Axe-Edit not saving preset changes in 'Manage'

[NattyBar]

I frequently rearrange presets based on setlists and as I create different songs, sounds, tones, etc. Today I encountered a bug where the changes I made inside the 'Manage' section of Axe-Edit weren't being saved regardless of how many times I hit 'Save'. The majority of the movements did save however two or three stayed red and did not save. See image.

If I exited out of Manage and back into Presets the movements I did for those red slots did not save and even after multiple attempts I couldn't get it to work. Restarted the unit and Axe-Edit... still no change. I ended up moving a couple of presets around by saving them on the front panel to different slots and then clearing the old present.

On occasion - I had noticed that I could hit save and there may be a preset or two that stays red and doesn't turn to the green saved status. Normally once you hit save again those slots are updated and everything is golden. Not this time though - anyone else experienced this?

 

[ARF]

Yes, same thing here….since 19.01. No way around it that I have found. I posted a thread about it in Axe Edit awhile back as a bug….got some replies but no solutions. Been avoiding manage presets since.

Maybe this thread will attract attention to this.

Here my post of Feb 6:

Hello....having an issue with restoring recent backup.

The backup was done with Fractal_bot (3.0.13)....all Banks....AXE-FX3 (19.01) a week ago. All resulting files looked fine in finder and no error messages.

Today I try to restore the first 26 presets from Bank A through Manage Presets in AxeEdit (1.10.07) and get the following:

1/ Drag 26 presets from browser bar to Preset Slots 0-25....hit save....save process starts but about 25% of the presets are still shown as red after completion.
2/ Closing at this point gives unsaved changes warning and indeed the 25% that were red do not port to AX3 which still has what was originally in those slots.
3/ Try to save one of the problem presets as a single preset through Preset Manager and get same result, regardless of target slot.
4/ Click on the preset in Manager Browser and Audition it....sends to AX3 edit buffer....close manager.....preset is in edit buffer and plays fine and can be saved.

So I can retrieve the presets but only by individually auditioning them from Browser and then saving them from edit buffer outside of Manager.

Strange.....

Any ideas appreciated...thanks.

 

[langohr]

Same thing here.

On copying, deleting or rearranging a bunch of presets some of the changes are saved. Others are not.

Sometimes all changes are saved.
Sometimes a large number up to -say- 30% of the changes are not saved.

Sometimes some of the previously failed presets -but never more than very few- are saved after a second attempt to save them.
Some changes refuse to be saved at all.

I cannot figure out any specific rule of the game.
From my point of view it seems to occur randomly on random presets.

No error message, etc. visible.

I changed all USB-related components, Hardware and Software.
The result remains the same.

Presently, the only cure for me is to avoid „Manage“ Presets.

 

[ARF]

Agreed.....no discernible pattern either in target slots or Preset choice. Happens fairly regularly to me now to the point of never using manage presets. Drag!!

The "red" presets are also not corrupt as you can auto-preview them and then save from edit buffer.

Also jumped through all "change cables, reinstall etc" hoops. Currently on 19.06Beta with AxeEdit 1.11 has been doing this for me since 19.01.

My guess is we have a memory concatenation issue.

 

[NattyBar]

Obviously this isn’t an isolated case then!

@FractalAudio @Admin M@

Anything we can provide to help track this down?

 

[Admin M@]

I just tried a few large operations here 180 presets/move and then 360 presets/swap and had no problems.

Please provide any other details that might help us to investigate this.
Do any of the presets you're moving have extremely high CPU levels?

Is this Axe-Edit Mac or Windows?

I'm tagging @Michael Pickens to follow along.

 

[ARF]

Hello Mat…..Mac on my side.

Yes, some presets around 80% CPU range. It however is not specific to any preset. It seems totally random and looks to me like a memory allocation thing. Only ever an issue through the manage preset interface never by any other store method.

 

[NattyBar]

I just tried a few large operations here 180 presets/move and then 360 presets/swap and had no problems.

