AX8 users moving to FM3

I will add my support. I still don’t understand fractal’s thinking when they cut down the switches. Maybe they thought is a clever solution, but it absolutely isn’t for anyone professional playing live. I suspect that the ax8 cut into the sales of the big brother units so much that they had to make their ‘budget’ unit less user friendly. With the amount of cabling and flight casing involved in going out with a fm3 and an fc6 or 12, you may as well go out with an axe fx iii and an fc. What is crazy is I would pay Axe fx iii prices for an fm3 in ax8 physical format. I suppose they aimed the fm3 for the really small fly rigs only. The great thing about the ax8 is it sounded pretty much as good as the bigger unit but had more live functionality (and less studio use). It really was an axe fx ‘live’. I am going to have to get an fc12 with it, and I was thinking about keeping the fm back with the Backline, but realised I can’t do this as I need to see setlists during the gigs I do. At least two of my artists change song orders regularly during the gigs. I hope I am proved wrong but this seems like a rare backward step from a great company. I won’t be selling my ax8 either. An elegant solution just got much more clunky. It’s made me wish that the fm3 didn’t sound better...but I am confident they won’t have got that wrong!
 
This wish for expanded stand-in switch functionality has it's own thread now:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-external-switch-functions-per-layout.160319/

@fsharpminor FAS discontinued the AX8 for a variety of reasons. We can only speculate as to all the reasons, but personally I don't think sales cutting into the flagship was a factor. What we do know is that the lead programmer for the AX8 left FAS and it was becoming increasingly difficult to port code to the AX8. We also know that the amp modeling had outgrown the CPU limitations of the AX8 and they were not able to get the Ares amp modeling to run on the AX8.

I also wish they had designed the FM3 with more switches... But there were a lot of posts on the forum from people wishing for a smaller solution than the AX8. FAS has provided that with the FM3 and also allows for more switches with the modular approach by adding an FC controller. Some would say that is an elegant solution. Unfortunately you end up with a larger, heavier, and more expensive solution than the AX8 was. Regardless, the FM3 is a great sounding unit and a nice product that will meet the needs of a lot of users.

Regarding the switching, once you add on an FC6 (or 12) controller you have a switching solution that blows the AX8 away. I always found the AX8 UI rather poorly designed and clunky. This is definitely a more elegant solution from a functionality standpoint, if not from a size/bulk standpoint.
 
@ethomas1013 I am sure you are right dude. Its just that the ax8, with its admittedly poorly designed interface apart from the dedicated knobs, was a perfect solution for me. I just used ax8 edit to set everything up the way I wanted it. For me the fractal audio stuff was all about live use as well. In the studio I have amps and uad oxes for recorded sound. It was just so good to have something that sounded so good, had everything I needed and was simple and small(ish). I even went and tried out the kemper floor unit and it wasnt even close to the fractal. I was so relieved to leave patch cables and power supplies behind!! Oh well you cant please everybody all the time and I am sure that I will get over it. :)
 
you can use the FM3 with 2 additional "simple" external switches and an expression pedal (or 4 switches if you don't use an expression).

those external switches can be set to do anything the built-in switches can do. but you can also use them simply to change Layouts or Views which change what the on-board FM3 switches do. this is just like changing to Preset Mode, Looper Mode, etc on the AX8.

when i have a simple gig without looping, i use just the 3 on-board switches in 1 Layout and View. that's 6 functions with the 3 switches with tap and hold functions. further, one function can be a "Scene Toggle" giving me 2 Scenes per switch. put another one on the Hold function of the same switch and i now have 4 Scenes with 1 switch (with a bit of "priority" in how you change to all 4 scenes). then i put 2 different effect on/off on switch 2, and Tap and Tuner on the 3rd.

when i need to loop, i plug in 2 external switches. the left external does Tap and Tune, which frees up that 3rd switch described above. the right external switch changes between 2 Views (or Layouts) so it becomes a Toggle. View 1 is what i described above. View 2 is Looper Rec Play and Once, with Scene 1/2 Toggle as a Hold on the Once switch.

that right there gets me through any gig with 4 Scenes. much better workflow i think vs the AX8, since i can now change Scenes on the Looper View, which you couldn't do on the AX8.

i've also experimented with adding Scene Toggles on the External instead, giving me up to all 8 Scenes there if needed (4 per switch) leaving the on-board for other things like more effect on/off or channel selections.

just those 5 switches give me so much control over things without diving through modes/Layouts/Views.

i'll have a video soon with Definitions, Default Layouts, Custom Layouts and more soon. it's all really simple once you understand what each thing does. then you just choose what you need and put it there.

3 or 5 switches compared to 11 of the AX8 are way more powerful and sometimes less confusing. it all depends on how you set it up.

on really involved gigs, i'll bring the FC6 for even more switches, but that's been rare.
Maybe someone else has responded to this great and detailed response from you, but I wanted to chime in. I had an AX8. It was my first unit and introduction to fractal and I was coming from a Helix. AX8 was great, but when I bought the III, everything changed for the better. You can't listen to videos comparing the AX8 to the III or even the FM3 and make a decision based on what you hear. Feel is subjective but if you are sensitive to that stuff like a lot of us are, then its a win, and now you are getting that, plus a lot more programming options.

