AX8 FOH with in-ears?

[s0c9]

I really want control over 32 channels but I prefer using the p16. Did a gig where I had to use the app to control my mix and twice lost connection to the router and it was very aggravating

This is a problem with many "bands".. they are happy with the digital aspects of audio and remote control, but they know NOTHING about wireless and how to maintain a connection without interference. Accepting router defaults generally works at home but usually NOT in a band venue (club, bar, festival...)
See my post earlier in this thread or some details on what we do. We have ZERO issues.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ax8-foh-with-in-ears.126679/page-3#post-1674538

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

This is so true. Try running some reference music (a CD you know well) through your complete IEM chain, and listen to the EQ. Fix the curve to suit your taste, then try your guitar through the IEMs.

It’s a world of difference really.

Going to try a reference track tonight and see if I can make my IEMs work a little better for me. Also, tonight will be the first gig without the crutch of a 100w head and a 4x12, so this is do or die for me.

 

[xacalus]

Anyone going "ampless" with their AX8 and running direct to FOH with in ears? I've been doing this lately and wondering if anyone has advice/recommendations for getting a really good mix through their in ears. I'm finding that many presets that sound good when dialed in through my xitone don't translate well in my in ears. I'm using dual driver Shure (425) in ears and audio technica M3 wireless.

I've seen recommendations in the wiki for adjusting the cab block to help when using headphones, but since I should be hearing what I'm sending to FOH this wouldn't necessarily be the right place to start (or is it?)

Looking for any pointers.

Thanks!

I use the mix in stereo for my in ears and is super great!!!!

 

[xacalus]

Also i use UE7 PRO IEMs

 

[Rayos]

I'll resurrect this thread to tell my recent experiences.

I'm very happy using IEM. Mainly because there is not a lot of volume onstage.

But I get to much treble in my guitar. FOH sounds very good, but that extra treble makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't play with the confidence I have with the sound I like.

So last two gigs (both last saturday) we put a low pass filter in my guitar IEM line. I think we cut around... 5Khz. I didn't want to go lower. It was a little better, but still not what I want.

So I don't know if I should try it lower or if there is any other thing to consider.

Any ideas?

Thank you!

 

[TimMcG1011]

Can't say enough GREAT things about my KZ-AS10s. They're 5 driver and under $70. Don't know how they do it, but they're worth every penny. If you're using dual or triple drivers you owe it to yourself to try these. Especially at that price! I'm finally happy doing IEM gigs and the guitar finally sounds like guitar.

 

[TimMcG1011]

I'll resurrect this thread to tell my recent experiences.

I'm very happy using IEM. Mainly because there is not a lot of volume onstage.

But I get to much treble in my guitar. FOH sounds very good, but that extra treble makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't play with the confidence I have with the sound I like.

So last two gigs (both last saturday) we put a low pass filter in my guitar IEM line. I think we cut around... 5Khz. I didn't want to go lower. It was a little better, but still not what I want.

So I don't know if I should try it lower or if there is any other thing to consider.

Any ideas?

Thank you!

One other idea. Do you adjust your global EQ or leave it flat? I start rolling off at 4k and 16k is 0. I do it globally so no need for filter blocks and I adjust my presets from there. FOH and IEM sound equally good.

 

[Rayos]

Can't say enough GREAT things about my KZ-AS10s. They're 5 driver and under $70. Don't know how they do it, but they're worth every penny. If you're using dual or triple drivers you owe it to yourself to try these. Especially at that price! I'm finally happy doing IEM gigs and the guitar finally sounds like guitar.

Yes, I'm using exactly those earphones. Very nice sounding. And very cheap. So cheap, in fact, that I got two; one of them for the other guitar player in the band. Thanks!

One other idea. Do you adjust your global EQ or leave it flat? I start rolling off at 4k and 16k is 0. I do it globally so no need for filter blocks and I adjust my presets from there. FOH and IEM sound equally good.

Hmm... I use global eq, but just cutting the very low and high frequencies. So many things to consider in the AX8 that I never thought about that once I set it a few months ago. But that could be the key. I'm trying it today (after the "siesta"). Thank you very much.

 

[jclemensfl]

I'll resurrect this thread to tell my recent experiences.

I'm very happy using IEM. Mainly because there is not a lot of volume onstage.

But I get to much treble in my guitar. FOH sounds very good, but that extra treble makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't play with the confidence I have with the sound I like.

So last two gigs (both last saturday) we put a low pass filter in my guitar IEM line. I think we cut around... 5Khz. I didn't want to go lower. It was a little better, but still not what I want.

So I don't know if I should try it lower or if there is any other thing to consider.

Any ideas?

Thank you!

