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AX8 Price Point - At what price do you get upset?

john_p

Inspired
We'll see what it is in two days on Oct 1st as Cliff previously stated that would be the release date...
I wonder what the actual available date will be though... G66 didn't have any information on european orders last week so I'm guessing it could be a while before we see them over here in the UK.
 

ethomas1013

Forum Addict
We'll see what it is in two days on Oct 1st as Cliff previously stated that would be the release date...
Why do people keep posting that Oct 1 is the release date?

In April, Cliff said they are "aiming" for an Oct 1 release. Unless there has been a recent update I would not assume the 1st is written in stone. I hope it is, but let's not set people up for a letdown full of crying, moaning, and complaints if the 1st turns out not the be the release.
 

svl

Forum Addict
Agreed with everything on your post except for the price. I am leaning towards an even $2K which is more than reasonable ($1999). It's worth $500 more than the Helix if we are still at a rudimentary comparison "debate", but it offers everything that the AFX II does with an integrated foot controller.... To the OP, $3K would be too much, $2K is right at the balance point of market share and a reasonable price for the value you obtain. I personally cannot wait for it...
I think $2k is high, and not really "aggressive" considering the lower ended processors and limited blocks. And even though I'm not in the Helix market, for those out there who are a $500 difference will make ALL the difference in what they purchase.
 

DavidE

Forum Addict
Wow! I have nothing to prove to anyone it really doesn't matter to me either way. Just sharing what I've read no need to throw jabs dude. Simply making an effort to help you find some answers! Where's all this offense coming from anyway? None intended for sure! Sorry I wasted time on this God Bless you man may you find resolve and peace!
I get offended when people write posts as facts and cannot provide a basis for those facts. It's a waste of my time and everyone else reading this thread. You do have something to prove; that what you wrote as fact is true. You refuse or fail to support your statement.
 

ptgold

Inspired
2K price is too much and not worth it to ME. In that case Id rather buy a used AXE2 at around 1800 (fair used price)

Its going to be priced at around 1300-1500.
 

DavidE

Forum Addict
In an attempt to steer this back to my original post, my only question related to the price difference between an AX8 and an FX8.
 

pima1234

Fractal Fanatic
It should be higher than the FX8, for sure.

With the FX8 at $1350 and the XL+ at $2250 with MFC at $750, even $2k would be completely reasonable. That may not exactly be aggressive pricing though, which is why I said $1799.
 

Yianni54

Inspired
In an attempt to steer this back to my original post, my only question related to the price difference between an AX8 and an FX8.
Its kinda of tough not to include the Ax-fx in the conversation, as that is the benchmark we compare ALL other multifx units.
 

maxdown

Fractal Fanatic
I think a used AX8 is in my future... a new AX8 is probably the same price as my Mark 2 + FCB. No reason to take a step back in functionality in order to gain a small amount of convenience - heck the Mark 2 + FCB is already extremely convenient!
Now that's a reply I can relate to as an AxeFXII/MFC owner myself ....... the AxeFX is still the flagship product. Anything else I might buy will only be as a backup modelling unit capable of plugging into my Matrix GT1000 and cabs to get me out of the shit if the AxeFX goes down.

As I'm the wrong side of the pond for getting good deals on US manufactured goods ... well it sort of makes the choice for me more biased towards the 'backup' product that doesn't rape my bank account as much. The quality of sound is secondary.

So to answer the OP question ...... I won't get upset at any initial new price ..... my choice of product and buying point is at least 6 months after the launch when used units from either L6 or FAS might start to appear.

I do however think it will cost more than the FX8 because it will be a complete rig style product (amp/FX/Cab/Midi pedal) - $1799 to $1899?

I'm more than happy with my AxeFXII ..... and it is my gear of choice for any size gig and takes up no more space than the other product(s) would.

If I didn't have the AxeFX/MFC already ..... the AX8 being a FAS product would be preying more heavily on my mind tho .... a AxeFX XL+ and MFC bought new now would probably be a little too much for me once Customs add on their pound of flesh before it gets to G66.

Then again ..... both these new modelling floor units we speak of have actually to hit the rigours of the road test yet ...... so reliability is a bigger factor than cost in my world :indecisiveness:

And what price is a used first gen toaster style Kemper nowdays as a backup?? :indecisiveness:
 

NBC455

Regular
Well let's hope that Oct 1st date is real, wouldn't want to see two major product releases botched back to back... That's not good for any company..
 