Please provide any other details that might help us to investigate this.
Do any of the presets you're moving have extremely high CPU levels?

Is this Axe-Edit Mac or Windows?

I'm tagging @Michael Pickens to follow along.

Similar to my experience. There might be a tendency for this to occur on some presets that do have a higher CPU (80-85%) usage however it's also presenting on others with ~70-75%... not isolated to high CPU scenario.

There's no issue in loading, saving, or clearing the 'unsaveable' preset when opened in Axe-Edit and as I mentioned there are no issues when during so on the front panel. It has only presented for me inside the 'Manage' function.

I'm on FW19.05 and v1.10.11 Axe-Edit operating MacOS Monterey MBP.

 

[langohr]

I just tried a few large operations here 180 presets/move and then 360 presets/swap and had no problems.

Please provide any other details that might help us to investigate this.
Do any of the presets you're moving have extremely high CPU levels?

Is this Axe-Edit Mac or Windows?

I'm tagging @Michael Pickens to follow along.

Axe-Edit Windows. OS = Windows 11.

Happens with FW since ca. Version 19 plus according Editor.

USB-Firmware is latest version (5.11).

Most of the Presets I was moving have not extremely but fairly high CPU levels of 75 …. 80 %. Not above.

Absolutely no problems happen with those Presets in editing, playing and saving via Edit Menu. Never had a problem here.

The problem in „Manager“ happened at a test with factory presets as well.
A second test with all (!) factory presets went without any problems.
A third test with the same factory presets failed again.

Seems to happen randomly.

EDIT of error in text above:

USB-Driver is 5.30.
USB-Firmware is 1.11

I'm just about doing more test. Further results to come soon ....

 

[langohr]

@Michael Pickens , @Admin M@

I ran the following tests today.

Environment:

• Firmware 19.06 beta
• Editor 1.11.00
• USB Driver 5.30
• USB Firmware 1.11
• Factory Presets 19.04
• 19 own Presets

Tests:

1. Test 1: delete all Factory Presets on Locations 129 - 512
2. Test 2: install all Factory Presets on Locations 129 - 512
3. Test 3: copy Presets from 129 - 512; paste to 128 - 511
4. Test 4: cut Presets 128 -511; paste to 129 - 512
5. Test 5: drag 19 own Presets from 100 - 118; drop to 50 - 68
6. Test 6: drag 19 own Presets from 50 - 68, drop to 100-118

All tests succeeded without any problem.

From my point of view with the environment mentioned above the problem seems to have gone.

Case dismissed.

 

[ARF]

Decided to also do some tests:

Environment:

Firmware 19.06Beta / Editor 1.11.00 / Factory Presets 19.04 / MacBook Pro / 33 own Presets

Tests:

1. Normal Manager based import of my 33 presets from Fractal Bot archive (done today) into different slots.
Result: 20% "red/missing" presets after save, random disbursement no CPU % pattern.

2. Decided to nuke all presets to purge all preset memory: (select all / clear / save) in Manager.
Result: out of the 512 now empty slots, two showed "red/missing" (slot 58 and 407).

3. Manually (not in Manage Presets) replaced the two above presets with empty presets. Now have 512 empty presets.

4. Restore Factory bank A (through Manager) to slots 383-511.
Results: All 128 restored properly. Surprised me.

5. Restore my 33 presets (through Manager) that were all exported as singles from AXE Edit without using Manager.
Results: All 33 restored properly. Surprise again.

6. Restore the same 33 presets (through Manager) this time from the Fractal Bot created Bank archive that failed in test 1.
Results: All 33 restored properly, though took about twice as long as the exported singles versions.

7. Random memory slot position swaps and name tweaks within Manager of presets in AXE (no browser imports) of about 50 presets.
Results: 2 of the swaps are "red/missing", (one of which was an empty preset) after save. Arrrghhh!!??

