Ax8 Firmware

[thatrandomguy1]

I'm not sure if this has been previously discussed or not, but there's obviously been a lot talk regarding firmware updates for the Axe II now that the III exists. According to another thread, there is no sequel to the Ax8 in the near future, but I've read that the Ax8 and the Axe II run off of the same code. The ultimate question with all of this is: will fractal continue to add things to the Ax8 even if updates for the Axe II stop? Hypothetical Example: The Axe II doesn't get the tri-chorus effect from the next update. Cliff stated that development for a product that won't generate revenue isn't feasible, so it is quite possible that the tri-chorus wouldn't be ported to the Axe II. That being said, could the Ax8 get the Tri-chorus or better pitch tracking in an update since it's not at the end of it's life and still generates revenue?

 

[lqdsnddist]

The ax8 has less cpu than the II so I would expect less significant updates, though it’s still a current product so I’d expect some continued refinements overall, but it’s not going to be profound, just as it isn’t for the II.

If FAS doesn’t think it makes good business sense to fully port Ares to the II XL+ at $1699, they certainly wouldn’t do it for a $1100 product.

Essentially, it’s not end of line, but it’s never going to become a III via software either

 

[pauliusmm]

I see it like this : if AX8 will not get updated much this means new AX8 MKII is in the pipeline.
So either way it is good.

 

[paulasbell]

If FAS doesn’t think it makes good business sense to fully port Ares to the II XL+ at $1699

Please correct me if I'm wrong... but my recollection is that Ares WON'T FIT into the AxeFx2. So, obviously, it won't fit into the AX8, either.
What Cliff said was that certain PARTS of Ares could be ported over to AxeFx2. So, hopefully, it can also be ported over to AX8.

 

[thatrandomguy1]

I'm not asking if Ares will be ported to the Ax8 necessarily. I'm just wondering if they'll do continuous updates considering it's still a live product, regardless of how much it costs. Fractal has a pretty good history of taking care of their customers. I would just find it hard to believe that they wouldn't add some kind of UI updates or effects to the Ax8 just because the Axe III exists.

 

[lqdsnddist]

You have to keep in mind a lot of updates were bug fixes and improvements in interface etc. as the ax8 becomes a well polished product there is less that needs update and more so they will be adding an amp model etc

The III is probably going to have a bunch of updates but that is because it’s not really polished yet, same way the II was in the first year or so.

The ax8 essentially came out of the box already having about 25 firmware updates that my II had receivered over years of ownership since I bought that early on. As such, I wouldn’t expect 25 major updates on the ax8 just because I had that on the II.

 

[Will Chen]

I'm not asking if Ares will be ported to the Ax8 necessarily. I'm just wondering if they'll do continuous updates considering it's still a live product, regardless of how much it costs. Fractal has a pretty good history of taking care of their customers. I would just find it hard to believe that they wouldn't add some kind of UI updates or effects to the Ax8 just because the Axe III exists.

If you're buying a Fractal product for the updates, there will absolutely come a time when those updates will stop either due to relative product maturity or new product release and you will be disappointed. In all honesty, the updates for the AX8 since I've owned it have all been relatively minor, mostly either fixes or subtle improvements to the firmware. I think there have been maybe a handful of effects and amps. The continued support has been great, but I expect that all to stop at this point. From an efficiency and economic standpoint in a small shop, if multiple products are supported it makes the most sense for the firmwares to be as similar as possible. I don't see Fractal continuing to develop for both the AX8 and the III and feel pretty confident the III will get almost all the attention going forward.

 

[lqdsnddist]

I guess FAS shot themselves in the foot so to speak because now new owners are expecting monthly updates just because that was how it worked in the past

It’s essentially a thinking of it being like amp of the month club where you buy it and are entitled to new free stuff

They could maybe add silly little updates saying it “fixes” a certain value, but when you’ve already got 200 plus amps and such it just becomes tough to probably find that much to add or improve month after month

 

[Ericbr1]

People should not worry about updates for the Ax8 and enjoy the thing. It's INCREDIBLE and almost infinite the way it is! If you really are someone who constantly worries about or expects updates, I guess it's time to sell it and buy the newest/bestest product and start that whole cycle again. . I did not ever sit around and await AX8 updates, as they ended up being a large amount of work for me each time reprogramming everything every time I updated. Anyway, if you /we ever get more Ax8 updates, then you'll be pleasantly surprised, but to expect regular ones will be a losing battle at this point.

Signed, Ax8 lover

 

[Sonofiam]

Too much speculation. If the AX8, or FX8 for that matter, no longer receives any updates so what? I have my feeling on the matter but for now I'll simply play and enjoy them as they are. There's absolutely nothing either of them needs at this point. This conjecture of whether there's going to be any more updates or that if they stopped that FAS would somehow be doing us a disservice is simply baffling.

What really gripes me, and I suppose why I chose to respond, is there's been a lot of threads about this lately and it seems that if there were no more updates for the 'legacy' products there would be a lot users upset with FAS, lamenting that they have 'abandoned' us and is turning our gear into obsolete junk. Other than the rare bug, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the AX8. Any request since the launch of the Axe III I've seen has had nothing to do with anything 'wrong' with the AX8, just wanting more for the simple reason that the new product has it.

