices before updating, as is mentioned on all of the release notes, and you're GTG.
 
I've owned both and compared them head-to-head (FW17.04 and FW2.8, FAS & KPA respectively through a Matrix GT1000FX & a pair of passive CLRs).

Good thoughts, especially re: the "Tone" section.

Also good thoughts re: effects. Let me clarify, too: the effects I use ARE very much a big deal for me. I just don't use that many of them. Delays (especially) and reverb are the two staples, and I want the best ones possible. Your comparison to the Strymon is good, because for me, TC and Strymon set the benchmark for delays.

Re: why I'm looking here, two reasons: 1. I can't use both the Road King AND MOD50 live. Well, I could, but...no. And (most importantly) 2. I have a bad back...old snowboarding injury that has resulted in procedures, etc. It's not that I can't lift anything, etc, but I'm getting to the point where I don't want to cart these amps all over creation. I plan to keep (at least) one of them for home/studio use, but for live I just don't want to haul them anymore.

FWIW, money isn't an issue at all. I just have a hard time figuring out $80 for shipping of two items that collectively weigh 20lbs when my 90lb Road King cost me half of that to ship with an insane amount of padding/protection. I know this doesn't bother other people, and maybe it shouldn't bother me either...but it does. It's not an issue of being able to afford it...it's why do I have to?
 
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Listen, all, for what it's worth re: shipping, saying, "Let it go" or whatever is not helpful. I'm not suddenly going to go, "Yeah, I'm being silly about 20lbs costing double what it costs to ship something that weights 4.5 times more." It may seem inconsequential to some people, but in all honesty, I was ready to pull the trigger when I saw the shipping costs, and my initial thought was, "WHAT?!? F that!" Some of you may think that's petty or nit picking, but I'm just being honest. It's out of line with what shipping actually costs, and it leaves a sour taste. It seems like a money grab, pure and simple. (Whether it actually is or not, I don't know. There could be some reason why their shipping costs are exorbitantly more than everyone else, but without knowing either way, it SEEMS like a money grab.) But, it's my issue and I'll just have to get over it if I decide to go with Axe-FX. I'm OK with leaving it at that. Trying to convince me I shouldn't be annoyed by it is counter-productive.
 
shipping cost? if it's blond or brown? is that the way you do your assessment of a guitar gear?!?
Think to the TONE and flexibility and what you can do with one or the other!
TONE Axe win
FORM FACTOR Axe win
FLEXIBILITY Axe win
EFXs Axe win
PEDALBOARD & ADDON Axe win
PROFILING/T.M. Axe can do it too very well
If profiling your gear is the only thing you need for 3 tones only... ok than save your 500$
But the Axe for now...is the end of the game!!!
 
I hear ya.
Got a couple crushed discs from a run in on the Syrian border about a year and a half ago.
I had a Diesel VH4 head and a pair of OS recto cabs at the time and thought, like hell I'm ever lugging that shit around again.
Went full on axe fx and never looked back. Best gear decision I ever made.
Maybe the $80 is a money grab, maybe it's to pay for two separate shipments (Axe + MFC), I neither know nor care. I'm just saying it's worth your 80 bucks.
Buy used if it bothers you so much.
 
I can see how a higher than expected shipping cost could be frustrating but I can't see it actually affecting my purchase UNLESS I could easily get it from another source with cheaper shipping. That would pretty much be the used market with the Axe but it is still an option if it is that big of a factor.
 
shipping cost? if it's blond or brown? is that the way you do your assessment of a guitar gear?!?

I'm not sure what blond or brown means. The shipping cost doesn't factor into my assessment of the gear itself at all. You guys are treating the shipping cost as a part and parcel of the cost of the device. I see it as the cost to get the device to me. Your point: it's worth the extra $80, or however much you have to pay for it. My point: $80 for 20lbs is nuts. Once I've decided on the device, on its own merits, then I'll look at how to get it to me. I'm not seeing that as part of the cost of the device (nor do I with any piece of gear). I see it as the cost of UPS, or USPS, or FedEx, or whatever. And the truth is, none of those options cost anywhere near $80 for 20lbs. I understand what you're saying, but I'm not looking at it the same way.