That said, when the FM3 was announced it made total sense in the direction they wanted to go. They gave us options without driving the price through the roof. As stated many times, you can add the FC6 and now it's around the same price the AX8 was when it first released. Yes, it has similar power to the AX8, but now has the sound and features of the 3. I now have the FC switching system, and the option to add more switches if I needed to. I have more switching options (hold, toggle, etc) and if I have a small, simple gig, I can just grab the unit on its own and put it in a backpack and go without having to take any more gear. You can't make everyone happy but from a logical standpoint, it make way more sense than making a floor unit similar to the axe fx 3 (Yes, I get why they would want that in the floor...more power!!! yes). Making an AX8 replacement, the FM3 is very well thought out and fits well into the ecosystem, but then again, just like The Big Lebowski says..."Well, that's just like your, ugh, opinion, man". :)
 
I'll cross this bridge when I come to it. The AX8 is pretty ideal if you use the looper much. Its also has handled any chorus/verse/etc. scenario I've needed: or the boost/delay/FX approach. I don't use a pedal board: AX8, the cables, and an expression pedal all fit in a compact case. A Quilter Power Block into either a 1x12 if its guitar, or a 2x10 for bass sound great, are light, portable and fit my needs. If the venue has a decent PA and I won't need an amp/cab: a Steinberger and AX8 are a comfortable carry even on a rush hour bus. I do all setup in AX8 edit: but having the amp like knobs is so helpful for on the fly tweaks: As much as I'd like to do everything with the guitar V & T: there are times when you HAVE to turn down or up the presence or bass on the fly, and it looks as if the FM3 is as easy to get after that with.

I'm mostly interested in the incremental sonic improvements ARES offers in the FM3, so I'll make whatever adjustments are needed to work it. Ideally, I hope to get by with the 3 button layout, and it seems likely. If I can get comfortable doing occasional looping without having to add the FC6, that would be great, but its not all that important: I could add a couple Boss FS-5Us if that's easier.

The Axe FXIII is/would be more than I need, so the FM3 is ideal: As much quality as can be put in a portable device. Seems as if the FM3 was designed for ME: except I didn't even have to ask.
 
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I came from the AX8 to the FM3 thinking that I’d need an extra footswitch/controller but I’ve found that I can still get 8 sounds from the FM3’s 3 without foot dancing thanks to it’s great programming flexibility and using the infinite function for holds.
 
...It’s made me wish that the fm3 didn’t sound better...but I am confident they won’t have got that wrong!
This is the whole problem :)

Honestly, my plan from the start was to evaluate the FM3's sound\feel first and foremost. I told myself it needed to pretty much blow me away, otherwise I'd just re-sell the FM3 and keep using AX8, sparing myself the headache of trying to work with so few switches or having to add an FC6 and buy a new bigger pedalboard just to end up with a bigger heavier board to haul around.

So this was a very rare strange experience, actually hoping my new Fractal didn't sound so great. But yes, I'm pretty much blown away. FM3 stays. Damn you Fractal! :)

I'll make it work one way or another. In the past I've done much bigger crazier rigs and hauled around way more heavy stuff in the pursuit of tone. I can deal with this.

I still agree with many who felt AX8 was near perfect size and switch count. I still believe they are very likely to make such a product again. I just don't want to wait! Very clearly, there's a market for both the small, 3-switch units AND bigger, better floorboards with more switches.
 
The FM3, as expected , performs and sounds better than both AX8 and FX8 as an FX-only pedalboard for amps in addition to its all in one chores. (tif you don’t stress about no relay switches..)
 
This is the whole problem :)

Honestly, my plan from the start was to evaluate the FM3's sound\feel first and foremost. I told myself it needed to pretty much blow me away, otherwise I'd just re-sell the FM3 and keep using AX8, sparing myself the headache of trying to work with so few switches or having to add an FC6 and buy a new bigger pedalboard just to end up with a bigger heavier board to haul around.

So this was a very rare strange experience, actually hoping my new Fractal didn't sound so great. But yes, I'm pretty much blown away. FM3 stays. Damn you Fractal! :)

I'll make it work one way or another. In the past I've done much bigger crazier rigs and hauled around way more heavy stuff in the pursuit of tone. I can deal with this.

I still agree with many who felt AX8 was near perfect size and switch count. I still believe they are very likely to make such a product again. I just don't want to wait! Very clearly, there's a market for both the small, 3-switch units AND bigger, better floorboards with more switches.
Throw a 2 button switch in pedal 1 and an expression pedal in pedal 2. Or you can even connect two 2 pedal switches. It makes a big difference.
 
