Axe FX II and Kemper Profiler (Yes, another one...please read!)

I own both Axe Fx Ultra and II (MarkII). I love both units dearly.

As a high gain enthusiast, I love what I can get out of Axe Fx thru my Mesa 50/50 poweramp -> 1960AV. It's an absolute beast.

However, I hope FW18 fixes the thinness of tone with recording direct. In that particular area, I like what I've heard from some of the profiles on KPA. It sounds bloody awesome!

I have high hopes in that area from FW18. Overall, for me, Axe Fx units win hands down. I almost bought a KPA right before FW18 was announced but will let the idea go now.
 
FractalAudio said:
The feel with V18 software is better than the Kemper IMO (I have two of them). A year or so ago the Kemper felt slightly better. But the Axe-Fx caught up and surpassed it. But I'm biased so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

Not sure where you got $80 for shipping costs. Ground shipping is typically around $30.
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It's very professional to discuss this, and not just delete it - 10 points from me! or.. whatever - I think it's a good thing that you discuss it and don't delete it. there :p
 
mbrown3 said:
Listen, all, for what it's worth re: shipping, saying, "Let it go" or whatever is not helpful. I'm not suddenly going to go, "Yeah, I'm being silly about 20lbs costing double what it costs to ship something that weights 4.5 times more." It may seem inconsequential to some people, but in all honesty, I was ready to pull the trigger when I saw the shipping costs, and my initial thought was, "WHAT?!? F that!" Some of you may think that's petty or nit picking, but I'm just being honest. It's out of line with what shipping actually costs, and it leaves a sour taste. It seems like a money grab, pure and simple. (Whether it actually is or not, I don't know. There could be some reason why their shipping costs are exorbitantly more than everyone else, but without knowing either way, it SEEMS like a money grab.) But, it's my issue and I'll just have to get over it if I decide to go with Axe-FX. I'm OK with leaving it at that. Trying to convince me I shouldn't be annoyed by it is counter-productive.
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Just wait until a Fractal Audio promo comes around for free shipping. It's a thing.
 
My Take.

From your initial "needs" Id honestly say the Kemper would suit better. You dont need many FX, or complex routing which is a major plus for the AFX. You only need a few tones - and more critically have the amps you want to capture. That along with easy minor tweeking with the real knobs of the Kemper would seem to suit you better.

Id also agree with Cliff (no surprise) that the Kemper did feel better a short while back. It seemed a little more lively. FW 17 got close IMO - but FW18 nails that - particularly with clean/low gain tones that did seem a little lacking in bite compared to the Kemper (and my real Machete). FW 18 seems to get much closer there. Whether the AFX is now better "feeling" than the Kemper or on par - quite honestly thats going to be a personal opinion at this point in time. I tend to go with Cliff though - yes hes biased, even the most balanced of us would be - however his drive to make his box the best it can be means he isolates aspects he thinks are week and improves them as/when he can - which means he is perfectly capable of acknowledging where the AFX falls down (next to real amps AND other modelers). So, if Cliff says the AFX now feels better to him than the Kempers he owns, Id believe that.

That said - I havent played a Kemper for 18 months now - so dont know what the current Kemper FW brings.

It also depends HOW your going to use the rigs. Back when I tried the Kemper, they both had plus and minus points - but the swinger was that I use my AFX with a real Power amp and cab - only using FRFR for recording. I dont play at venues that really need micing up of anything but vocals and kick drum - so it was just overkill (and PAs that are used arnt particularly good). The Kemper has always struggled to remove the cab part of profiles - and even profiles taken with out cabs seemed a little meh to me. The AFX absolutely kills the competition in that format. I know FW3 from Kemper has gone some way to improve this - but I have no idea how successfully. So if thats how you would use the rig - Id go AFX.
 
I just recently got a Kemper Powerhead after being an Axe2 owner since the ultra.

Out of the box, some of the Kemper profiles sounds pretty good already (without tweaking) and really nice to play. After FW18 came out, i think the Axe really plays and feels better.

I haven't really played around much with the Kemper to give a really good comparison but one thing i can say for sure is:
The AxeFX (with fw18) into a real guitar cab sounds amazing, I've tried the Kemper with the Cab Modeling off and it plays just fine, but when I tweak the treble, mids or bass knobs, it just doesn't sound right and sounds a little harsh, perhaps the new profiling techniques will solve this.
 
mbrown3 said:
Listen, I don't want to b!tch and moan about $80. But my Road King didn't even cost me $80 to ship, and that weighs 90lbs. It just seems like an insane amount for shipping, and when you factor it into the already-high/higher cost of the unit, it sticks in my craw.
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I call BS on this. You continue to insinuate Fractal is trying to rip you off by over charging for shipping.

