AX8 with real cabinets

SRVYJM

Member
Just making sure I'm understanding this correctly- I have a fairy decent collection of really good cabinets at home. Sometimes it's tough to beat a real cabinet at a gig- so if I decide to set up patches to use real cabinets- do I just delete the cabinet block on a patch or do I disable cabinet emulation globally? Also- then I need something to drive the cabinets- so I need to get something like a Matrix GT800FX? Do any of you that go this route have any insight or advise on if I should use a Matrix or a tube amp like the Atomic 50/50 or event some of the less expensive smaller ones- can't remember the names of those off the top of my head...
 
You need a separate hardware power amp to drive a traditional cabinet. No need to delete Cab blocks in your presets, just use the second output: OUT 2 / Eff.Send. To send a signal to that output, add the FXL block to your preset and make sure it gets a signal that doesn't go through the Cab block. Usually this is accomplished by splitting the signal before the Cab into two rows, and adding FXL to the second row.
 
View attachment 41769 Here's one of my presets designed for this purpose; as yek mentioned, leave the cab block at the end of the main chain (out 1, to PA) and use the FXL block to go to output 2 and on to the power amp/cab

Yep that's exactly what I've done recently , but if you don't need anything going to the pa at all , you can either disable the cab modeling , or delete the block. . Disabling is the easiest way, as long as you don't need it to go to a pa, etc.. Also, you can surely buy the new power amp like u mentioned OP, but if you want to go less expensive, and maybe even better sounding (that's up to you) , you can go into an fx return in any of your tube amps, or just buy an old tube power amp. . . I have a variety of all of the above and it sounds great any which way

Good luck
Eric
 
Yep that's exactly what I've done recently , but if you don't need anything going to the pa at all , you can either disable the cab modeling , or delete the block. . Disabling is the easiest way, as long as you don't need it to go to a pa, etc.. Also, you can surely buy the new power amp like u mentioned OP, but if you want to go less expensive, and maybe even better sounding (that's up to you) , you can go into an fx return in any of your tube amps, or just buy an old tube power amp. . . I have a variety of all of the above and it sounds great any which way

Good luck
Eric

If I go into the effects return of any of my tube amps- (yes, have a LOT of them) wouldn't I just be using the AX8 as a pedal platform and need to disable both the cab blocks and the AMP blocks too, since it's post preamp circuit? Reading through the manual it mentions I have a choice either way (yes, I actually RTFM- often actually) but it seems to me that using a tube head would defeat the whole purpose of the AX8- and turn it into essentially an FX8.
 
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If I go into the effects return of any of my tube amps- (yes, have a LOT of them) wouldn't I just be using the AX8 as a pedal platform and need to disable both the cab blocks and the AMP blocks too, since it's post preamp circuit? Reading through the manual it mentions I have a choice either way (yes, I actually RTFM- often actually) but it seems to me that using a tube head would defeat the whole purpose of the AX8- and turn it into essentially an FX8.

Nope, when you go into an effects loop return, you're post-preamp.. So you're using the Ax8's preamps. . You can either disable power-amp modeling, or not, depending on the sound, as with some amps it's different than others. If you feel it defeats the purpose of using the Ax8, that's fine, but not to me at all. .Remember your Ax8 is preamps and power amps and fx all in 1. The only thing you sacrifice going into an fx return on an amp head/combo is you'll need to be mono at that point, as there'll be no stereo option. .. When I got my ax8 I breezed through the manual , but I learned a long time ago , that I make my own decisions with my sounds/tones/options and just because the masses on the internet do it 1 way doesn't mean they experimented with all the different options! I love to experiment and found no downfall at all using tube power amps or even fx returns of a tube amp with my ax8, other than having to carry heavy stuff still to gigs. ;) Also everyone has different uses for their ax8, and I rarely mic our onstage instruments and we play with a loud stage volume. My situation is way different than someone who uses IR's , goes direct with everything thru a mixer, or someone who plays a low stage volume and uses Frfr's, and everyone goes direct. The Ax8 can be tweaked to sound great in any possible scenario you can think of. Enjoy and experiment, and you'll pick the best one for u. I like my Engl tube power amps best with mine because I already had them, they sound killer, and I'm not worried at this point about the extra weight. :)

