Axe-Fx 3 > Poweramp Fryette Powerstation > Celestion F12 X200

Just out of interest 6, in case it isn't actually blown,

Does your speaker sound like this example, If you had a Pa speaker with a blown tweeter but the bass driver was fine?

This is the best description I can think of.

Im in contact with the engineers at Celestion as we speak, but due to Covid-19 they are all working from home. I rang and spoke to their customer service dept. this morning. They seemed surprised to hear from me as here in the uk the customer service is email only!

All I can say is that the guy I spoke to seemed very amiable and explained that until the pandemic is over, Customer service and all engineers are working from home only.

There didn't seem to be a problem if I wanted to claim a refund. If anyone else feels they have similar issues?

Only saying this as there seems to be a lot of negative information regarding Celestion Customer Service circulating.

This was not my experience today.

They are based about 1 hours drive away from me in Ipswich. Which is ideal for me, because If I don't get it resolved, I will take my gear over there and let them hear it first hand.

I will get to the bottom of this, and I'm sure 666, your speaker is working perfectly, and that's how I would like mine to be, as its the perfect Speaker for my application I just think it could be something component-wise in my speaker that malfunctioning rather than tweaking my Axe fx.
I've tried everything I can think of?
If you do have any ideas on what I can try to fault find this issue 666, please would you let me know, as I definitely will try it.
Thanks mate.
 
All I can say is that the highs are not attracting attention in any way, and that's a good thing.
When I use guitar poweramps to drive it, I need to turn presence down a bit to avoid hyped highs and get the response curve flat, but even then they do not sound broken.

Hm...Whenever I got mad highs in the last time it came from my wireless getting overdriven from a guitar with too much signal. That's something that I'd call broken highs.
 
Ok 666,

Thanks for the help, I will try eliminating some highs from the signal and see what happens. Maybe I could have too much high frequency in the signal?

Where would this high frequency be coming from?

Looking at the Charts for the speaker on the Celestion Website I see nothing on there that would suggest I need to radically change much?

What settings do you suggest I take a look at please?

When I use my conventional Cabs > Celestion Cream back and Ev12L they sound absolutely Stella. There is no speaker distortion whatsoever in my sound. The Presets are well balanced with no extreme settings anywhere as I don't need any crazy EQ. My amp block serves as enough Eq for anything I ever need. I dont even use Graphic eq on the amp. I just dont need it.

To test your theory, I have previously tried dialling out all of the curve in the amp block and also set the cabinet IR between 60Hz and 8000hz. The problem still persists.

I have even turned down the Ir Frequency range to 4000HZ. All that happens in that instance, is the Distorted part of the sound becomes "darker" as expected. It doesn't actually take away the distorted element of the sound I am experiencing?

Whatever I try does not cure the problem. A speaker should not be so far removed from the norm as to be this difficult to dial in otherwise guitar players everywhere would be complaining as I am, that their sound is terrible and you will need some sort of EQ workaround in order to use one of these.

Im sure Celestion would have acted on this, or at least ensured that a properly working speaker would work correctly under normal working conditions using various Modelling amps. More than likely the Axe fx included?

Out of interest, What happens to your speaker if you cut everything under say 3000hz and turn your amp up to maximum?
 
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Ugly highs are often coming from an overdriven semiconductor, an input stage of a preamp, a console or alike. Rarely also passive parts can have bad contacts and work like a capacitor, but then the lows miss.

When you go from a passive guitar via cable into the Axe-Fx, then poweramp, then speaker, then there's not much to worry about besides the poweramp and what happens inside the Axe-Fx.

Oh. You shouldn't do that, cutting below 3k and crank the volume up. A 200W 2 2way speaker is calculated the way that the bass speaker can handle up to 150W and the tweeter can handle up to 50W. You could blow it when you put 200W plain highs on it.

I could run music through mine later when I get home and listen how that sounds. I'm curious about that. A flat system should sound at least ok that way, but who knows...
 
666,

Do you know if this Speaker has a separate Tweeter?

I presumed that being predominantly a guitar focussed speaker would mean that it doesn't have a conventional tweeter. At least I didn't notice one when I mounted it?

I realise you shouldn't run high frequencies in that way but that's why I asked because on the speaker all the frequencies roughly above that point sound distorted. Even at low relatively low volumes.