We have no idea where you are located, nor do we know where you Road King came from. Maybe your amp traveled 40 miles and the Axe Fx has to go 3000, we have no idea. However, we do know when a new person comes to a forum and makes accusations under what begins to appear to be false pretenses, we refer to them as an internet troll. If this thread isn't straight trolling it certainly is getting very close. In the end, you don't need the complexity of the Axe Fx and seem dissatisfied from the start, so just get the Kemper and spare everyone the aggravation and accusations.
 
luke said:
I call BS on this. You continue to insinuate Fractal is trying to rip you off by over charging for shipping.

We have no idea where you are located, nor do we know where you Road King came from. Maybe your amp traveled 40 miles and the Axe Fx has to go 3000, we have no idea. However, we do know when a new person comes to a forum and makes accusations under what begins to appear to be false pretenses, we refer to them as an internet troll. If this thread isn't straight trolling it certainly is getting very close. In the end, you don't need the complexity of the Axe Fx and seem dissatisfied from the start, so just get the Kemper and spare everyone the aggravation and accusations.
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BS is a high-level-emotional-start-up-for-escalating-word.... man! And assuming the OP as troll is really over the top.

C`mon! Not every newbie (and oldie), who articualte critique out of his own subjective view can be automatically "branded" as troll. What`s up with you? The entry post from OP is to me very serious post, very informed (for a "not owner" and he try to get more information from experienced users... all fine to me!

If he has seen €80 bucks and estimate this as inhibition threshold ... so what? It should be allowed to say statements like this, no? If this is untrue - argument untrueness... but we should`nt bitch opinions.... who we are?! :)
 
luke said:
We have no idea where you are located
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I believe he said Columbus area... He's not a troll. My take is that he actually wants the AxeFX more but the price (including shipping) is preventing the purchase. I think his analysis is very good.

So to the OP, I think you should get the AxeFX+MFC (XL and mkIII if possible). From your description it sounds like either would do amp and cab wise but the AxeFX does give you a lot more effects capability. If you also record, the AxeFX is insanely good at getting completely produced sounds due to the multiple amps and cabs, eq, compression, reverb, etc. etc. So even if the core sound and feel (amp and cab) are identical between the two units, it's the 'extra' stuff that should push you to a decision. The AxeFX has all of that extra stuff.

By the way, since you haven't tried either of these, are you going to use an amp and cab with either or are you going FRFR? Because quite honestly neither may be to your liking. I highly suggest demoing both with local artists and bring your end chain to compare.
 
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mbrown3 said:
Clean tone: I think the advantage here goes to the Kemper, again based on the clips that I’ve heard. Hard to find “pure” clean tones for either device though.
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I had a "toaster" and my experience was exactly the opposite. All the Kemper cleans had a "sameness" and lack of amp character whereas the Axe FX II amp models behave differently even with clean settings.

mbrown3 said:
Amp “feel”: From what I’ve read, the advantage here goes to the Kemper, with numerous reviewers noting that the Kemper responds a bit more like a tube amp does. But this is fairly subjective, so what feels “right” to one person may be the opposite for another.
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Back in the day with earlier Axe FX II firmwares... it might have been so. The AxeFX pick attack felt too "hard" for my tastes. That problem went away with FW13 & FW14 and after that it's been happiness.

Now... FW18 seems to bring the feel aspect to another level entirely. :shock:
 
MMM..... you joined the forum in 2008 and you still haven't made up your mind??? Troll post IMO - please go to the kemper forum and ask them is you should buy an Axe Fx :p
 
Apples and Oranges. Find out what you need and make a choice. Its well written in both forums what the units are good for. The fact that this thread is in this forum and not in a silly ERG group puzzles me. :>

That awkward moment when you go to your friends house to profile his AxeFX :>>
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I just don´t understand why so many people get pissed during this discussion -I mean we´re all guitarplayers craving for the best possible tool to convey our ideas soundwise - why doesn´t it seem to be possible to have an unemotional neutral discussion about this topic - as I mentioned above on p2 - Kemper and AXE FX are both digital units to emulate - or maybe replace - Amps with some Effects - if you´re not allowed to compare THESE units which ones can you???? I think the most users and maybe also the developers of Kemper and AXE Fx know exactly that these units are in competition with each other and the reactions prove it - why not naming it? Of course I had to compare them (and chose the Axe) and many of my colleagues and students have to - these are not Apples and Oranges! The problems are that all the Varaibles (IRs, Programming, Profiles, FW, User...) that define the sound are hard to include in a scientific comparison....All in all - everything anybody says here to criticise the AXE FX can only help to improve it and some people should not react as if somone had touched their balls ! I will always choose the one that sounds better - now it´s the AXE FX - tomorrow? Who knows?
 
