Axe DAW/Direct Discussion Forum

Would you want a forum specific to DAW/Direct usage of the Axe?

  • Total voters
    25
C

CudBucket

Inspired
It's a fact that an Axe preset will not sound the same through your DAW or direct to near-field monitors as it would through a real amp and cab or FRFR. A forum where using the Axe specifically for recording would be great. Set up tips, preset tips, etc.

For me, this aspect of the Axe has been a headache. And I find that many others encounter the same thing. I think it'd be an active forum.

Dave
 
Hope to get some more votes here. I would imagine that a forum like this could result in some DAW/Direct-specific changes to the Axe down the line.
 
I dunno about a separate forum if you mean fractal has to make another forum which I see as unlikely. If you mean like its own separate section on this forum I can see it happening. It would help out people since it sounds different through reference monitors (or in my case studio headphones). Then again, Yek's wiki does cover this area more or less. Plus if it does happen, I dunno how long it'll take to modify the forum site so that it'll be fully debugged and all the other nonsense. It also means the mods got one more area to patrol and keep in mind they do have lives and mod us without pay.

That's my 2 cents.
 
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CudBucket said:
It's a fact that an Axe preset will not sound the same through your DAW or direct to near-field monitors as it would through a real amp and cab or FRFR.
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Near-field monitors are FRFR. The differences in sound have to do with volume differences, and differences in accuracy between speakers. They're not affected by whether there's a DAW involved.

The DAW comes into play when recording or mixing. In those applications, it's all about mixing techniques. Those techniques aren't specific to the Axe-FX, and I don't think they warrant their own forum.
 
Rex said:
Near-field monitors are FRFR. The differences in sound have to do with volume differences, and differences in accuracy between speakers. They're not affected by whether there's a DAW involved.

The DAW comes into play when recording or mixing. In those applications, it's all about mixing techniques. Those techniques aren't specific to the Axe-FX, and I don't think they warrant their own forum.
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Good point actually. Also, Mic pres alter the sound and that's another thing that isn't axe involved. That would be a Mic pre/ interface issue.
 
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Sammetal91 said:
Really Jay? Are the speakers you make both for reference and stage use?
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My company manufactures both sound reinforcement and studio reference monitors. The powered monitor I use is actually more sonically transparent than the studio monitor I manufacture for an OEM customer. Almost all of my products are sufficiently neutral to function as reference monitors.

There is no intrinsic reason that stage speakers cannot be every bit as accurate as studio monitors.
 
I'm making the point that tweaking presets for a DAW and monitors is not fundamentally different from tweaking for a stage monitor. No separate forum is necessary. That's all.
 
By forum, I just mean another section. I mean is a section for "amps and cabs" really more useful than one for Direct usage? And Jay, I have to say, yours is the first post I've ever read here where someone claims their direct tone is exactly the same as their live tone. If you say so, I believe you of course, but the consensus has been that it's a foregone conclusion that you should not expect your live presets to translate to direct without changes.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
No separate forum is necessary.
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The poll results, so far, show otherwise. Actually, I'm surprised that 7 people have voted "No". This is what the Axe is supposed to excel at no? We have a section for "routings" and "amps and cabs". How is that more justified than a section to discuss setting up tones specifically for recording? The manual never gets updated so why not let us accumulate the info?

I'm just saying.

Dave
 
I don't think it would be necessary. I took the time to A/B my K12's vs. my Duet/HS80's and set the speakers themselves to sound very close to each other. Of course there are some differences between the speakers that would cause them to sound different and the Mic Pre's on the Apogee lend a different color to the tone, but I've got it so my tones translate very well.
 
CudBucket said:
By forum, I just mean another section. I mean is a section for "amps and cabs" really more useful than one for Direct usage?
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Yes. BTW, "Amps and cabs" includes any and all equipment used to amplify/reproduce the Axe-Fx. Note the subtitle of the forum.

And Jay, I have to say, yours is the first post I've ever read here where someone claims their direct tone is exactly the same as their live tone.
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If the two are different, then something is wrong in one or both of the signal chains. Given the relatively low cost of decent small reference monitors these days, the odds are pretty great that the culprit in such a case is the stage monitor.

but the consensus has been that it's a foregone conclusion that you should not expect your live presets to translate to direct without changes.
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The consensus, such as it is, is the result of inadequacies in the stage monitors in popular use by Axe-Fx owners. Sometimes it is possible to match the two with EQ (which should always be applied to the less transparent system), most often it is not. None of this is evidence that there is an intrinsic sonic difference between direct recording and live performance. There can be just as much difference between two different reference monitors as between a reference and a stage monitor. The principles are identical. No separate section required.
 
