AX8 to FM9 transition

Is it smart to gig with both an ax8 and an fm9? I mean after gigging for a while you'll get use to the scene switches on autopilot and if they're in a different layout or order on the fm9 that could cause you to forget at crucial times during your performance and muck up.

Furthermore, why convert from ax8 to fm9? Fm9 has new technology. I bought custom u2 presets for the ax8 for about 60 songs. I would never convert them for the fm9. I'd either buy another ax8 as backup and restore them on that unit, or buy brand new custom presets for the same 60 songs again for the fm9. The reason is converting can cause all kinds of small problems you may never figure out on your own and you're not taking advantage of the fm9's new cygnus technology sound quality which is the whole purpose you bought the fm9 in the first place!

There are AX8 presets that simply don't exist on the FM9. I'm not going to keep my AX8 once I got the FM9 to where I need it to be and I'm certainly not going to gig with both of them at the same time.
 
Hi all,

Well, I finally gigged the unit for the first time, and it was a massive success.

  • All the sounds were amazing, a huge improvement on the AX8 especially in the band mix - much more organic and live.
  • I've minimized my foot movements which is crucial, and it all worked without too much extra thought.
  • The permanent DRV, CHORUS and DLY switches proved essential on the night so that was a good choice.
  • The ALL-IN patch sped things up between songs. This improved my live workflow as I no longer needed to look at the iPAD for song/patch selection - It became obvious what level of 'drive' the song required based on the genre, so my CLEAN, DRIVEN, ROCK, CRUNCH, HEAVY labels work well.
  • Locating song specific patches wasn't difficult. Certainly, no more so than the AX8.
  • The Tuner is so much better visually.

Issues:

Occasionally, the foot switches would go into "master layout" mode mid song - I knew it couldn't happen on its own so analysing it later showed that I'd clicked the BOOST button and then engaged the DLY but a little too quickly and those two presses took me into master mode.

Once I'd figured that out, no issues anymore but as I seemed to need that combination a few times, I'll see what other option I can use to make that a non-issue.

Oddly, I had my WAH right next to the unit and found when i hit the lower right FM9 button, I'd slightly tap the WAH. This sometimes engaged it but once I'd figured that out, i just moved it further away and problem solved.

Changes:

I'm going to make a couple of drive choice changes on the CLEAN patch so I can get a better driven sound and I'll default the Aurora DLY to be turned on for the solo sounds as i seemed to use that option more, but other than that, I can just enjoy the FM9 and make small incremental changes from now on.

Again, thanks to all contributors that made this a success for me. Your time is very much appreciated.

Andy.
 
PROGRESS UPDATE:

So, after all the excellent comments and advice I have settled on this setup.

View attachment 110671

It is actually pretty basic but consolidates three primary AX8 pre-sets into one. Here's what it's doing for me:

1. This is my ALL IN PRESET - general purpose, covers all types of music. If I had to live here, I could do a whole gig with great results.
2. S1 -S5 are now single stomp switches - no holds etc. - I can stomp on one and know without thinking where I'm going.
3. It uses 2 amp blocks and a single cab block - Idea is that usually I only need clean, "an appropriate gain patch" and Solo on any given song.
4. I'm still playing with the amp switching/un-muting options to see if I can get gaps down between commonly used scenes etc. but it's not something that is bad, so I won't lose sleep about it. Mostly - I keep the clean amp the same for S2-S5 then use mute/unmute amp block and a channel switch on the CAB block.
5. The BOOST CS1 adds the amp boost and any other option that I feel is needed (e.g. unmute a delay bock, Vol block engage for boost) for that scene. This works really well and doesn't require any amp block changes so is really smooth.
6. I took the advice around 'redundant buttons' and now don't have a dedicates one for pre-sets and scenes. I can access that with the Master layout function.
7. This then allows me to have a dedicated button for Chorus and Drive - two of the one's used most on the AX8.
8. Finally, I added a Pitch 1 as the Chorus hold option and Drive 2 as the Drive 1 hold option. This gives me access to other flavours if needed.
9. The DLY/CS2 option basically gives me a Delay option (usually the Aurora) and other CS2 controlled options.
10. Pre-set is currently running at 80.5% and so far doesn't have any 'overload' issues. I definitely don't want dropouts so i may look to optimise that a little further.