As I said previously, My Power amp is only 60w
 
The internet says the crossover is at 3k. Ok. Reliable source, where do they have it from?
No matter, that explains why I love it. The 12" speaker is allowed to display most of the portion and it's built like a guitar speaker, good strategy. The systems with a low crossover feel far different.
 
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I tried the F12-X200. Tossed it in a Mesa Thiele cab. I didn't get the smooth FRFR-ish experience I was hoping for. More recently I picked up a clean used QSC K10.2 - I am a lot happier.
 
neale dunham said:
Sounds like my Tweeter is Blown then.
Click to expand...

Beat me to it - exactly my thought also .... tweeter and / or crossover at least :)

JamesBWood said:
I tried the F12-X200. Tossed it in a Mesa Thiele cab. I didn't get the smooth FRFR-ish experience I was hoping for. More recently I picked up a clean used QSC K10.2 - I am a lot happier.
Click to expand...

A F12 and a K10.2 each running the same IR are going to sound vastly different from each other ...... glad you found what works for you best :)

Out of curiosity, what amp were you running the F12 with (?)

Ben
 
Sounds to me as if these speakers are a bit of a lottery.

Not sure if a Mesa cab would deliver the right results. Celestion do have a recommended cabinet that you can build to their specifications on their website. It remains to be seen if it works any better.

I have built the cabinet but yet to have a speaker that works to put in it!
 
The cabinet housing always affects the lows only. The highs shouldn't get influenced.
I had mine in two different housings a big open back cab and s small open back cab and I liked both versions, both got me some combo sound to fill the room also with the sound from the open back, the way I like it.

Could it be, that ones that love the speaker are celestion biased and the ones that don't prefer celedtion also don't like the fullrange version. All IRs that I like are based on celestions, so as long as it sounds like a celestion it's good for me...
 
You could have a point there 666,

However I fall into the Celestion biased camp and this Speaker does not sound like a traditional Celestion. it sounds just like a blown speaker.
 
neale dunham said:
You could have a point there 666,

However I fall into the Celestion biased camp and this Speaker does not sound like a traditional Celestion. it sounds just like a blown speaker.
Click to expand...
It's a full range speaker. 60-20Khz range. A t75, for example; is 80-5khz in range. Your tweeter could be blown or there could be a manufacturing defect. From what I have read from a few people; they will replace it if it is a defective unit. You may still might not like it; but you should be able to sell it if nothing else.
 
ben ifin said:
Beat me to it - exactly my thought also .... tweeter and / or crossover at least :)



A F12 and a K10.2 each running the same IR are going to sound vastly different from each other ...... glad you found what works for you best :)

Out of curiosity, what amp were you running the F12 with (?)

Ben
Click to expand...
Matrix GT1000FX
 
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Recently I bought a Dr Z Best 2x12 cabinet. This brings the total of my speaker cabs to 4. I took the opportunity to shuffle some speakers around.

This included the F12-X200. I had problems with it in the past but this time it performed as expected in the 1x12. It does take IRs quite well. Would I keep using it? No. It lacks the sonic depth of my regular speaker cabs and I don't like what it does to the mids. Also, using IRs in a non-FRFR cab adds variables to the chain I'm not looking for. But all in all, it povides a viable way to use IRs while keeping some of the cab-in-the-room magic.


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Just a quick update.......So after much Covid Exclusion, I was finally able to speak to someone at Celestion about my Speaker Issue. They asked me to return the Speaker to which I did.

Low and Behold, the email I received today basically outlined what I thought was coming......

"We have extensively tested your speaker at various volume levels using our in-house Axe fx and can find no issue with your Speaker.

What a surprise eh?

Now my conundrum is where to take it next?

If Celestion are saying the speaker is performing normally, then I will have to take another look at my rig for certain.

Is there anything anyone can think of that I can look at or change, within my AF3 that could be causing this issue??

Or has anyone else experienced this issue? Because if I can rule out the Axe fx then maybe its the power amp??? I doubt it could be, but what other explanation is there???

Maybe, just maybe, my Fryette Powerstation 2 is not compatible with this type of speaker? I'm clutching at straws here, but if there are no parameters within my Axe FX I can change to eliminate the "Blown Speaker" effect then do I believe Celestion? Or is it the Poweramp doing some crazy stuff? Or even a setting within the Axe fx that needs to be changed when using this type of speaker?

Any ideas would be mighty appreciated.

Many Thanks.
 
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