FullReverse

Regular
"I get offended when people write posts as facts and cannot provide a basis for those facts. It's a waste of my time and everyone else reading this thread. You do have something to prove; that what you wrote as fact is true. You refuse or fail to support your statement."

Welcome to the internet.
 

svl

Forum Addict
Well let's hope that Oct 1st date is real, wouldn't want to see two major product releases botched back to back... That's not good for any company..
Jeebus- THERE IS NO HARD DATE FOR THE RELEASE. Cliff gave a TENTATIVE date, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in April. He did not guarantee it would be October 1st, and no announcement for an ACTUAL RELEASE DATE has been provided by the company. If they don't release it on Oct. 1st it will have ZERO effect on the product, the company or anything else FAS related. People will STILL buy the AX8, they will STILL hail FAS as the best modeling products/company in the world, and Cliff will STILL sleep at night (well, as much as he does on any night given the dedication he has to making the best damn fucking products on the planet).

Nothing has been, nor will be, "botched".

Again.... JEEBUS!
 

ethomas1013

Forum Addict
Well let's hope that Oct 1st date is real, wouldn't want to see two major product releases botched back to back... That's not good for any company..
Botched? Seriously?

I'd rather see a major product delayed and released when it's ready than rushed out with problems... I think the reputation of both companies will be just fine regardless of whether the products are a day, week, or month(s) late. A release with lots of initial problems will do more damage than a late release.
 

svl

Forum Addict
Agree with you on not rushing just to hit a deadline, ethomas, but you're missing the main point- THERE IS NO OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE. People just need to let that FACT sink in and stop yammering about it.
 

Audiounity

Regular
I could care less about the AX8 except for the fact that it and Quantum is keeping the FX8 from getting some loving. Everyone's Quantum this and AX8 that and we're like, hey, how about some goodies for the FX8. I have a day to still decide if I'm going to keep the FX8 and I have to say.... I'd feel better about this product if it didn't feel neglected, other than one blurb that new firmware will be on the way without a smidgeon of enticement about what that might entail.

I mean, if all of Fractal's attention will be on the AX8, I should return the FX8 and get that instead, especially if it does run all the effects. The only thing it seems to be missing is the relays.

But supposedly the FX8 is quieter in SOME setups. But until the FX8 the Axe-FX was running 4cm in many pro rigs, from Petrucii to Vai with no problems.

You know, Fractal is a great company, and I usually hold my tongue when I have respect for a company. But Fractal has not done much to ally fears of new FX8 owners. All this discussion about the AX8 being way more powerful than the FX8 for just a few hundred more, including a gird that would make effects building more effective with shunts, and it seams like not one word from the company to ally FX8 buyers fears. Like, yeah, we'll put in a grid for the FX8 as well, we have some new drives in the works that work better with tube amps (since tube amps are more variable than the closed variable design of making them work with the amp sims.) I mean, even with the tone suck technology, it's more based on the user response than Fractal.

I hate to say this because I love Fractal, but I get the feeling that with 3 products they are letting things be ambiguous. Tone Suck FX8 technology is mentioned, but to not go against the marketing of the XL+ which also has been marketed beforehand to be made with humbuster 4cm technology, I feel that Fractal wants you to think there is no tone suck if you but the XL+, but also wants you to think that you have less tone suck if you buy the FX8. Fractal seems pretty active in the Axe-FX forum, but not very active here. We need to know what to expect, because it really does feel like the FX8 is the red headed step child and it would be nice to have some clear answers of what the benefits and cons of each product, now and in the future, will be in no ambiguous terms.

The issue is that having three competing products is a new paradigm for Fractal. No one wants to say that the AX8 is noisy if it doesn't have the technology in the FX8, yet if it's not noisy, why buy the FX8? There needs to be some clarity. There needs to be some discussion about what we can expect on our end, because I there are some new users here who can return the units, and older users who are thinking of selling, and we are not getting any information about the vision for this product. While just check over next door in the Axe-Fx AX8 section and it's a party while here it's cricket. Will the FX8 get a grid so you can use shunts and get some of those delay and verb modulated patches that some people dug in their strymons? The FX8 shouldn't have less effects programming than the AX8 to me. Or maybe I got the wrong idea about the FX8? I thought it was dedicated to effects and wouldn't be the weakest effects programming wise of the three. That's Fractal's decision. But they should let us know a little more clearly, to let the consumer make an informed decision.