A couple of questions: Do you control the front of the house sound? What IEM system are you using? Does everything in your ears have too much treble, or just the guitar?

If you roll off your AX8 global EQ, that will also affect the FOH sound, so that solution really depends on if you have control of the FOH and can adjust it accordingly to suit you. If you're really happy with the FOH sound now, changing the global EQ will change that as well, so that may not be the solution you want.

If everything in your ears is too much treble, that is largely a function of the IEMs you are using. For a well-rounded sound, you just won't find anything useful without custom molds, with at least 2-3 drivers. Without the solid seal of custom molds, you'll simply lose bass response, resulting in thin sound.

But if budget is an issue, and everything in your ears sound like too much treble, many IEM receivers have the ability to perform rudimentary EQ adjustments, so your best bet may be to roll off the highs there, which will not affect your FOH sound. If your IEM receiver doesn't have an EQ, then your AUX return from the board might, depending on your system.

If the only thing that sounds like it has too much treble is your guitar, I would suggest splitting the difference. Do a minor roll-off of the high end eq on your IEM receiver first, then adjust your global EQ to taste. The will affect your FOH sound in a less noticeable way that can be easily adjusted by whomever is mixing the band.

 

[thegrizman]

Can't say enough GREAT things about my KZ-AS10s. They're 5 driver and under $70. Don't know how they do it, but they're worth every penny. If you're using dual or triple drivers you owe it to yourself to try these. Especially at that price! I'm finally happy doing IEM gigs and the guitar finally sounds like guitar.

Yes I use KZ's as well and anyone with expensive in ears should buy these as a backup at least. The drummer at church dropped his $800 in ears and shattered one of the ear pieces. Very expensive to fix.

 

[Rayos]

A couple of questions: Do you control the front of the house sound? What IEM system are you using? Does everything in your ears have too much treble, or just the guitar?

If you roll off your AX8 global EQ, that will also affect the FOH sound, so that solution really depends on if you have control of the FOH and can adjust it accordingly to suit you. If you're really happy with the FOH sound now, changing the global EQ will change that as well, so that may not be the solution you want.

If everything in your ears is too much treble, that is largely a function of the IEMs you are using. For a well-rounded sound, you just won't find anything useful without custom molds, with at least 2-3 drivers. Without the solid seal of custom molds, you'll simply lose bass response, resulting in thin sound.

But if budget is an issue, and everything in your ears sound like too much treble, many IEM receivers have the ability to perform rudimentary EQ adjustments, so your best bet may be to roll off the highs there, which will not affect your FOH sound. If your IEM receiver doesn't have an EQ, then your AUX return from the board might, depending on your system.

If the only thing that sounds like it has too much treble is your guitar, I would suggest splitting the difference. Do a minor roll-off of the high end eq on your IEM receiver first, then adjust your global EQ to taste. The will affect your FOH sound in a less noticeable way that can be easily adjusted by whomever is mixing the band.

That's all very interesting. Thank you very much!

Yesterday I tried the global eq at home. I noticed that, at home, what I hear with my own IEM is ok (it puzzles me). And, as you say, if I'm ok with the FOH sound (I do), the global eq won't be the solution.

I have a cheap In Ear System for private gigs (LD MEI 1000 G2). In big gigs we use the Systems supplied by the stage crew (they use to be high quality).

Tomorrow I'll check if that treble excess is in every instrument in my mix, but I think it isn't (anyway it's not a disturbing thing, for me. I don't expect to have a perfect mix in my ears, but, after a lot of gigs with IEM, I'm starting to want a more comfortable sound in my guitar). And, of course I tell our sound engineer (always the same man) to set my channel flat in the FOH.

My own IEM just has a fixed 6 db boost at 10 Khz. It doesn't make it sound right, and the supplied systems... Well, the sound check is not airways the best moment to dive into the receiver's possibilities to adjust the sound (and the crew generally don't know how to do it), so we are using that Low Pass Filter in the guitar signal going to my ears.

Maybe I won't be Ok until I get those custom molds you say. I have custom made ear plugs and they are much more comfortable than generic eraphones. So... Maybe I'll get some and I'll have both advantages.

And I'll definitely try that splitting thing you say, if we can't fix it with my AUX return eq.

Thank you very much again.

 

[Smittefar]

You really should bring your personal IEM system home for testing. It is my experience that even high-end wireless transmitters for IEM sounds much worse than a cabled connection.

 

[Rayos]

You mean connecting the earphones direct to the transmitter?

In case yes, I have to check that. No way to do that onstage, but it's a good idea for checking and learning.

Thank you!

 

[Smittefar]

I used to run wired in-ears - I had a long cable from the mixer to my board and from there along the guitar cable to my in-ears. Then at some point, I bought wireless for both guitar and in-ears, and while I could hear no difference in my guitar tone due to the wireless, my in-ear sound was significantly worse - I have the Shure PSM300 system.

