Wish Auto level adjust

Tplesko

Inspired
The biggest issue I have had with both my Axe II and my AX8 has been leveling the output volumes for my presets. I essentially stopped using a preset per song (I play in cover bands) because of this. And frankly it is not necessary to have a preset per song.

But with the AX8 and the CPU processing power it becomes more important to have more presets in a cover band setting.

I use about 13-15 presets - 8 are multipurpose (Plexi with gain stages, Ruby Rocket, clean acoustic, etc.). But I have some song-specific ones - Black Hole Sun, for instance, I use Fremen's 4 patches (which are excellent, BTW) which requires me to level out 4 presets for 1 song. That is the extreme example, but you get the point. I spend hours getting my levels right.

Furthermore, because of the FM effect you have to do this at full volume if you want it to be right. So my wife knows that the day before a gig the windows will be shaking! Currently, I play at stage volume in my room, staring at the levels on the small display, which do not give you values but just a visual benchmark, and using my ears and sometime an SPL. Another WISHLIST would be to put the levels inside of Axe Edit. That would save my neck some strain!

This pain could mostly go away if we had a feature - preferably that works in Axe Edit - where you could select presets and assign them (in bulk) to a global output volume level. Man would that be sweet.....

From what I understand none of the major competitors offer this. It really would be a wonderful feature and would shave hours off of my config time allowing me to play more with the AX8! Thanks for the consideration...

PS - I know there are a million factors - which guitar/PUPs are being used, are you changing geetars during a set, etc. What I am suggesting is simply a way to easily use the CPU and code to assign a level digitally. I know it wouldn't be perfect in every situation, but it would help. A lot.
 
You want to assign a block of presets to a single output level parameter? That would really complicate the preset leveling process.
 
Yes, well to a single output level. Help me understand why it would complicate it? Trying to level 15 presets to the same output is time consuming and imperfect. When you use 3 scenes per preset it's like leveling 45 preset. It has long been the most frustrating part of being an Axe owner for me; leveling the sound levels.
 
Only problem with this is not all tones are as audible as others at the same volume when in a mix. also lead boosts are used by many and these have to be louder or they are not boosted. leveling presets with the built in meters wile building a patch gets you close, then fine tune with increase, decrease at level playing with the band.
 
The problem comes when you try to define how loud a tone is without using your ears. You can define loudness as the average signal level, but a clean and a distorted tone, both at the same average level, will have very different perceived volumes. Even a clean sound by itself will have different volumes depending on how it's EQed and how you've mixed in effects.

Add in the band, and it becomes even more complicated. Depending on the instruments and the musicians, the perceived loudness of one guitar tone compared to another can be increased in the mix—or completely buried by it.

Then there's the fact that you don't want all your tones to have the same volume in the first place. For example, who wants their clean rhythm tone to have the same volume as their sizzling-hot lead tone? Even that clean tone by itself will need different volumes, depending on whether you're using it to add some arpeggiated color or to drive the song with a heavy strum.


No matter how you approach it, the musician needs to make those volume choices himself, one at a time, and that means individual human control over the level of every preset and scene. The built-in VU meters can get you in the ballpark—they're great for that—but if you trust a machine to tell you what you want to hear, you're in for a frustrating ride.
 
with the AxeII use global blocks....then once you find the level with VU meters and save it's saved for every preset you use that block in. even if you have to do a quick adjustment live its saved everywhere when you save it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rex
with the AxeII use global blocks....then once you find the level with VU meters and save it's saved for every preset you use that block in. even if you have to do a quick adjustment live its saved everywhere when you save it.
That works really well, as long as you use the same amp at the same settings across your presets, and you use similar effects in a similar layout.
 
If you are hooked up to the computer already try using the Orban Loudness meter and selecting the AxeFXII as the source. At least you won't have to lean down to read the levels on the front of the unit.

http://www.orban.com/meter/
 
I would think that the basic idea of a global volume would be theoretically possible to at least get you in the ballpark with getting all the preset levels basically the same. These units are a computer after all, not a real amp etc. Granted that the algorithm would be pretty complicated but it should work. Assuming it could be done then you could have an option to 'opt out' for your solo boosts etc. I would love this feature as well.
 
Last edited:
As a performer, I can't think why I'd want something automatically setting levels for me. The computer doesn't know or understand any of the reasons why I want a preset or scene at a particular volume, or what makes the relative balance of EQ pertinent to the final decision leading me to set a particular level. Performance, at least for me, has always been a highly interactive exercise - between myself and the musical composition, other musicians, and the audience. To that end, any kind of automated or willful imposition of limitations seems like a horrible idea. That said, I've used the output meter function as a starting point to balancing sound levels, but by no means has this ever been the final arbiter of output volume with respect to balancing patches.

I suppose the world is ever-changing, and that there are good reasons for one-size-fits-all types of leveling schemes. I'm glad I'm not part of any, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yek
Appreciate the feedback all, very helpful. I use a null filter block at the end of my chain with +3dB for lead boost, which works well. But going from an acoustic patch to clean to gain is always where I have struggled. No matter how much time I spend with my SPL meter and looking down at the utility meter on the Fractal I still cannot seem to get it perfect. I am close, but not perfect. And there always seems to be a scene or pedal that I somehow missed and when I engage it live it overpowers everything or is not heard. I am constantly tweaking my levels/volumes, which is why I posted this in the first place. I'd guess I spend about as much time on levels as everything else combined. I never have that issue with an amp, again which is why I suggested it in the first place. PS - not looking to go back to an amp, the upside on a Fractal far, far outranks my volume issues.

I did learn a new trick this week and I am excited about it. I love the scenes feature and often use the same amp in a patch. For instance for my Mesa rhythm tone I will set the gain to scene 1 controller and increase using Scenes 1, 2, and 3. Scene 3 will have a different delay and I will apply the Filter for some lead boost and it works well. This weekend I learned to also tie the Master Volume to Scene 2 controller which actually makes my problem far simpler to solve but only when using the same amp for a patch. I simply look at the scene controller while looking at my SPL meter and get both the gain stages (for scenes 1-3) and the MV using scene controller 2 all at the same time simply by clicking thru the scenes. This is a good discovery for me and maybe it will help others.

I love this thing and I loved my Axe 2. Levels still present a challenge to me and I have more than a few soundmen come to me and say, "your tone is amazing but you have me dancing around a lot on your levels". I'd guess others have heard that before, as well. I have learned to warn the sound guy that I have many tones and he may need to listen to my levels more than others.

Love this forum and the experience and citizenship here - a lot of people willing to help a guy out. Much appreciated,

-Todd
 
I just thought of another thing that may help me - could I use auto audition and/or a looper (inserted into all of my presets) to help me with the process? Again, just looking for tips or tricks on how to make leveling my volumes a simpler process. I use about 15 patches for both bands I am in. About 7-8 standard multi-purpose and 7-7 song-specific. Thanks all,
 
As long as you rely on meters for patch leveling, you'll keep spending a ton of effort, and you'll keep being frustrated. Meters can only get you in the ballpark. You have to rely on your ears to get good results. That's what your sound guy is doing when he keeps tweaking your fader at the gig.

Level your patches at gig volume. In the mix. With your ears. And yes, the Looper cab help.
 
Back
Top Bottom