And, as I said, continuing to press the issue is counter-productive. I'm not going to change my mind on it. It's too much for shipping, period. But I don't want to sit around griping about $80. It's a separate issue. I want to talk about the devices on their own merits, not argue over why it costs so much to transport it to me.
 
I really think this is a very important discussion!
Many people bring up the Argument: they´re are different units, designed for different purposes and you can´t compare them! To me that´s just not true -when you´re a professional guitarplayer you will always choose on basis of the simple fact: what sounds and feels better (or like a real amp - probably) - no professional would argue like "well the kemper sounds better but I like the FXs from the Axe FX..." or vice versa - so to me: yes you can and you must compare them!
But here´s the point - if one unit sounds better or worse - what´s the reason? Bad or good programming? Bad or good IRs? Bad or good Profiles? Bad or good playing? Bad or good userknowledge? Bad or good FW?
I´ve chosen the AXE FX for many reasons but somtimes in different studios I had to use the Kemper, which is a fine one and I have no pride issues running, when I play through it - the stock profiles in the Kemper are really "improvable" but with companies like "The Amp Factory" (or similar) you get amazing Profiles -and to be honest, maybe someone can enlighten me - I miss something compareable with the Axe Fx.

Of course you have the Cab Packs but different patches made by professionals in the Studio? I know there´s Axe Change but since every person can upload Patches (which is great from a democratic point of view but not neccessarily regarding the quality ;) ) you really have to go through hundreds of Sounds to get a real good one. I´m sure that many people would pay for the possibility to get High Quality Patches (made for different guitars and setups) and it would help to make the AXE FX more attractive for people whou would choose the Kemper because they´re a not tweakers - just an idea.....
 
Fair enough. I think we've made our position on that clear as have you yours... moving on...

FWIW, I preferred the Axe's delays, including the multidelay block, to the Strymon Timeline. They were close, especially for tape settings - that was tough to match - but the FAS delays just seemed more natural & organic to me.

The El Cap had something special about it I didn't quite nail, despite it supposedly being the same algo as the TL, but it was still close.

IMO, the best delay on the market, not counting old tape machines, is the Empress Tape Delay (or VM, take your pick), and I can juuust about nail it in the Axe.

Question, are you considering mainly the AxeFxII MkII or XL vs the KPA?
 
I have not owned Egnator gear, but a Road King 2 and 2x12 cab was my main rig for a few years before the Axe FX Ultra replaced it, without regret (especially during load in/out). I now have the Axe Fx II because things were being offered I wanted beyond FW 11 on the Ultra, and the unit does everything I can ask of it. I still have other amps, and I think you should keep yours if you like them. I mean, I play PRS 513s as my main guitars but I have lots of others... same idea.

On the price, it's best to just compare total cost instead of considering shipping. With the remote, the Kemper is $2579 shipped from Sweetwater, the Axe FX II XL and MFC-101 about $3330 shipped from FAS. So that's $751 difference. Incidentally, the Road King/cab setup you already have runs about the same cost as the Fractal rig shipped from Sweetwater at the moment. Of course, that's a bit apples and oranges as the Axe Fx and Kemper still need power and speakers.

I have not played the Kemper, but some players whose ear and ability I respect (Steve Lukather, for instance) give it high praise so I would say that is sufficient to prove it can sound great if used right. The foot controller for the Axe Fx appears to me the have much greater capability, so let's say that accounts for 1/2 the $751 price difference, leaving us at a $375.50 net difference in cost. As top shelf gear goes, that's negligible. I would put dollars out of your mind, it's not enough to be a musical consideration.

All that said, the Axe Fx, both versions, and the MFC, have been an absolutely roadworthy units since 2011 for me, hundreds of gigs in all kinds of inside/outside environments. I say that to indicate it will be supremely reliable if you subject it to less. It never disappoints tone-wise, and like I said coming from Mesa gear (since 1985 by the way) I was used to good sound already. It was actually the Avid Eleven Rack that got me to try modeling solutions again, and I still have one. But I found I could never quite get as good of a feeling with it as I did my tube gear. When I got the Fractal unit, I immediately understood the difference and it has only gotten better. I would love to try the Kemper, just to see, but tend to feel it might run out of gas/options like the Eleven Rack did. I guess it comes down to not feeling a need to even find out. The Axe Fx ended my search. I knew what I wanted, and found it there. You won't know until you play through one yourself.