My conclusion: Wiping the preset memory clean seems to have made Manager behave properly when bringing in Presets either from existing Banks or as single (exported) presets. This is a huge improvement over the previous state of things.

However, going in to Manager to actually "manage" existing saved presets (no browser), doing things like renaming and moving presets around still causes issues. Copying the "red" presets to another empty slot and saving did however save them properly which was not the case before.

My guess is that there is some glitch in how Manager keeps track of available memory/preset size/concatenation when many presets are being rearranged at once within Manager.

That's my 2 cents for the day.

Cheers

 

[Admin M@]

EDIT: I corrected my own misunderstanding here: the FM9-Edit fix has nothing to do with this case.

The comment by @ARF is interesting in that it suggests bad presets could be involved; both Michael and I are testing with factory presets and our own custom presets.

Those of you having problems: are you using factory presets (stock or modifier)? 3rd party presets? Custom presets? Di you ever use any 3rd party app to modify your preset data?

 

[ARF]

Hello....

I have a little bit of everything....modified factory presets, modified Fremen and Austin presets, Axe Change and home grown. Most tend to end up in the 70-82% CPU range (always below 85% red zone). Mostly use factory cabs though I do use some YA packs (cab slot memory is about 20% full). No custom IR builds.

I have never used anything except AXE-Edit and Fractal-Bot to create, modify or store anything.

I keep up with all Firmware and Edit updates as well as Fractal Bot (synchronized releases).

All presets use 2 Input blocks and all 4 Output blocks. Analog inputs/outputs only.

Not sure how you define "bad" presets here. They all work without fail once stored on the AXE III MK1 no issues with performance or even processor slow downs. I've had presets in the past that bog down the connection between computer and AXE III but have rebuilt any that do this.

Use a few Global blocks but not as a rule.

Have an FC6 that figures heavily in manipulating presets (Global layout build with per-preset tweaks). Lots of modifiers using CS 1-6 and expression pedals on all presets.

When the problem presents while "managing" presets it happens even to empty slots and factory stock presets, not just my edits. Again, my thought is that the memory buffering while moving things around and renaming within Manager looses track of sizes and available space.

Let me know if you want me to run other tests.

Cheers


Alex

 

[Michael Pickens]

Hello....

I have a little bit of everything....modified factory presets, modified Fremen and Austin presets, Axe Change and home grown. Most tend to end up in the 70-82% CPU range (always below 85% red zone). Mostly use factory cabs though I do use some YA packs (cab slot memory is about 20% full). No custom IR builds.

I have never used anything except AXE-Edit and Fractal-Bot to create, modify or store anything.

I keep up with all Firmware and Edit updates as well as Fractal Bot (synchronized releases).

All presets use 2 Input blocks and all 4 Output blocks. Analog inputs/outputs only.

Not sure how you define "bad" presets here. They all work without fail once stored on the AXE III MK1 no issues with performance or even processor slow downs. I've had presets in the past that bog down the connection between computer and AXE III but have rebuilt any that do this.

Use a few Global blocks but not as a rule.

Have an FC6 that figures heavily in manipulating presets (Global layout build with per-preset tweaks). Lots of modifiers using CS 1-6 and expression pedals on all presets.

When the problem presents while "managing" presets it happens even to empty slots and factory stock presets, not just my edits. Again, my thought is that the memory buffering while moving things around and renaming within Manager looses track of sizes and available space.

Let me know if you want me to run other tests.

Cheers


Alex

If possible, could you submit steps to reproduce the issue (ie, provide the order and locations to which you are moving and renaming the presets)?

 

[ARF]

Most of the time this is my work flow:

I have 4 sets of presets that are my go-to presets (guitar specific). They live in the first 4 columns that display in Manager. This is where "finished" preset tweaks live for playing, not editing (00-25 LesPaul, 26-51 Taylor etc). I have about 10 presets in each meaning that the rest of the slots in that column are empty for future use.