Most of the rigs I’ve seen is AX8 with added expression pedal.
I just wish fractal made one more product. It’s perfect completion of the line to the two existing ones.
you have fm3 for quick grab it and go kinda people who need amazing sounding unit in a small package. You got the Axe Fx III, top of the food chain, studio beast.
In perfect world there would be a third one. With price of the III. I would pay even more. That has the CPU power of it. Or close to it. It’s a floor unit with ~5 scene/preset switches customizable. ~2 up and down-scroll switches, and an expression pedal.
That would cover the third part of people that want to have all in one floor unit. By the time you pay for the pedal board, all the patch cables, power supply, expression pedal to add for the example to fm3, you can justify spending all that extra cash and even more for one unit. And you’re just adding unnecessary weight.
I would gladly pay high dollar to see it.
 
I used an AX-8 as my main rig for quite a while. I was primarily a live player with a progressive rock/power metal band. I loved it. The AX-8 required some clever thinking in order to get it to do everything I wanted it to do live but I loved the portability and the convenience.

I just got my FM3 Monday and I decided that I am not going to use anything else with it except a Mission Expression Pedal. Once you get use to how the scene switching works with 3 pedals, it’s pretty easy to get what you need (my opinion obviously). I never ran more than 4 scenes for any song live anyway so this is totally doable for me. I really enjoy have a simple compact powerful live rig and the AX-8 did that no problem. The FM3 will do that even easier for me given the added improvements of the Ares Firmware.
 
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I'm pretty sure it will come sooner or later guys, Cliff has hinted several times at future products using Ares and I don't see what else could be other than a bigger and more powerful floorboard.
 
i'm not a fan of built-in expression pedals. they usually cannot be angled/pivoted from straight up/down. also if they break, you have a major part of the gear that is non-functional and looks silly. most people grab the unit by the pedal, and it's not meant to support that kind of weight, so that's why it breaks.

also different gigs require slightly different setups. having a cable allows me to put it right next to the fm3, or a foot or so away on the other side of a mic stand or something like that if the ground is uneven. the added weight of an expression for those who don't use it might be unwanted as well. and people have different opinions on the type of pedal they want too.

i think that's why we haven't seen a built-in pedal, but who knows.
 
I'm pretty sure it will come sooner or later guys, Cliff has hinted several times at future products using Ares and I don't see what else could be other than a bigger and more powerful floorboard.
I don't see that at all, reason being is you can expand the FM3 with an FC6 or FC12 so there is really no reason to produce a larger floorboard. If anything it's consistency from FAS's onset replacing one unit with another and not adding to an existing line of product.
 
i'm not a fan of built-in expression pedals. they usually cannot be angled/pivoted from straight up/down. also if they break, you have a major part of the gear that is non-functional and looks silly. most people grab the unit by the pedal, and it's not meant to support that kind of weight, so that's why it breaks.

also different gigs require slightly different setups. having a cable allows me to put it right next to the fm3, or a foot or so away on the other side of a mic stand or something like that if the ground is uneven. the added weight of an expression for those who don't use it might be unwanted as well. and people have different opinions on the type of pedal they want too.

i think that's why we haven't seen a built-in pedal, but who knows.
I agree. But that’s exactly my point. You have FM3 for people with requirements similar to yours. And now just us with slightly different ones need one 😁🤘🏻
 
In perfect world there would be a third one. With price of the III. I would pay even more. That has the CPU power of it. Or close to it. It’s a floor unit with ~5 scene/preset switches customizable. ~2 up and down-scroll switches, and an expression pedal.

I'm with you except for the expression pedal. I hate when products force me to use their pedal. Everyone has their preference for pedals.

I would gladly pay high dollar to see it.

Me too.

I don't see that at all, reason being is you can expand the FM3 with an FC6 or FC12 so there is really no reason to produce a larger floorboard. If anything it's consistency from FAS's onset replacing one unit with another and not adding to an existing line of product.

Processing power. The AxeIII can do literally twice what the FM3 can do in a single preset.

And I have seen posts from Cliff, more than once, where he has hinted there will be other Ares products. What that might mean is anyone's guess. It could be that all the problems launching the FM3 have slowed their plans. Time will tell.
 
I don't see that at all, reason being is you can expand the FM3 with an FC6 or FC12 so there is really no reason to produce a larger floorboard.
It could well be but, according to you, what else could be a future product running Ares?
Serious question, let's speculate.

(Ares I think is mainly referred to the amp modeling so I don't think that could include an fx8 successor, but this is just an assumption)

If anything it's consistency from FAS's onset replacing one unit with another and not adding to an existing line of product
Well, to me the onset seems to be adding new products.
Gen 1 was just axe standard/ultra, in gen 2 they added the ax8 and fx8.

And expanding the product line is what a growing company usually does to attract more and more customers.
 
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Yeah, look at how many times Line6 has repacked the same technology - each appealing to a different market segment.

FAS is not in a position to mimic the Line6 product line in the number of offerings (they don't have a huge corporation like Yamaha backing them), and I'm not saying that they should, but there is definitely room in the FAS line for another product. They just have to be smart about what they develop and bring to the market.
 
When I go to the FM3, I'm going to need two expression pedals and two external switches. Can I do that with the FM3, or do I need to get an FC6 (or 12, but I don't need that many more switches). Two more switches would do it for me, but I have to have to EP's as well.
 
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