My 2 cents.
I've never criticized fractal before, ever.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I could care less about the AX8 except for the fact that it and Quantum is keeping the FX8 from getting some loving. Everyone's Quantum this and AX8 that and we're like, hey, how about some goodies for the FX8. I have a day to still decide if I'm going to keep the FX8 and I have to say.... I'd feel better about this product if it didn't feel neglected, other than one blurb that new firmware will be on the way without a smidgeon of enticement about what that might entail.

I mean, if all of Fractal's attention will be on the AX8, I should return the FX8 and get that instead, especially if it does run all the effects. The only thing it seems to be missing is the relays.

But supposedly the FX8 is quieter in SOME setups. But until the FX8 the Axe-FX was running 4cm in many pro rigs, from Petrucii to Vai with no problems.

You know, Fractal is a great company, and I usually hold my tongue when I have respect for a company. But Fractal has not done much to ally fears of new FX8 owners. All this discussion about the AX8 being way more powerful than the FX8 for just a few hundred more, including a gird that would make effects building more effective with shunts, and it seams like not one word from the company to ally FX8 buyers fears. Like, yeah, we'll put in a grid for the FX8 as well, we have some new drives in the works that work better with tube amps (since tube amps are more variable than the closed variable design of making them work with the amp sims.) I mean, even with the tone suck technology, it's more based on the user response than Fractal.

I hate to say this because I love Fractal, but I get the feeling that with 3 products they are letting things be ambiguous. Tone Suck FX8 technology is mentioned, but to not go against the marketing of the XL+ which also has been marketed beforehand to be made with humbuster 4cm technology, I feel that Fractal wants you to think there is no tone suck if you but the XL+, but also wants you to think that you have less tone suck if you buy the FX8. Fractal seems pretty active in the Axe-FX forum, but not very active here. We need to know what to expect, because it really does feel like the FX8 is the red headed step child and it would be nice to have some clear answers of what the benefits and cons of each product, now and in the future, will be in no ambiguous terms.

The issue is that having three competing products is a new paradigm for Fractal. No one wants to say that the AX8 is noisy if it doesn't have the technology in the FX8, yet if it's not noisy, why buy the FX8? There needs to be some clarity. There needs to be some discussion about what we can expect on our end, because I there are some new users here who can return the units, and older users who are thinking of selling, and we are not getting any information about the vision for this product. While just check over next door in the Axe-Fx AX8 section and it's a party while here it's cricket. Will the FX8 get a grid so you can use shunts and get some of those delay and verb modulated patches that some people dug in their strymons? The FX8 shouldn't have less effects programming than the AX8 to me. Or maybe I got the wrong idea about the FX8? I thought it was dedicated to effects and wouldn't be the weakest effects programming wise of the three. That's Fractal's decision. But they should let us know a little more clearly, to let the consumer make an informed decision.

My 2 cents.
I've never criticized fractal before, ever.
The AX-8 is not "way more powerful" than the FX-8. No one from the company ever said that. The AX-8 has one additional DSP that is DEDICATED to amp modeling. If you don't use the amp modeling the AX-8 has the same power as the FX-8.

As we stated recently we are working on a firmware release for the FX-8.

The AX-8 will not work as well as the FX-8 in 4CM. It is not designed for that. It will do 4CM, as will most digital processors but the FX-8 is the only processor of which I'm aware that is truly optimized for 4CM. That optimization requires a lot of expensive circuitry. The op-amps used are very expensive and there's dozens of them just to support the 4CM stuff. Add to that relays for true bypass, metal film capacitors, etc., etc., and you end up with an expensive design.

The FX-8 and AX-8 are built on the same code base. There is a single folder that is used to build the common elements for both products. Enhancements to one automatically enhance the other. All this work we've been doing for the AX-8 will improve the FX-8.

The AX-8 will be much more popular than the FX-8. That should be obvious. Most people want the amp modeling. If you don't care about the amp modeling then the FX-8 is the better product and the whole reason for having two different products.
 
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