If you feel that FAS is doing something wrong by not keeping us informed or feel that they would somehow be failing us should they no longer add features to the AX8,who do you think you are to feel you're entitled to anything from FAS? We've each decided the AX8 was worth the price, FAS delivered a dependable product that did what they said it would, actually surpassed, without any guarantee of future improvements or enhancements. By giving us updates that add effects, amps, cabs, reduce CPU limits, improve dynamic response and add features that users wished for, FAS has gone way above and beyond their 'responsibility' as a manufacturer/retailer.

So.... Quit with all of the conjecture, the guessing what they will do and telling them what they should do. Quit with this idea that we're entitled to anything at all. Enjoy what you have in the floor in front of you. It's the one every other brand is chasing.

 

[thatrandomguy1]

People should not worry about updates for the Ax8 and enjoy the thing. It's INCREDIBLE and almost infinite the way it is! If you really are someone who constantly worries about or expects updates, I guess it's time to sell it and buy the newest/bestest product and start that whole cycle again. . I did not ever sit around and await AX8 updates, as they ended up being a large amount of work for me each time reprogramming everything every time I updated. Anyway, if you /we ever get more Ax8 updates, then you'll be pleasantly surprised, but to expect regular ones will be a losing battle at this point.

Signed, Ax8 lover

I can enjoy my fractal and acknowledge that it's an incredible piece of gear and still ask if we'll be getting updated effects like better pitch shifting. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I wouldn't be miserable if we didn't get regular updates either and I'm not the type that buys a fractal product with an entitled attitude expecting a ton of free stuff or anything unrealistic. In an unrelated comment, I really wish the fractal community were better about this attitude.. "If you ask any kind of question about updates or future improvements, you're ungrateful because this thing is amazing bla bla fractal kissassery bla bla bla " as if we didn't already know that it was a great product.

 

[thatrandomguy1]

Too much speculation. If the AX8, or FX8 for that matter, no longer receives any updates so what? I have my feeling on the matter but for now I'll simply play and enjoy them as they are. There's absolutely nothing either of them needs at this point. This conjecture of whether there's going to be any more updates or that if they stopped that FAS would somehow be doing us a disservice is simply baffling.

What really gripes me, and I suppose why I chose to respond, is there's been a lot of threads about this lately and it seems that if there were no more updates for the 'legacy' products there would be a lot users upset with FAS, lamenting that they have 'abandoned' us and is turning our gear into obsolete junk. Other than the rare bug, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the AX8. Any request since the launch of the Axe III I've seen has had nothing to do with anything 'wrong' with the AX8, just wanting more for the simple reason that the new product has it.

If you feel that FAS is doing something wrong by not keeping us informed or feel that they would somehow be failing us should they no longer add features to the AX8,who do you think you are to feel you're entitled to anything from FAS? We've each decided the AX8 was worth the price, FAS delivered a dependable product that did what they said it would, actually surpassed, without any guarantee of future improvements or enhancements. By giving us updates that add effects, amps, cabs, reduce CPU limits, improve dynamic response and add features that users wished for, FAS has gone way above and beyond their 'responsibility' as a manufacturer/retailer.

So.... Quit with all of the conjecture, the guessing what they will do and telling them what they should do. Quit with this idea that we're entitled to anything at all. Enjoy what you have in the floor in front of you. It's the one every other brand is chasing.

This attitude is exactly what I referenced at the end of my last comment. "If you ask about any kind of potential updates and effects like better pitch shifting that many people are curious about, you're ungrateful and entitled". No, a lot people who ask these questions are not entitled. Some are just curious and are looking for insight. Stop finger pointing and making stupid assumptions about people on an online forum that you don't even know.

 

[Ericbr1]

I can enjoy my fractal and acknowledge that it's an incredible piece of gear and still ask if we'll be getting updated effects like better pitch shifting. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I wouldn't be miserable if we didn't get regular updates either and I'm not the type that buys a fractal product with an entitled attitude expecting a ton of free stuff or anything unrealistic. In an unrelated comment, I really wish the fractal community were better about this attitude.. "If you ask any kind of question about updates or future improvements, you're ungrateful because this thing is amazing bla bla fractal kissassery bla bla bla " as if we didn't already know that it was a great product.

The ONLY person/people you can validly ask that question to are Fractal themselves (Cliff and his associates) . If you pose it here on the forum, which of course it's been brought up on many other threads, you have people answering ranging from myself (Enjoy the thing and don't worry about it) to those who need a new Xmas present every week and they might use their ax8 1/2 hour a week. There are of course many others within that spectrum. . Only valid answer will come from Fractal though. Good luck

Eric

 

[BBN]

I guess FAS shot themselves in the foot so to speak because now new owners are expecting monthly updates just because that was how it worked in the past

It’s essentially a thinking of it being like amp of the month club where you buy it and are entitled to new free stuff

They could maybe add silly little updates saying it “fixes” a certain value, but when you’ve already got 200 plus amps and such it just becomes tough to probably find that much to add or improve month after month

How did they shoot themselves in the foot?
They lose nothing by leaving the AX8 as it is...forever.
Purchasing a Fractal product comes with the hope of updates, not a guarantee.
If people feel they 'deserve' updates, they can complain all they want and Fractal doesn't have to lift a finger.
Anyone who bought this product 'expecting' an update may have shot themselves in the foot.