I have wasted more money on lesser things. I say your music is worth it.

Sooooo, if you have the credit card or cash to pull it off, I suggest you get both and decide for yourself with your ears and your guitar in your space. I am sure that if I posed the question "Is the quality of your tone worth $150 to you?" that your answer would be "absolutely." Ultimately, that is the cost of trying both... return shipping. Then you won't be conjecturing, you will know.


Save that option, buy the Fractal and be done. I can personally recommend that unit without reservation. I wish you the best in your search.
 
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The feel with V18 software is better than the Kemper IMO (I have two of them). A year or so ago the Kemper felt slightly better. But the Axe-Fx caught up and surpassed it. But I'm biased so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

Not sure where you got $80 for shipping costs. Ground shipping is typically around $30.

I have to agree man, the Axe II's feel is so good now compared to like a year ago it's insane!!!! I just finished up my project with V17.04 and I was thinking, how far this unit has come!!!! Thank you sir for sharing your passion with us:)
 
And, as I said, continuing to press the issue is counter-productive. I'm not going to change my mind on it. It's too much for shipping, period. But I don't want to sit around griping about $80. It's a separate issue. I want to talk about the devices on their own merits, not argue over why it costs so much to transport it to me.

Buy an AxeFx2 & you get 15 days to try it out. It will cost you shipping both ways if you choose to return it. Call that $70 total to rent the Axe for a couple weeks.....about 5 bucks a day! Big deal! If you keep it.....great!

If you try the Kemper, I've already told you how to do that totally free if you choose to return it within 30 days! If you keep it.....great!

The only way you will know is to spend some time with each yourself, so what's the problem?

You seem to be over thinking everything when you live in a country that makes it so easy to try shit with very little to no loss.......

You claim $ is not the problem, so how's it so hard for you to outlay some funds to just try 'em? There is nothing else you can learn from other folks opinion at this point!
 
I've owned both and compared them head-to-head (FW17.04 and FW2.8, FAS & KPA respectively through a Matrix GT1000FX & a pair of passive CLRs).

(...)

+1 ! The most comprehensive and reliable comparison i ever read in a forum! Congrats!

I`ve had also both and compared them head-to-head (FW15/16 and FW 2.6 if i remember correct, auditioned both through Matrix Q12a & Ultimate Ears 4 pro) for 10 DIN A4 sites side-by-side comprehensive comparison test for an german online musician magazine. Sadly it is never be undisclosed to date... (don`t know why...)

I came up to almost the same conclusions and evaluations as you :) RAW Amp Sound wise, i couldn`t decide, which one i liked better. It always depends on the profile respectively the preset you`ll dial in. So, honestly i would say, they were on equal status - raw amp sound & feel wise.

Now, FW18 is definitve a remarkable improvement, at least feel wise. So, Cliff maybe biased :mrgreen, but i would subscribe his comment:
The feel with V18 software is better than the Kemper IMO (I have two of them). A year or so ago the Kemper felt slightly better.
IIRC: "A year or so ago" we were on FW 12/13...

Some minor aspects to what the OP adressed (who seems is well informed to both machines i have to say!):


1) This one rack space more gives the Kemper some well selected dedicated buttons and knobs for dedicated instant access. This (and the fact that the whole routing is simpler and fixed (not like the Axe with its totally freedom of routing capabilities i love) give a slightly better and faster physical & haptic control to the device. RAC12 is the answer now for that issue for the Axe-Fx.

2) The price difference Kemper / Axe-Fx XL is in germany (europe) nearly €1000,- (EURO!). But in mind, that the Axe will easily substitute a €2000,- EVENTIDE Eclipse (IMHO!), the price difference is justified. Yes, you`ll get, what you pay for. The question is: What did you need :)

3) I am NOT confident, the MFC101 Midi controller is overprized. Compared to others i believe it fit well in the price/performance mix (At least here in europe)

4) by the way: You can setup the TAP (as all other IAs) on the MFC101 super easily to whatever physical switch you like!
 
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