I think it goes without saying you will get a large number of Fractal supporters with a Q on this forum... just sayin :)

I've never understood the folks that have issue with not using all the features of the Fractal. I normally use just two amp models for any given run of shows. That's just two out of the 200. That doesn't bother me in the least.

For me the two boxes are somewhat a toss up in regards to the amps. With FW 17 and higher, the Fractal really holds its own against some recent popular profiles, like the Michael Britt stuff. Although I think Michael's 70's Marshall head is maybe better than Cliff's. But that is not a fault with the Fractal :)

The Fractal is a win for the efx and a win for the routing. It really is like a mini bradshaw rig in the box.
 
Heinzi said:
I just don´t understand why so many people get pissed during this discussion -I mean we´re all guitarplayers craving for the best possible tool to convey our ideas soundwise - why doesn´t it seem to be possible to have an unemotional neutral discussion about this topic - as I mentioned above on p2 - Kemper and AXE FX are both digital units to emulate - or maybe replace - Amps with some Effects - if you´re not allowed to compare THESE units which ones can you???? I think the most users and maybe also the developers of Kemper and AXE Fx know exactly that these units are in competition with each other and the reactions prove it - why not naming it? Of course I had to compare them (and chose the Axe) and many of my colleagues and students have to - these are not Apples and Oranges! The problems are that all the Varaibles (IRs, Programming, Profiles, FW, User...) that define the sound are hard to include in a scientific comparison....All in all - everything anybody says here to criticise the AXE FX can only help to improve it and some people should not react as if somone had touched their balls ! I will always choose the one that sounds better - now it´s the AXE FX - tomorrow? Who knows?
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It's been going on so long everyone is tired of hearing it. There are many of these discussions around and they prove nothing, so no need to start more. The only real solution is to try both because it all comes down to personal preference, unless you run off others opinions in which case you will never be satisfied anyway.
 
Here's what I see with these type of threads:

Coming onto a Axe FX OR a KPA board and asking for honest opinions about a comparison, or 'which is better' is asking who's the better band, Beatles or Rolling Stones? The answer is always yes.

Both are great products who have avid devotee's. Both clearly do their job very well. I can't decide if you want to be talked out of a KPA, or into an Axe FX. Either way, IT COMES DOWN TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE. I think both would work fine for you, but you'll get no 'AHA!' moment in any of these posts that will sway you unerringly one way or another. Or come into one of these places expecting anyone to 'talk you into it'.

I personally would pick the Axe FX, from the sheer standpoint of you may have simple needs now, but (like I did) once you find out all the deep capabilities in the unit, you can't help but want to use them.

IMO.
 
Realize that shipping charges (not just Fracal) often can include insurance, which as someone who ships about 10 items a week can tell you, often runs more than the cost of the actual shipping. I shipped a camera lens a few weeks ago worth around $2000, it weighted only 4lbs and wasn't a huge box, so I could of shipped it just in a USPS large priority box for like $15, but then insuring it was several times that amount. If you don't insure something though its only covered for $50, no matter if USPS loses it, smashes it etc. Basically zero recourse on my end, and I've been down that road as well.

Cost of shipping and insuring a rack size guitar FX processor is what it is. If that is a "deal breaker", then I'd say end of discussion. Enjoy your $50 savings and whatever other gear you end up buying, I'm sure in the long run your life will be all the better for that money you saved. Maybe frame it and put it on the way, with a plaque that dedicates it to avoiding a "cash grab" on shipping cost.

Everyone else will be playing and enjoying their Axe units
 
mbrown3 said:
Listen, I don't want to b!tch and moan about $80. But my Road King didn't even cost me $80 to ship, and that weighs 90lbs. It just seems like an insane amount for shipping, and when you factor it into the already-high/higher cost of the unit, it sticks in my craw.
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We don't set the shipping costs, UPS does. Our online store connects to their server and fetches the shipping cost. The weight or size of an item is only one factor in the cost. Insurance ends up being a significant portion.
 
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