Axe-FX 3 vs FM3 for Bass Guitar

haloll

Member
Hi all,

I'm not sure this is the right subforum (first post), but here goes my questions.

I'm considering getting an Axe-FX 3 or FM3 to use as my main bass rig. I have a couple of questions about the differences between them, and the whole fractal platform in general.

1) Is IR smoothing beneficial for bass impulse responses? Or does it mainly just matter for guitar sounds? And what is the fixed IR length required for the FM3?

2) Is there any type of pre-amp block outside of the amp/cab blocks? One potential idea I have for a tone path is doing a DI plus Amp signal inside the unit, with something like compression -> preamp -> EQ for the DI path, and drive/compression -> amp -> cab -> modulation effects for the main sound path. To my knowledge, the only preamps are inside of the amp/cab blocks, so if I wanted to be able to have a preamp active while using the main amp/cab, I'm pretty much required to go with the Axe FX 3 due to the 1 amp/cab limitation on the FM3, unless there are other ways to get preamps outside of the amp/cab blocks.

3) Will variable input impedance matter for bass? I plan to plug in directly from my Dingwall ABZ 4 (passive bass, no active preamp) into whatever fractal unit I get

4) Does the FM3 support the block level meter views?

5) From the wiki article comparing FM3 vs Axe FX 3: "Reverb on the FM3 defaults to "Economy" quality mode.". Do any other blocks default to economy, and can they be changed to high quality if desired?

6) How impactful are the "dynamic presence/depth, input dynamic processing" features that are removed on the FM3? Not sure if those are commonly modified parameters or if these would basically never be touched by me as a bass player

If anyone has any other insight on choosing the appropriate fractal platform for bass, please feel free to chime in.
 
For most people the Axe-Fx 3 is overkill. Most don't need that many instances of different effects, stereo amps etc in a single preset. The FM3 can do a lot as is and is IMO the more appropriate model for most users.

Dual amps to me is one of the bigger things you will miss with the FM3 but most don't use that and using the channels feature you can use 4 different amps in a single preset anyway.

For bass you have a lot of options on how to route things. You can split signals after amp and cab sims, run a separate DI signal with its own effects etc. The FM3 can do all this.

FM3 does have the meter views.

Reverb can be set to higher than economy mode with the appropriate DSP consumption increase. The difference is subtle so you might notice it when using headphones at home but not in live use. Even then the economy mode sounds great and is just as good or better as pretty much anything else on the market.

Otherwise economy modes are not found in much more than the mic preamp sim in the cab block, again with the option to set a higher option.
 
I'll take a stab at #6.

I could just be dumb or missing something, but I have a clean preset (well, scene within a preset, technically) in my Axe Fx III that sounds fat and mean, and has a little hair and is very bright and bold; feels very good under the fingers. When I port the EXACT preset over to the FM3, it sounds quieter, anemic, and lacks everything that I love about the Axe Fx III version. I've made sure to use the same IR, the same settings in EVERY block, and the ONLY thing that's different is the input dynamics is missing from the FM3 version. I can't confirm that this is the reason for the dramatic difference in tone, as the FM3 lacks other input-related settings, but I strongly suspect this is the culprit. This weekend, I'm going to post it and see if any other users can maybe sus out why the FM3 version sounds so much different.

All that said, I can twist knobs and tweak to get a still very satisfying clean tone on the FM3 that mimics my Axe III's preset, but it's still not quite the same.
 
I'll take a stab at #6.

I could just be dumb or missing something, but I have a clean preset (well, scene within a preset, technically) in my Axe Fx III that sounds fat and mean, and has a little hair and is very bright and bold; feels very good under the fingers. When I port the EXACT preset over to the FM3, it sounds quieter, anemic, and lacks everything that I love about the Axe Fx III version. I've made sure to use the same IR, the same settings in EVERY block, and the ONLY thing that's different is the input dynamics is missing from the FM3 version. I can't confirm that this is the reason for the dramatic difference in tone, as the FM3 lacks other input-related settings, but I strongly suspect this is the culprit. This weekend, I'm going to post it and see if any other users can maybe sus out why the FM3 version sounds so much different.

All that said, I can twist knobs and tweak to get a still very satisfying clean tone on the FM3 that mimics my Axe III's preset, but it's still not quite the same.

Can you post both presets and I’ll have a look. I have FM3 and AxeFX IIIand am interested in minimising any difference in sounds between them.
 
Please also clarify if your FM3 is pre-Cygnus or not. At the present moment the FM3 and AX3 should be fairly close in terms of tone now.
 
I could just be dumb or missing something, but I have a clean preset (well, scene within a preset, technically) in my Axe Fx III that sounds fat and mean, and has a little hair and is very bright and bold; feels very good under the fingers. When I port the EXACT preset over to the FM3, it sounds quieter, anemic, and lacks everything that I love about the Axe Fx III version.
If the difference isn't UltraRes vs. Standard Res (you should check, since UltraRes was just added to the FM3!) ...then I suspect you might be doing something wrong.
 
