Variable
Inspired
Not to be confused with the "amp sim vs. real thing" thread that's been going around! This is 100% about recreating a live amp + cab sound rather than recorded sounds (where the Axe3 really shines, IMHO).
I have been doing some side by sides between my Axe 3 setup and my Bogner Ecstasy Classic to see how close I can get them. I would love for the Axe 3 to do the magic that the Classic can, but so far I haven't quite gotten there.
Before I dive in, here's the setup:
Axe3 Rig:
Axe 3 (Euro Blue and Red models) -> Fryette Power Station 2 -> Friedman BE 4x12 (2 GB and 2 V30)
Bogner Ecstasy Classic Rig:
Ecstasy -> Friedman BE 4x12
Very simple, all things considered.
Tonally, I can get them pretty close, especially the Blue channels. The harmonic swirl, the frequencies, and the gain dynamics seem pretty spot on, with the exception of the high end being a little more hairy on the Axe models, which I believe is more the fact that they're based on the 20th Anniversary XTC rather than the Classic, which has a smoother and more open sound.
Where I'm finding the Axe + tube power amp falls down is in the way it does or does not interact with the cabinet. Now, of course, much of this is coming from the Fryette PS2, which is considered to be one of the better power amps for the Axe if you want that tube power amp interaction with a cabinet.
What is missing for me is that while the PS2 does interact with my Friedman cab, it interacts in a very different way than the actual Bogner Ecstasy does. Somehow the Ecstasy seems to find that perfect cabinet response, even when changing the Excursion (Depth) switches. Messing with the Depth control and Speaker page of the Amp Block on the Axe, I can't really seem to get that magic I get with the Ecstasy, where the amp and cab seem to become one instrument. Either the Axe + PS2 is too thin, or the depth frequency is wrong, but the punch I get with the real amp has been somewhat elusive. The closest I can get the two feel-wise is when the Ecstasy is set to the Tight setting on Excursion, and even then the Axe misses some of the natural punch and depth. This is at the same SPL for both options.
I'll admit that this could be user error, though I have read other threads on the PS2 being used in its reactive load capacity and users reporting the same issue with the depth and presence being different than the amp it's loading. The metaphor I'd offer to sum up is 3d vs. 2.5d.
This gets me wondering: is it possible, technologically speaking, to create a power amp and/or interface with the Axe 3 that would correctly translate the power amp interaction from the modeled amp with the real cabinet load? Perhaps a setting in the Axe 3 based on the impedance curve of popular speakers like the V30 and GB in the Amp Block's speaker page (ie, if you know your real cab has V30s, select the V30 setting in the Speaker page), and a power amp that allows you to fine tune the way it interacts with the cabinet (beyond the way the Presence and Depth controls are implemented on the PS2).
Maybe this is pie in the sky dreaming, but that's what seems to be missing for me with the current state of our technology, as amazing as it is. Thoughts?
EDIT: Well, color me silly, I had the ground lift switch on Output 2 on, and somehow that was doing some weird stuff with the the feed into the PS2. It's a lot closer now with the ground lift fixed, though I'm still curious how much closer we could get, feel-wise.
I have been doing some side by sides between my Axe 3 setup and my Bogner Ecstasy Classic to see how close I can get them. I would love for the Axe 3 to do the magic that the Classic can, but so far I haven't quite gotten there.
Before I dive in, here's the setup:
Axe3 Rig:
Axe 3 (Euro Blue and Red models) -> Fryette Power Station 2 -> Friedman BE 4x12 (2 GB and 2 V30)
Bogner Ecstasy Classic Rig:
Ecstasy -> Friedman BE 4x12
Very simple, all things considered.
Tonally, I can get them pretty close, especially the Blue channels. The harmonic swirl, the frequencies, and the gain dynamics seem pretty spot on, with the exception of the high end being a little more hairy on the Axe models, which I believe is more the fact that they're based on the 20th Anniversary XTC rather than the Classic, which has a smoother and more open sound.
Where I'm finding the Axe + tube power amp falls down is in the way it does or does not interact with the cabinet. Now, of course, much of this is coming from the Fryette PS2, which is considered to be one of the better power amps for the Axe if you want that tube power amp interaction with a cabinet.
What is missing for me is that while the PS2 does interact with my Friedman cab, it interacts in a very different way than the actual Bogner Ecstasy does. Somehow the Ecstasy seems to find that perfect cabinet response, even when changing the Excursion (Depth) switches. Messing with the Depth control and Speaker page of the Amp Block on the Axe, I can't really seem to get that magic I get with the Ecstasy, where the amp and cab seem to become one instrument. Either the Axe + PS2 is too thin, or the depth frequency is wrong, but the punch I get with the real amp has been somewhat elusive. The closest I can get the two feel-wise is when the Ecstasy is set to the Tight setting on Excursion, and even then the Axe misses some of the natural punch and depth. This is at the same SPL for both options.
I'll admit that this could be user error, though I have read other threads on the PS2 being used in its reactive load capacity and users reporting the same issue with the depth and presence being different than the amp it's loading. The metaphor I'd offer to sum up is 3d vs. 2.5d.
This gets me wondering: is it possible, technologically speaking, to create a power amp and/or interface with the Axe 3 that would correctly translate the power amp interaction from the modeled amp with the real cabinet load? Perhaps a setting in the Axe 3 based on the impedance curve of popular speakers like the V30 and GB in the Amp Block's speaker page (ie, if you know your real cab has V30s, select the V30 setting in the Speaker page), and a power amp that allows you to fine tune the way it interacts with the cabinet (beyond the way the Presence and Depth controls are implemented on the PS2).
Maybe this is pie in the sky dreaming, but that's what seems to be missing for me with the current state of our technology, as amazing as it is. Thoughts?
EDIT: Well, color me silly, I had the ground lift switch on Output 2 on, and somehow that was doing some weird stuff with the the feed into the PS2. It's a lot closer now with the ground lift fixed, though I'm still curious how much closer we could get, feel-wise.
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