Summary

I still have a number of song specific patches, but this overall seems to be working so far and sounds great.

I did have one unexpected issue where the screens would go blank meaning, I couldn't select anything - Mid song this is a showstopper.

I discovered this was to do with switching layouts and to solve this, I had to go through each pre-set and ensure I didn't have any LAYOUT LINKS turned on especially for per pre-set overrides. Once I'd done that, everything seems to be working consistently.

I'm going to be using this live for the first time in a couple of weeks so I will report back on how that went and hopefully bring this journey saga to an end.

Again, thanks for all contributions and suggestions - everything has helped get to a solution that works for me.

Andy.
Looks like you've got a handle on it and have started thinking in FM9 mode, vs. thinking still in AX8 mode like you were with your initial posts about the sounds you were getting.... :)


Issues:

Occasionally, the foot switches would go into "master layout" mode mid song - I knew it couldn't happen on its own so analysing it later showed that I'd clicked the BOOST button and then engaged the DLY but a little too quickly and those two presses took me into master mode.

Once I'd figured that out, no issues anymore but as I seemed to need that combination a few times, I'll see what other option I can use to make that a non-issue.

Oddly, I had my WAH right next to the unit and found when i hit the lower right FM9 button, I'd slightly tap the WAH. This sometimes engaged it but once I'd figured that out, i just moved it further away and problem solved.

There is a setting in the globals to turn off the switch combo that takes you to the Master Layout. Might be all you need to stop worrying about accidentally triggering that and keep the current setup, which seems to be working nicely for you....
 
This is a super helpful and detailed thread, thanks @hitmusic for sharing your experiences and everyone for great input! The jukebox band is an amazing concept and it would be so kickass to see that in action.

Going from a real pedalboard and amp/cab setup to the AX8, then Helix and now FM9, I was accustomed to the tap dance but was happy to give it up by switching to a modeler. Reading your post you covered pretty much all of the issues I had!

Like you I really enjoyed the AX8 and I know it's going to take time to get where I want to be. The sounds I had going were just godly to me, and the effects vs scenes buttons just worked.

After about 7 months of gigging with my Helix and constantly tweaking my own "all in" preset, I got it perfect in terms of tone and workflow. But I bought the FM9 because I'm hoping it will be an improvement. I already found the footswitching awkward after a rehearsal each with 2 bands, and have committed to spending some time playing with layouts to try and match the workflow I had going before. I think I'm almost there.

So far I've customized the Scenes layout so it's all on layout 2, instead of spread across layouts 2 and 3. I'm more comfortable with this after having lived in the Helix environment and knowing that scenes 1-5 cover my clean, cleanish, crunch, hot, and solo sounds, and then 6-8 are my clean/cleanish/crunchy delay sounds. Then I added some hold functions to get my common effects, just like you did, and turned on the 2nd press to toggle previous scene. I've tweaked the effects layout so the most common ones are on the first page.

Reading up on this forum gave me the idea for per-preset overrides too, and I spent a good few hours playing with control switches for amp functions (a la austinbuddy ) and a custom layout that I can use for one song within this same "do it all" patch.

Anyway, rambling over - tons to learn still, but just wanted to reiterate my thanks for sharing your experiences as it's all too real for me right now (minus the jukebox part). Cheers and good luck getting more comfortable our FM9s!
 
^ You're set up is basically what I've gone for too, and would be what I use for a function band scenario.
My metal band is just scenes so no issue there.
Last thing for me to tweak are:
1) the gates (getting a lot of feedback from one of my 7 strings in particular - think its pickup placement and where I'm muting more than the gate itself)
2) Getting the EQ right on my Rhythm sound so it cuts through in a band environment (probably need another rehearsal to do this)
3) Any enhancements to smooth out my lead tone
4) General gig volume scene leveling

Definitely found the FM9 learning curve tricky from being set and forget on my last modeler for like 5 years. But the cleaner and lower gain sounds are certainly a league above anything I've used before.
 