6) How impactful are the "dynamic presence/depth, input dynamic processing" features that are removed on the FM3?
Dynamic Depth and Presence were so non-impactful that they were removed from the Axe-Fx III.

I never use Input Dynamics on Axe-Fx bass presets, and I've designed them for/with Dave Matthews Band, Dream Theater, Taylor Swift, Rush, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, and many more.
 
Can you post both presets and I’ll have a look. I have FM3 and AxeFX IIIand am interested in minimising any difference in sounds between them.
To clarify, it's just one preset - I had to rework it to come close to the desired tone in the FM3.

Please also clarify if your FM3 is pre-Cygnus or not. At the present moment the FM3 and AX3 should be fairly close in terms of tone now.
It's not pre-Cygnus; it's the 4.00 b3, and sadly, they're nowhere close in tone.

If the difference isn't UltraRes vs. Standard Res (you should check, since UltraRes was just added to the FM3!) ...then I suspect you might be doing something wrong.
Nope; both using ultrares, both have identical block settings. I would have thought, then, that the only other difference would be input gain settings, but increasing the input gain in the amp block doesn't replicate the sweet edge-of-edge-of-edge-of breakup I get in my Axe Preset.

I don't mean to derail this thread; here's a new thread discussing this: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-iii-preset-sounds-different-on-fm3.173819/
 
#2 - there is a FET Preamp in the drive block that I use as a clean/di style path for my bass when I'm using the amp block for OD/Fuzz/Distorted tones on the FM3. On my FX3 I would just use 2 amp blocks.
 
I’ve been doing a bunch of additional reading, so with that plus the answers here I’m mostly good.
The one question I do have that is yet to be answered is if there is a way to get a channel strip like preamp outside of the amp or cab block. I’ve been looking through the blocks documentation but have not covered all of it yet.

I think I could potentially get away with just the FM3 if there was another way to get a preamp from a non-amp/cab block, say from a drive or EQ block. I really don’t use that much stomp wise for my stuff, usually just a drive and/or chorus, so the footswitch layout of the FM3 is perfect for me. However, given how bass tones can usually have a DI or slightly altered DI along with a main amp sound in parallel, I’m worried that the single amp/cab restriction on the FM3 might limit potential routing.
 
Dynamic Depth and Presence were so non-impactful that they were removed from the Axe-Fx III.

I never use Input Dynamics on Axe-Fx bass presets, and I've designed them for/with Dave Matthews Band, Dream Theater, Taylor Swift, Rush, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, and many more.

For the bass tones you’ve done, are they usually complex parallel path setups? Or just a single signal through amp/cab plus other blocks
 
#2 - there is a FET Preamp in the drive block that I use as a clean/di style path for my bass when I'm using the amp block for OD/Fuzz/Distorted tones on the FM3. On my FX3 I would just use 2 amp blocks.
I guess you beat my follow up question by a few seconds lol
 
I guess you beat my follow up question by a few seconds lol
There are probably plenty of other drive models that would probably make suitable pre-amps as well, but I actually use that one and it works very well for me.
 
There are probably plenty of other drive models that would probably make suitable pre-amps as well, but I actually use that one and it works very well for me.
After seeing a video showing the EQ/graphic EQ pages in the drive block, it seems like any of the pre-amp ish drive modes would be able to fulfill the clean preamp requirement.
 
It really depends upon if you want to build bi-amp rigs using the crossover block.

If you do want to do that, the FM3 is not the tool you want since it cannot do that (run two simultaneous amps with a crossover block fine tuning which frequency ranges go to which amp).
 
There are probably plenty of other drive models that would probably make suitable pre-amps as well, but I actually use that one and it works very well for me.
Timothy and Tone of Kings are great, too; it's worth taking the time to look up the different diode types, for instance try swapping in a germanium 1N34A on either side of the symmetrical diode layout and see if you like the texture that gives you, and so on.
 
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It really depends upon if you want to build bi-amp rigs using the crossover block.

If you do want to do that, the FM3 is not the tool you want since it cannot do that (run two simultaneous amps with a crossover block fine tuning which frequency ranges go to which amp).

I guess a good question is: is a single bass amp model usually good enough for a solid tone, or is bi-amping the preferred way to go the majority of the time?
 
I guess a good question is: is a single bass amp model usually good enough for a solid tone, or is bi-amping the preferred way to go the majority of the time?
It all depends if you were used to doing it in real life. For every Geddy Lee or Jaco using one amp, there's a Billy Sheehan or Doug Wimbish who bi-amp.

There's no right or wrong in either approach, it's all about hearing the tones in your head.
 
Bi-amping is definitely the way to go for grindy modern bass tones. Clean bottom with a little compression. Distorted top. Check out my preset in the Preset Exchange forum for an example.
 
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