Eric
 
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View attachment 41769 Here's one of my presets designed for this purpose; as yek mentioned, leave the cab block at the end of the main chain (out 1, to PA) and use the FXL block to go to output 2 and on to the power amp/cab

I do this so that I can use the AX8 in the bedroom with studio monitors or elsewhere with the Power Station and Guitar Cab. I don't use a ton of different sounds per preset so Ill usually make some scenes with V30s and some with Greenbacks to represent my cabs.
 
Just making sure I'm understanding this correctly- I have a fairy decent collection of really good cabinets at home. Sometimes it's tough to beat a real cabinet at a gig- so if I decide to set up patches to use real cabinets- do I just delete the cabinet block on a patch or do I disable cabinet emulation globally? Also- then I need something to drive the cabinets- so I need to get something like a Matrix GT800FX? Do any of you that go this route have any insight or advise on if I should use a Matrix or a tube amp like the Atomic 50/50 or event some of the less expensive smaller ones- can't remember the names of those off the top of my head...

What are you sending to the FOH? A mic on your cab or the AX8 output? If, you have a cab onstage as a monitor, you run the risk of sending a completely different mix to the FOH. I have found that some patches sound great with a real cab, but others need to be reworked. Also, if you are using different amp blocks, having a real cab is going to make them all sound a lot similar than you would get by going FRFR.
 
What are you sending to the FOH? A mic on your cab or the AX8 output? If, you have a cab onstage as a monitor, you run the risk of sending a completely different mix to the FOH. I have found that some patches sound great with a real cab, but others need to be reworked. Also, if you are using different amp blocks, having a real cab is going to make them all sound a lot similar than you would get by going FRFR.
Nothing to front of house at this point- small clubs with stage volume only mixed for our sound...
 
. The only thing you sacrifice going into an fx return on an amp head/combo is you'll need to be mono at that point, as there'll be no stereo option. ..
That's not really true. You lose the accurate power amp modeling that is a strong point of the AX-8 and Axe Fx. You are either adding extra coloration from the tube power amp (with power amp modeling ON) or you are replacing the modeled amp's expected coloration with that of the tube power amp you are plugging in to (with power amp modeling OFF).

I'm not saying it will sound bad, just not accurate...

Use it how you like - there is a lot of flexibility :)
 
That's not really true. You lose the accurate power amp modeling that is a strong point of the AX-8 and Axe Fx. You are either adding extra coloration from the tube power amp (with power amp modeling ON) or you are replacing the modeled amp's expected coloration with that of the tube power amp you are plugging in to (with power amp modeling OFF).

I'm not saying it will sound bad, just not accurate...

Use it how you like - there is a lot of flexibility :)

There's no reason for "Accurate" in my musical vocabulary as a guitarist! You can either use the power amp 'modeling' in the AX8, a real tube power amp with all kinds of different tubes, or a combination of both. Why would 'accurate' even apply? Seriously, I come up with my own tones and make it work in any scenario. I have a virtual guitar store or museum worth of great gear, but I always tend to dial in very similar sounds :) Anyway, I 100% agree with your last line above! Eric
 
What are you sending to the FOH? A mic on your cab or the AX8 output? If, you have a cab onstage as a monitor, you run the risk of sending a completely different mix to the FOH. I have found that some patches sound great with a real cab, but others need to be reworked. Also, if you are using different amp blocks, having a real cab is going to make them all sound a lot similar than you would get by going FRFR.