 

[Mike Scaggs]

In a perfect world I would have a speaker behind me like the good old days but.... I'm direct in FOH using Avioms for my mix like some other here have mentioned. My IEM are FutureSonics and are moulded, they are awesome but expensive (worth it IMHO)

 

[macfly]

I'd guess it's been covered but I'm just coming to this and have not read all four pages. I started with an Atomic CLR and dialed in everything to that, including some final, minor touchups in the master eq for Out 1. Out 2 drives my in-ears and that eq also required some minor adjustment. I'm sure it depends on what amps and sounds but for mine, which is generally a Friedman BEv2 into the Marshall basketweave AX IR, the cab is chopped at around 80-120 and 4000-5000. I'm using UE7s, and find that they are pretty good at the same eq, but some adjustment to 125Hz, 500, and 2K were good start points. My last step was to play along with mp3s through my IEM rig and make small adjustments to get the guitar to sit on top better. Also, I have a Shure PM4 that allows me to pan my guitar just slightly to one side and the band mix just slightly to the other. That really helps for clarity. It took a lot of work, but I'm very happy with the sound of my guitar in IEMs. Full transparency, I still like listening to the room better, but my tinnitus is getting really bad, so I'm trying really hard to be good about IEMs and keeping them turned down. Last thing, I could not get off-the-shelf earbuds to work. It really required a completely seal in my ear. I'm right next to a sub and the low end rumble creates absolute MUD if my ears aren't sealed.

 

[s0c9]

I used to run wired in-ears - I had a long cable from the mixer to my board and from there along the guitar cable to my in-ears. Then at some point, I bought wireless for both guitar and in-ears, and while I could hear no difference in my guitar tone due to the wireless, my in-ear sound was significantly worse - I have the Shure PSM300 system.

If that is true, then something is wrong with your IEM feed from the console, the buds you are using, or the choice of channel.
Are you running a stereo mix/feed to the 300?
Is the input sensitivity set to LINE or AUX?
Are the input levels on the transmitter adjusted (gain-staged) properly?
There is no EQ adjustment on the receiver (like I get with my Senn G3) so the mix you are receiving from the console may be EQ'd incorrectly.
IME, and with 10 yrs of working IEM's (both guitar and bass) for me and others, the complaint you have is usually "user error".
While these devices are sold as "plug-n-play" that is usually not the case due to RF saturation in your area, and other factors. These vendors can't sell BAD units to consumers. Word gets out quickly, and while the PSM300 replaced the PSM200 as their entry-level system, I seriously doubt there are signal path deficiencies with the product.
If you can answer the questions above, and provide more details on how you get your IEM feed from the console (which console for example), we can start working thru what might be causing your issue, and get you a good IEM mix

PS: NO, wireless IEM connections do NOT sound much worse than cabled/wired.. not when set up correctly. I'll take my IEM's over ANY wedge mix EVERY TIME!

 

[Smittefar]

I also prefer IEM over wedges - Using the same Mackie DL32r mixer, I switched from using the headphone output of the Mackie and use line outs (XLR), stereo to the PSM300 and from there to the same in-ear monitors (Shure 535s). The output from the mixer runs close to zero, but it was still easily noticeable that the wireless connection had more noise and less dynamics. It does not sound bad per se, the sound quality is just not as good as the wired connection was.

 

[Rayos]

If that is true, then something is wrong with your IEM feed from the console, the buds you are using, or the choice of channel.
Are you running a stereo mix/feed to the 300?
Is the input sensitivity set to LINE or AUX?
Are the input levels on the transmitter adjusted (gain-staged) properly?
There is no EQ adjustment on the receiver (like I get with my Senn G3) so the mix you are receiving from the console may be EQ'd incorrectly.
IME, and with 10 yrs of working IEM's (both guitar and bass) for me and others, the complaint you have is usually "user error".
While these devices are sold as "plug-n-play" that is usually not the case due to RF saturation in your area, and other factors. These vendors can't sell BAD units to consumers. Word gets out quickly, and while the PSM300 replaced the PSM200 as their entry-level system, I seriously doubt there are signal path deficiencies with the product.
If you can answer the questions above, and provide more details on how you get your IEM feed from the console (which console for example), we can start working thru what might be causing your issue, and get you a good IEM mix

PS: NO, wireless IEM connections do NOT sound much worse than cabled/wired.. not when set up correctly. I'll take my IEM's over ANY wedge mix EVERY TIME!

Very interesting approach. I'll try to check it at next soundcheck.

 

[s0c9]

Very interesting approach. I'll try to check it at next soundcheck.

Cool. Let us know.