Axe 3, you say? TigerSHARCs are phased out without replacement, it seems

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ElectricPhase said:
It may be wishful thinking on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fractal had stockpiled enough processors for a few years of production.
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These chips are still being sold, AD will be taking orders for almost a year from now. It's not something to worry about immediately.
 
2018 that's quite short. Guess FAS is informed since quite a moment already and on the front for developping a replacement solution. AX8 is with TS also ? If not there will still remain the plugin solution they seem to be working on, don't remember the thread I read that in. Howbeit, hardware like Axe FX suppressed (par of) tube solutions and will someday be suppressed by other (plain software ?) solutions, seems to be the inevitable future way. As long a I can continue playing guitar it might not change that much though. As far as they do have the software, no reason that there won't be a solution someday. That said, since the end of Digitech 2101 Artist series the first equivalent (Axe Fx I took about 10 years to arrive. Maybe better take care of our babies in the first time.
 
Ben Randolph said:
Well, this is certainly interesting. I know the TigerSHARC has been part of the AxeFX's DNA from day one. I'm sure Cliff and crew are prepared for this eventuality. I look forward to seeing what they have in store.

I'm just a web programmer, which is another real compared to what Fractal does, so I can't say how easy it would be to use another company's processor in the AxeFX. I do know the Helix is powered by a Freescale DSP which is supposed to be a beast, so I suppose there are alternatives.
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Helix uses the same DSP complement as the AX-8 (two SHARC 21469). The new Freescale DSP is anything but a "beast". It's fixed-point only. Yes, it has lots of MIPS but that's due to being massively parallel and focused on very specific processing tasks, namely cellphone base station processing. It wouldn't work as a general-purpose audio processor, at least not very well. The other Freescale products (like the one used in the Kemper) are nothing special and lag behind products from TI and Analog Devices.
 
I think this is where I ask the same question, because I never remember the answer from the previous thread along these lines:

Aren't modern "gamer" PC's, iMAC, or MacPro computers capable of running the Axe FX programming, and then we are just talking about the "sound card" to give us all the Ins and outs for use like a traditional Axe Fx?

What I'm saying is, so what if the TigerShark ceases to be made - don't modern computers possess the power to do the job? I mean, look at how many plug-ins can simultaneously run in a LOGIC or Pro Tools session? And aren't the effects blocks in the Axe, like "plugins" in a DAW?

I don't see a reason to worry that Cliff will run out of the technology to take the next step forward in his epiphanies, with more accurate and complex algorithms - I think computers can take him there.

Anyone? Bueller?
 
rodzimguitar68 said:
I think this is where I ask the same question, because I never remember the answer from the previous thread along these lines:

Aren't modern "gamer" PC's, iMAC, or MacPro computers capable of running the Axe FX programming, and then we are just talking about the "sound card" to give us all the Ins and outs for use like a traditional Axe Fx?

What I'm saying is, so what if the TigerShark ceases to be made - don't modern computers possess the power to do the job? I mean, look at how many plug-ins can simultaneously run in a LOGIC or Pro Tools session? And aren't the effects blocks in the Axe, like "plugins" in a DAW?

I don't see a reason to worry that Cliff will run out of the technology to take the next step forward in his epiphanies, with more accurate and complex algorithms - I think computers can take him there.

Anyone? Bueller?
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Desktop CPUs don't lend themselves to embedded applications. First of all they use copious amounts of power which, in turn, means they need cumbersome cooling devices. Secondly, and probably more importantly, the lifespan of these products is very short with processors being EOL often times in just a couple years.
 
Oh yeah...NOW, I remember.

I'm still not worried. But partially because I don't know what an embedded application is.

Can't you just make a software app that is the Axe FX in its entirety, that remains in the digital domain, the rest of the mojo is the high end A/D and D/A components that are high end grade parts, (which could be in the form of a sound card / digital interface connected to the computer running the Fractal app?

I'm not trying to offend you. I am just stupid, and obviously probably over-simplifying. So, really I'm asking, for clarification. The OP was characterizing the impending unavailability of the TigerShark, like you can't do your thing without it.

If the Axe FX is made into a software program, like a DAW, then it could operate across various computer platforms, provided the computer had the processing power to pull it off, thereby being immune to whatever changes/advances are occurring in the very short lifecycle of the ever-evolving world of computer processors.

Help me Tom Cruise, Help me Oprah....
 
rodzimguitar68 said:
Al, you and Cliff figure this out, and get back to me. I read about 3 paragraphs of the white paper.

I'm happy just cause I can adjust my own truss rod, and intonate properly.

A man has to know his limitations......
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Same for me, though I did develop an automation PLC card in Philips Netherlands for a learning stage....30 years ago. Time has changed. Also the price of the TI is close to 30% of the AD TS so I guess FAS has good reasons to have stuck with analog devices... In the ninetees the choice for a good AD/DA converter or optocoupler was almost obligatory Analog Devices, their chips were way better than anybody else's and/or lasted longer (less heat). Long long time ago. TI, why not.
 
A very sad development no matter, because I feel like needing to combine is a hassle and slows the firmware updates and future product development. I'll really be curious to see what is chosen as a replacement though.
 
I can see Cliff is up on what's happening. I'll wait to see what he comes up with. In the mean time my XL+ has a happy home and will carry me to the next generation, whatever that turns out to be. I'm cool.
 
FractalAudio said:
Helix uses the same DSP complement as the AX-8 (two SHARC 21469). The new Freescale DSP is anything but a "beast". It's fixed-point only. Yes, it has lots of MIPS but that's due to being massively parallel and focused on very specific processing tasks, namely cellphone base station processing. It wouldn't work as a general-purpose audio processor, at least not very well. The other Freescale products (like the one used in the Kemper) are nothing special and lag behind products from TI and Analog Devices.
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Thank you for the clarification. I was just going by the word of a friend from a conversation this morning. You guys know way more about the technicalities of this stuff and I do. I am quite happy with the Fractal ecosystem and plan to be so for years to come no matter what Fractal products await us.
 
For people in the US, here's a local version:

Comparing TI’s TMS320C6671 DSP with ADI’s ADSP-TS201S TigerSHARC® Processor
http://www.ti.com/lit/wp/sprabn8a/sprabn8a.pdf

@vangrieg You seem convinced that the sky is falling, despite that you admittedly don't know much about DSP, embedded systems, or computer architecture. Thanks.

One TigerSHARC: Latency L, Effects N
Two TigerSHARCs in parallel: Latency L, Effects 2N
Two TigerSHARCs in series: Latency 2L, Effects 2N

One SHARC: Latency L, Effects N/2 (say)
Two SHARCs in parallel: Latency L, Effects N
Two SHARCs in series: Latency 2L, Effects N

Also, a convolution reverb computes a weighted sum on a each cycle. Plenty of parallelism there -- if you can do a lot of multiply-adds at once, you don't need a fast clock.
 
I'm definitely curious to see how this pans out. That said, I have absolute faith that Cliff will find a solution, if he hasn't already thought of something.
 
faulknier said:
I have absolute faith that Cliff will find a solution, if he hasn't already thought of something.
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I'm sure he has thought of many things, although I doubt he'll tell us. :)

It doesn't make guessing any less interesting for me.

And it makes Axe 3 unavoidable, and maybe more interesting as well. ;)

That TI chip seems to have been available for 5 years or so, is a fraction of TigerSHARC's cost, yet it hasn't set the world on fire for some reason. Wonder why.
 
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