CudBucket said:
This is what the Axe is supposed to excel at no?
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Direct recording? It excels at both live and direct use. Cliff originally developed the design for live use, however.

We have a section for "routings" and "amps and cabs". How is that more justified than a section to discuss setting up tones specifically for recording?
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Because that is the same as setting up tones for any neutral FRFR system.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
Yes. BTW, "Amps and cabs" includes any and all equipment used to amplify/reproduce the Axe-Fx. Note the subtitle of the forum.

If the two are different, then something is wrong in one or both of the signal chains. Given the relatively low cost of decent small reference monitors these days, the odds are pretty great that the culprit in such a case is the stage monitor.

The consensus, such as it is, is the result of inadequacies in the stage monitors in popular use by Axe-Fx owners. Sometimes it is possible to match the two with EQ (which should always be applied to the less transparent system), most often it is not. None of this is evidence that there is an intrinsic sonic difference between direct recording and live performance. There can be just as much difference between two different reference monitors as between a reference and a stage monitor. The principles are identical. No separate section required.
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Jay, I understand your points but have to point out that I'm not comparing near-fields to stage monitors. I'm comparing near-fields to real guitar cabs. A live preset, and by live I mean Axe/poweramp/cab, does not translate to the direct scenario.
 
CudBucket said:
Actually, I'm surprised that 7 people have voted "No"...We have a section for "routings" and "amps and cabs". How is that more justified than a section to discuss setting up tones specifically for recording?
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Because "Routings" and "Amps and Cabs" are separate areas specific to the Axe-FX. Setting up a separate area that relates to recording tones would give the false impression that the presence of a DAW or other recording system changes your tone, but it doesn't; the difference in tone is cause by differences in speakers and volume levels. These topics have already been addressed in multiple threads, they apply over a broader area than just recording, and they are more appropriate for the "Amps and Cabs" section than for a new "Recording" section.

When you do adjust tones while recording, it's to make the tone sit better in the mix, and that applies to both recording and live music. That's mixing and mastering, which applies to every piece of musical equipment under the sun, not just the Axe-FX. There are entire forums dedicated to this discipline, and reproducing them here would offer little benefit.
 
CudBucket said:
Jay, I understand your points but have to point out that I'm not comparing near-fields to stage monitors. I'm comparing near-fields to real guitar cabs.
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Then you have to learn two separate disciplines, and it has nothing to do with the use of a DAW. It has everything to do with the difference between FRFR and guitar cabs. The Amps and Cabs forum serves that purpose quite well.

A live preset, and by live I mean Axe/poweramp/cab,
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Really? Here's a quote from your OP: "It's a fact that an Axe preset will not sound the same through your DAW or direct to near-field monitors as it would through a real amp and cab or FRFR.

Now you are arbitrarily - and incorrectly - limiting the definition of "live preset." My live presets are exactly the same ones I use to record. By live I mean Axe-Fx/FRFR system. The exact same principles apply. No additional forum is required.

does not translate to the direct scenario.
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See above. In the case of live use of guitar cabs, the only thing you need to use the same preset direct is an IR of the cab you're using live.
 
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CudBucket said:
Jay, I understand your points but have to point out that I'm not comparing near-fields to stage monitors. I'm comparing near-fields to real guitar cabs. A live preset, and by live I mean Axe/poweramp/cab, does not translate to the direct scenario.
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Then for you, "live" = amp & guitar cab, and "recording" = FRFR. That would take us even farther away from a "recorded sound" discussion. Either amp/cab or FRFR can be recorded or used live. Thorough discussion of that topic can be found in Amps and Cabs and in the WIKI.
 
Rex said:
Then for you, "live" = amp & guitar cab, and "recording" = FRFR. That would take us even farther away from a "recorded sound" discussion. Either amp/cab or FRFR can be recorded or used live. Thorough discussion of that topic can be found in Amps and Cabs and in the WIKI.
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Farther from recorded sound? No. That's exactly what I'm talking about and it's not specifically discussed in Amps and Cabs. But whatever.
 
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