^ You're set up is basically what I've gone for too, and would be what I use for a function band scenario.
My metal band is just scenes so no issue there.
Last thing for me to tweak are:
1) the gates (getting a lot of feedback from one of my 7 strings in particular - think its pickup placement and where I'm muting more than the gate itself)
2) Getting the EQ right on my Rhythm sound so it cuts through in a band environment (probably need another rehearsal to do this)
3) Any enhancements to smooth out my lead tone
4) General gig volume scene leveling

Definitely found the FM9 learning curve tricky from being set and forget on my last modeler for like 5 years. But the cleaner and lower gain sounds are certainly a league above anything I've used before.
Funny you mention the 7-string feedback, for me it's a lot of string noise coming from one of them but I think it's the sensitivity of the pickups combined with my sloppy technique. 😄 When I spent time in the past really practicing with my Mayones I am more about muting with my hand and being careful to play cleanly.

I'm looking forward to cranking up loud at the next gig in December and tweaking things just right.

The FM9 (and Fractal in general) certainly has a learning curve but I love that it's basically like the Linux of modelers, where you can go really deep in the "command line" to tweak the whole OS (blocks in modeler speak), or stick to surface level changes that will still get the job done
 
^ Yeah I don't get the same feedback from my 6s weirdly. Not sure if its party pickup height related, lowering them in my 7's has helped slightly.
 
I'm really glad that documenting this process helps in someway. It's also interesting to see that people had the same 'transition' issues/concerns and came up with similar solutions.

I have now gigged with the FM9 multiple times, making a few tweaks along the way. As previously mentioned, I always run my own FOH (AH QU series and DB IG3T's with appropriate subs) and this means I can essentially tweak my guitar tone to the IG3T's.

One thing, whilst my tone is now consistent :) , the venue room acoustics always gets in the way so I do occasionally go from gig to gig saying to myself "well it sounded great in the last two rooms, now it sounds 'messy/masked'.

So.....after some study (thanks Dave Rat) the issue may be using two sound sources producing the exact same sound which can causing comb filtering with different room reflection points compounding the issue. My guitar sound usually has stereo FX but actually when you analyse it, most of the core sound from each speak is the same.

The solution is to ensure that a slightly different sound comes out of each speaker and the way I chose to do this was to use two cabinets, either slightly different IR's or one with a proximity effect on (or some other change to Air/Room).

This actually made a huge difference in the overall definition and consistency in different rooms whilst not changing the tone drastically (in fact it improved the overall combined tone).

I'm sure there's a whole bunch of physics that will both support and dismiss the above claim, but it works for my ears!

Anyway, hope that also helps.
 
Whoa. Great stuff in here! Just a quick note to say that while my rig, layouts and on-stage responsibilities are WAY simpler than yours, I went through some of the same issues. I'd gotten very comfortable with the FX8 and had created AX8 patches in the same way, so over those 7 years I'd gotten very entrenched in thinking about switching in that way. Long story short, I have an FM9 setup that is super easy for me and I can have better access to a lot more sounds and functionality with it than I did with the AX8. In the end I find, as you did, that starting over is the way to go but the stock amps and the factory presets (pairing amps with good cabs) definitely make it easier to get good sounds quickly.
 
@hitmusic I forgot to mention that your show sounds really cool. I have a friend that needs to read about that...He just left a band and is really disillusioned with the local cover band scene (Spent some time touring with the Molly Hatchet guys under the name Gator Country). Anyway, this may be something to get him excited about playing live again.
 
@hitmusic I forgot to mention that your show sounds really cool. I have a friend that needs to read about that...He just left a band and is really disillusioned with the local cover band scene (Spent some time touring with the Molly Hatchet guys under the name Gator Country). Anyway, this may be something to get him excited about playing live again.
In case you wonder 'how' we do this, we went as basic as we could so that all ages could use the system, without giving anything away or installing anything (most people dont want to install an app).