The 5th-8th columns are my edit space for each guitar. I copy the preset I'm working on to this area and start tweaking and saving in consecutive slots as I go. Once I have some things I like I go into Manage to edit names and move them into slots in the 4 master columns....maybe sequentially maybe swapping with existing versions in those columns. This way I always end up with "approved" edits living in the first 4 columns and organized by guitar the way I want.

So to recap: Columns 1-4 are finals....columns 5-8 are edit buffers for works in progress. Columns 9-end are used to store various Factory, Fremen, Austin etc. stock presets that may be moved into columns 5-8 for editing and then eventually into columns 1-4 once I'm happy with an edit.

Does that make sense?

 

[Michael Pickens]

Most of the time this is my work flow:

I have 4 sets of presets that are my go-to presets (guitar specific). They live in the first 4 columns that display in Manager. This is where "finished" preset tweaks live for playing, not editing (00-25 LesPaul, 26-51 Taylor etc). I have about 10 presets in each meaning that the rest of the slots in that column are empty for future use.

The 5th-8th columns are my edit space for each guitar. I copy the preset I'm working on to this area and start tweaking and saving in consecutive slots as I go. Once I have some things I like I go into Manage to edit names and move them into slots in the 4 master columns....maybe sequentially maybe swapping with existing versions in those columns. This way I always end up with "approved" edits living in the first 4 columns and organized by guitar the way I want.

So to recap: Columns 1-4 are finals....columns 5-8 are edit buffers for works in progress. Columns 9-end are used to store various Factory, Fremen, Austin etc. stock presets that may be moved into columns 5-8 for editing and then eventually into columns 1-4 once I'm happy with an edit.

Does that make sense?

Organizationally, this does make sense.

What I am really looking for is a step-by-step reproduction that exhibits the bug such as:
1) Move preset 000 to 020
2) Swap preset 001 and 021
3) Rename preset 021
4) Click Save
5) Note that preset 020 is still red.

[Please notes that these steps are fictituous in order to provide an example.]

 

[AndrewJay]

I cannot provide as clear and concise information as others have on this thread, but I can confirm that this is happening to me as well. And by "this" I mean I will save a preset and in the Manager, it says "Empty." However, if I click on it, it loads the preset as I saved it. It does not seem to affect changes I've made to presets that I've made past a certain point, although I have not been observant enough to provide any more detail than that.

Info: Windows 10 64
Axe III: 19.06 Beta (although it has been occurring for some time. I'm not sure when I first noticed.)
Axe Edit: 1.11.00

Presets: I rarely check out Factory Presets, so I cannot speak to that. I use my own and the only third party anything are two IRs within the Cab Block. I have set templates that I like to use, the only difference is whether they are optimized for a PA and cab or direct.

Thank you everyone on this thread for your invested time in providing such detail into this issue.

 

[Michael Pickens]

On a related note: Is any one playing USB audio or playing their guitar through the Axe-Fx III when the bug occurs?

 

[ARF]

My set-up with respect to routing is:

Input 1: Analog 1/4" front panel input guitar
Input 2: Analog Stereo XLR return from UA Arrow interface.
Output 1: Analog Stereo XLR to main speakers.
Output 2: Analog Stereo XLR to UA Arrow Analog inputs.
Output 3: Analog Mono 1/4" out to Mesa Amp in 1.
Output 4: Analog Mono 1/4" out to Mesa Amp in 2.

XLR FastLink to FC6.

No USB or digital audio connections used other than for communications with computer.

I will try to do specific examples when I can. Generally there is no pattern with respect to target slots or source material being moved or replaced. It seems totally random and tends to happen most when many things are being rearranged in one Manager session. If I move/swap one or two presets it is unlikely to happen, if I move 10 or more and change names and delete unneeded edits....thats when it happens. At this point I am stuck in Manage mode with no way out other than to try different slots for the red presets which works 50% of the time.

 

[yek]

One approach to documenting the bug, is to run QuickTime (if you're on a Mac) all the time, capturing the screen.