I agree with you in a lot of this post and have run into the same thing. . BUT I'd like to add, why would FRFR on stage in your opinion result in less chance of sending a completely different mix to FOH? Doesn't that assume the band's PA would be FRFR too? Almost every PA system I know of other than all the new powered stuff, is nothing like FRFR. Rich sounding EAW's, Turbosounds, Community's, Meyer Sound, Yorkville, JBL, etc are set up as PA speakers at all kinds of venues. They don't use powered QSC's, Atomics, Friedman's, etc. . Every PA is dialed in differently. I use TOA's or EAW's with my band and they're very different. . Anyway, I've always been really curious about this as unless the PA is similar to the FRFR monitoring situation on stage, I don't see any benefit either way. (I could be totally missing something though, as I had a sound company using older gear, and really don't know much about this new stuff!) Eric
 
I agree with you in a lot of this post and have run into the same thing. . BUT I'd like to add, why would FRFR on stage in your opinion result in less chance of sending a completely different mix to FOH? Doesn't that assume the band's PA would be FRFR too? Almost every PA system I know of other than all the new powered stuff, is nothing like FRFR. Rich sounding EAW's, Turbosounds, Community's, Meyer Sound, Yorkville, JBL, etc are set up as PA speakers at all kinds of venues. They don't use powered QSC's, Atomics, Friedman's, etc. . Every PA is dialed in differently. I use TOA's or EAW's with my band and they're very different. . Anyway, I've always been really curious about this as unless the PA is similar to the FRFR monitoring situation on stage, I don't see any benefit either way. (I could be totally missing something though, as I had a sound company using older gear, and really don't know much about this new stuff!) Eric

Yea, using the house PA can be a crap shoot. I normally bring my Xitone when playing a venue for the first time. Clubs that have a decent PA and monitors, I would just go direct with nothing on stage. I also have an IEM setup that comes in handy
 
I like to have a duplicate of my patches with a loop. That way always have the both options ready for use.
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I think this is the way I'm heading- the patches I dial in I'll add a loop so one goes to FOH if and when a decent PA is available- one goes to real cabinet- without cabs enabled then I don't have to do anything else. Easy peasy, I think...
 
View attachment 41769 Here's one of my presets designed for this purpose; as yek mentioned, leave the cab block at the end of the main chain (out 1, to PA) and use the FXL block to go to output 2 and on to the power amp/cab
Is this also the best sound for Running Ax8 into a MatrixGT1000 then Into a Marshall 4x12. ? Just using the Cab no PA connected.
 
Until recently, I was running my Ax Fx II XL thru a Matrix GT1000FX with the Matrix Elements 2x12 cab and it soundes killer. For that cab all you need to do is disable the cab modeling. Now I use the Mission Gemini II FRFR 2x12 cabinet and it sounds ridiculous. Once you hear the full FRFR on stage you may get hooked. :)
 
To me one of the biggest advantages of using a FRFR on stage is I don't have to drag a tube amp to gigs (or extra tubes, fuses, etc). The FRFR speaker I have is also lighter than any of my tube amps - so less stuff to haul. And while the PA mains might not sound exactly like my FRFR speaker, usually they are close enough that any issues can be fixed with a little EQ via the PA.

But as long as what you are doing gets the results you want, then no need to change.
 
We can't just plug any preamp into any poweramp and expect them to balance each other. Best using a neutral PA with the AX8 and the full amp sim. Matrix is good enough for metallica, I prefer the seymour powerstage 700. When you use real cabs just make sure to set the speaker page well.
 
We can't just plug any preamp into any poweramp and expect them to balance each other. Best using a neutral PA with the AX8 and the full amp sim. Matrix is good enough for metallica, I prefer the seymour powerstage 700. When you use real cabs just make sure to set the speaker page well.

Speedloader could you explain to me what you mean by "When you use real cabs just make sure to set the speaker page well."??

I use the AX8 with a seymour duncan powerstage 170. An intend to have the both option live (out 1 to the FOH and out 2 to the powerstage 170 that's connected to my 4x12 cabinet),

Thanks in advance.
 
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