1. We created a Google form with all the songs (120+) on it with check boxes.
2. We do not require people to log in to google or anything for this to work (so no collecting data).
3. We created a QR code and printed & laminated A4 versions with instructions on what to do (Camera/AR reader point and click).
4. We also have a 'backup' option to just go to our Facebook page - The first post is the link to the jukebox.
5. People check the boxes, press submit and that's it.
6. The form is linked to a spreadsheet that captures all the data.
7. The data is linked to a 'setlist' tab which automatically filters to show the most requested songs.
8. We just refresh the 'setlist' tab and that then forms the basis of our set list.
9 We also had a free text option at the end so that people can request songs they'd like to see on the jukebox.

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1673793082951.png
 
In case you wonder 'how' we do this, we went as basic as we could so that all ages could use the system, without giving anything away or installing anything (most people dont want to install an app).

1. We created a Google form with all the songs (120+) on it with check boxes.
2. We do not require people to log in to google or anything for this to work (so no collecting data).
3. We created a QR code and printed & laminated A4 versions with instructions on what to do (Camera/AR reader point and click).
4. We also have a 'backup' option to just go to our Facebook page - The first post is the link to the jukebox.
5. People check the boxes, press submit and that's it.
6. The form is linked to a spreadsheet that captures all the data.
7. The data is linked to a 'setlist' tab which automatically filters to show the most requested songs.
8. We just refresh the 'setlist' tab and that then forms the basis of our set list.
9 We also had a free text option at the end so that people can request songs they'd like to see on the jukebox.

View attachment 114489

View attachment 114490

It's so funny that you're doing this. Our band had the idea to do this last fall but we've been distracted by the need to replace 2 of our band members, so this effort was delayed. I was going to build a Google Form setup similar to this with Scripting to do some heavy lifting for us during busy gigs. We found a service that give is a little more polished look to the customer with search capabilities, though.

It was just funny to see you post about the request format not long after we were discussing it and now seeing you doing my first thought of how to implement it!

I see you have 120+ songs. Is that a good number? We were discussing what the minimum amount of songs we'd need. The issue for us is that we span a lot of genres and aren't just rock-focused. We go from Prince to Guns n Roses to Black Eyed Peas to Journey to Dua Lipa to Backstreet Boys and whatnot.
 
It's so funny that you're doing this. Our band had the idea to do this last fall but we've been distracted by the need to replace 2 of our band members, so this effort was delayed. I was going to build a Google Form setup similar to this with Scripting to do some heavy lifting for us during busy gigs. We found a service that give is a little more polished look to the customer with search capabilities, though.

It was just funny to see you post about the request format not long after we were discussing it and now seeing you doing my first thought of how to implement it!

I see you have 120+ songs. Is that a good number? We were discussing what the minimum amount of songs we'd need. The issue for us is that we span a lot of genres and aren't just rock-focused. We go from Prince to Guns n Roses to Black Eyed Peas to Journey to Dua Lipa to Backstreet Boys and whatnot.
Great minds... :)

We've been doing this for many years and we were all in function bands as well which helped with the number of songs.

We started with printed lists and post-it notes just to see if the concept would fly and for the past 4 years we've used the google forms route and its been great so far.

We have to ensure all songs are top quality and we never rehearse songs that we've played out recently, so rehearsals are 'complex songs' and things that are rarely selected. It keeps rehearsals really interesting and means we're never bored.

We keep adding and removing songs based on the long term data of how many times they have been selected. We've ditched some pretty great songs on the basis that over a 4 year period (30-40 gigs a year) nobody has picked them. It has surprised us what the general public seem to be 'bored' with and we can only assume that the "little wing's" of the world are played by every other band on the circuit.

We don't have a maximum number of songs on the list, and we started with around 80 songs. Based on playing around 30(ish) songs a night, you'd have to have a good selection to really call it a jukebox.

This is really a rock/indie/punk/rock n roll show and i'm in two other bands that cover the nashville/country thing and also the modern dua lipa/chart music type thing.
 
Great minds... :)

We've been doing this for many years and we were all in function bands as well which helped with the number of songs.

We started with printed lists and post-it notes just to see if the concept would fly and for the past 4 years we've used the google forms route and its been great so far.

We have to ensure all songs are top quality and we never rehearse songs that we've played out recently, so rehearsals are 'complex songs' and things that are rarely selected. It keeps rehearsals really interesting and means we're never bored.