 

[lqdsnddist]

Sometimes even if something is said to be end of line Cliff later figures out a way to keep adding things

The original mkII was said to no longer be able to get updates, it was out of space, so a lot of II owners were pretty unhappy, and xl owners were pretty glad they updated

Well about a month later Cliff redid everything and found a way to support the II for additional updates.

So no doesn’t always mean no, but there are also technical limitations and business ones.

Maybe the ax8 could technically have done III features, but if your in the business of wanting to sell III’s you don’t want to give away some of the incentive to buy one

All too often I think we tend to think of Cliff and FAS not as a business who designs products to make money, but as our guitar tech, his job isn’t to just keep working away to give us better tone, it’s to make a profit. He’s put a ton of effort into giving us free improvements which is awesome, and treats us all like rock stars, but sometimes I think he needs to draw a line and say if you want it, you need to pay for it buying a new unit.

 

[lqdsnddist]

How did they shoot themselves in the foot?
They lose nothing by leaving the AX8 as it is...forever.
Purchasing a Fractal product comes with the hope of updates, not a guarantee.
If people feel they 'deserve' updates, they can complain all they want and Fractal doesn't have to lift a finger.
Anyone who bought this product 'expecting' an update may have shot themselves in the foot.

You answered your own question there guy...

A lot of people think they are entitled to updates because they heard their FAS friends always saying how they’ve gotten so many in the past.

Well they buy a new one and think it’s going to be the same thing. Not per say a sense of entitlement, just that they thought it was free


If your friends all went to a new bar which gave out free wings for the first year and you finally went, you’d expect to get free wings too, right? Maybe it was just an opening promo and wasn’t meant to last, but you only thought you were going to get what they did..

As I said, they sort of metaphorically shot thenselves in the foot by being so awesome in the past that it can be viewed as what can be expected in the future. It’s not saying what they did was bad, it’s awesome, but it likely did create so unrealistic future expectations.

Hopefully I’m making my point clearer ?

 

[BBN]

I understand your metaphor, just don't agree that 'a foot has been shot'.

With your example, you have a customer at your bar asking for a promo that you once had.
That doesn't exist with FAS...there is no 'bar' or 'front desk'.
Dealing with people 'requesting' updates is very easy to manage by not logging into this forum.
I see no possible downside for FAS....that's all I'm saying.
There is no other bar down the street offering free wings. In fact the other bar's wings taste like crap and have a very harsh sizzle. And actually, you need to pay for their free wings (updates).

I'm just playing with you a bit here....we can agree to disagree.

 

[chris]

People will continue to ask this question, and it’s fine. I think this may be the 10th or so thread, and definitely many posts within other threads about it.

So be prepared to see more of this question, and also be prepared to not have any concrete answers yet. *thumbsup*

 

[Sonofiam]

Some are just curious and are looking for insight.

All one needs to do is open any of the general discussion forums, other than the Axe III, and see several threads asking the same thing. No one from Fractal has offered a definitive answer to any of these threads so asking again and again seems rather futile and pointless. If someone wants to see certain effects improved or added, there's a wish list.

Stop finger pointing and making stupid assumptions about people on an online forum that you don't even know.

Right back at ya man.

My reply was in response to a lot of the other comments, some saying the same type of thing in other threads not a direct reply to your post. No need to get personal.

 

[chris]

All one needs to do is open any of the general discussion forums, other than the Axe III, and see several threads asking the same thing. No one from Fractal has offered a definitive answer to any of these threads so asking again and again seems rather futile and pointless. If someone wants to see certain effects improved or added, there's a wish list.

good point. and while i agree that much of these questions are repeats from things even on the front page of each forum section, many people come this forum and immediately post without reading anything. not saying that necessarily happened here, but it's usually how it goes.

as i said in my previous post, i think we need patience from both sides. some people are on this forum often and could point out each thread and even post with the same question. some aren't, haven't looked, and perhaps think it's the first time it's being asked (again not saying that was this thread).

i'm trying to be better about this too, but when a duplicate question is asked, i usually copy and paste any link(s) to previous discussions. this helps in many ways - it shows that it's not a unique question, answers the question or provides information without retyping anything, and it can help to consolidate information rather than being strewn among many different threads.

if this forum was completely mine to moderate, i would immediately close every duplicate thread and link it to the first/main thread about the topic. i really want to do that honestly, but it's a lot of work, and not how this forum flow goes right now.

but yeah. new people who ask the repeat questions get irritated when they're told "this has been asked already" and forum regulars get irritated when they have to see and answer the question again

we're all excited. the info is here. try to read a bit before posting, and let's try to redirect by posting links to previous discussions when possible. of course, people who don't read first won't see this (and it's just in some thread), but yeah it's all good guys! we have Fractal Audio gear!!!