We keep adding and removing songs based on the long term data of how many times they have been selected. We've ditched some pretty great songs on the basis that over a 4 year period (30-40 gigs a year) nobody has picked them. It has surprised us what the general public seem to be 'bored' with and we can only assume that the "little wing's" of the world are played by every other band on the circuit.

We don't have a maximum number of songs on the list, and we started with around 80 songs. Based on playing around 30(ish) songs a night, you'd have to have a good selection to really call it a jukebox.

This is really a rock/indie/punk/rock n roll show and i'm in two other bands that cover the nashville/country thing and also the modern dua lipa/chart music type thing.
Thanks for the input! We're also interested in the data. We're also curious if we'd get to drop the usual cliche cover songs if the audience gets to see what else is available. Even at other request shows without a list to choose from, they may only as for Don't Stop Believing or Piano Man because they're also trying to think of songs the band likely knows and don't want to request something too obscure.
 
Hi all,

I thought i'd post a review of my transition from the AX8 to the FM9 and lessons learned and ideas for footswitch setups. The idea here is to hopefully fast track people and avoid making the mistakes i've made in the transition.

I've moved from Axe FX 2 -> AX8 (Early adopter) now to FM9 (recent UK waitlist recipient) and delved pretty deep into the AX8 advanced stuff to get my current sounds.

Main summary (TLDR): Create all patches from scratch, don't convert patches and don't try to copy all your settings/tweaks into the FM9 blocks. I began thinking that I'd made a purchasing error, then I stumbled on a guy on YouTube and it forced me to follow some basic advice that I should have remembered from my AXE FX 2 -> AX8 transition (Bradley Spaulding - FM9 unboxing & pre-set build). Within 10 minutes, I had refocussed and I now have tones that are better than what my AX8 can produce. I wasted 3 days doing it the other way.

Basically, if you just add an amp and cab block in a new pre-set on the FM9, it will immediately be usable and pretty great, this wasn't the case with previous products - I think that's a key takeaway message.

With that said here's the ramble on what works for me:

Footswitches

I love the AX8 switch set up, I struggled with the FM9 setup for these reasons:

a) I preferred the ON/OFF nature of the lights
b) I use the kick tag labels (Clean, Driven, Crunch, Heavy, Solo)
c) I like the ability to see all the patches in a bank on the main screen
d) I'm used to my bottom row being scenes and top row individual effects
e) As a gigging musician, the tap dance is familiar so I want to re-learn as little as possible
f) I use patch names (Songs) but also have a couple of generic Low, Mid and High gain pre-sets.

Solutions:

1. I set the FM9 to use the OMG9 footswitch layout - an excellent starting point.
2. I set the bank size to 5 (Setup/Onboard switches/Config) so i can use the first 5 switches as patch selection (This kind of covers C - Its not ideal).
3. I set the Ring Intensity MIN to the DIM 1% which covers A above. (Setup/Onboard switches/Config)
4. I found that setting the displays to invert (dark with light text) feels more familiar and stops my eyes searching (Setup/Onboard switches/Config).
5. Mini Display Contrast = 38% and Brightness = 77% currently works for me.
6. On the scenes, I've set the hold functions to bring in effects (covers D - effects on rows above). So for my CLEAN scene, holding adds CHORUS, for my DRIVEN scene, holding adds the DRIVE block etc.
7. I changed the Layout Links so that when I select a patch, it defaults to the Scene's layout - one less button to press and mimics the AX8 behaviour.
8. The Top right button has the TUNER set as the hold function (just like the AX8). - The top right and bottom right buttons are set to bank up/down for pre-sets.
9. The bottom 6 buttons for each patch for scenes are CLEAN (S1), DRIVEN (S2), CRUNCH (S3), HEAVY (S4), More..., SOLO (S8)
10. I set the hold features for ON/OFF as follows CHORUS, DRIVE 1, AMP Boost (Control Switch 1), DELAY 1, More..., SOLO ALT (Scene 7)
11. The AMP Boost is a control switch (Check out the CS per scene ON/OFF/LAST settings for the CS switches - very useful)
12. I'm using the Mini-Display custom label to get the CS1 switch to say AMP Boost instead of CS1 - again very useful.

Patches

Create from scratch (See the summary above) - don't do this...

1. Connected both AX8 and FM9 to my PC and used an A/B/Y both to switch my guitar input between them.
2. Converted my AX8 patch to AXE FX 3 then imported to FM9 (The blocks may work but do seem to start form a "screwed up" place so just don't do this).
3. Reset each block and started copying parameters back in manually. I got odd results because the patch was still 'converted' - so again, don't do this.
4. I created a new patch, manually added blocks and immediately went through every parameter matching them up - This got me reasonably close but the AX8 still sounded better (mainly clarity & string separation)- This is obvious, my patches are familiar and all tweaks over the many years work with that particular firmware.
5. I then tweaked the FM9 to 'try' to get closer but was never able to achieve it. This tricked my brain into thinking it was inferior.
6. I went to rehearsal, and it sounded great but not as good as the AX8. Again, my brain is using confirmation bias so i'm thinking its not good enough.
7. At that point, i reset myself and expectations and watched a few more 'unboxing' videos and got where i am today.

General Issues/observations:

1. The mini-displays aren't big enough to show full patch names so you've got to be careful so you know what the patch is. I wish you could see all the patches in a bank on the main display (as per the AX8) but it doesn't seem that's possible right now.
2. I can turn the colour of a switch to OFF/No Colour but it would be nice if the DIM could be 0% instead
3. I had some very strange loud digital noises when changing patches - This is because I set the global spill over to ON (As per my AX8). This is unnecessary because you can generally do everything in a single pre-set. Turning it off again solved that problem.
4. With the AX8 I made use of scene controllers for input drive for amps etc. Basically I just moved this over to Channels (4 amps) and Drive block (4 drives) or more if you use 2 amps etc. I got much better results because with Scene controllers you're just upping the input drive and not compensating other aspects. With this channel approach, you can adjust the input drive and take down a little bottom end or mids or whatever you need.
5. I'd like to look at the set/song list feature because we do a virtual jukebox of over 100 songs and I could draw on the best patches/scenes and put them in Alphabetical order. The issue I have, is that the mini display approach feels like i'd be wasting time to get from Song A to Z (having in mind we don't have a set list to work from so don't know what's been requested next) . I currently use around 10 'song specific' patches and the rest just draw on my LOW, MID and HIGH gain pre-sets. I guess for now I'll stick with that approach.

Right - I think that's enough information for now. I hope it helps on the AX8 -> FM9 transition journey.

Andy.
I feel you on this post!! I’m coming back in here from being missing and doing many gigs with my Ax8 for years. Decided to go with the FM9 and make a copy of my favorite Ax8 presets, it failed as well, sounded inferior and I couldn’t figure out why! Then after much going back and forth and using screenshots of the AX8, I found out I was using the wrong version of my favorite presets for the Splawn Quickrod, any Splawn owners, or even if you don’t own one, make sure to check the amp information and find the one that is GEAR 1 OD2, or GEAR 1 OD1, (these are the Hot Rodded Plexi modes) and you can also try GEAR 2, OD1, (hot rodded 800) these are the “real” settings for my real Splawn Quickrod, and they sound incredible as a starting point, I’m not sure what I was trying before I realized this, I think I was on GEAR 2 or 3 OD 2, these will be too much gain, bass and compression, I never use GEAR 3 on my Splawn Quickrod, so it took me 3 days to figure out something was wrong. I also muted the 2nd cab block, ( the V30 block) I try to use all my presets as though they are the real world, so no two amp rigs, or two cab rigs for me. Too many guys using over processed sounds to me with the FM9, not many organic sounding presets on YouTube IMO, but thanks for the info, I have a long way to go before this thing is gig ready, because like you, I’m use to my pedalboard layout,and I don’t even know how to drag and drop pedals yet, (not sure they even still do that?!) thanks
 
Keep at it, I've been gigging regularly with it ever since and am receiving excellent comments from audience members. I'm also now quite used to the new foot dance!
 
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