AustinBuddy Tips: Setting up your AX8 in Mono, and AX8 Gain-Staging Document

austinbuddy

austinbuddy

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Hi everyone:

I created a quick reference document with steps on how to switch between Stereo mode and Mono mode in your AX8, and also a step-by-step summary of setting up your AX8 to gain stage out properly using Factory presets or my TonePack into a DAW or a digital mixer for live stage use.

Note: This ONLY applies to the AX8 - not an Axe-Fx or Axe-III.

These questions keep coming up including the Facebook users group, so wanted a good reference we could link to help anyone struggling to get set up properly.

Attaching a new .pdf file below with step-by step spelled out.

Also the link to the old Gain Staging and Preset Leveling video on this that goes more in depth.

Hope this helps. Not everyone may agree with this methodology, and that's fine. But it works for most I work with who record or play live with an AX8.

(BTW, I use my AX8 in mono mode mostly for gigs or jams, especially if another guitar player or keyboard player. But if power trio, I'll switch to a Stereo rig to fill out the sound).
 

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I don't understand why you recommend setting the output level to -10 dBV. Almost none of the digital mixers and DAWs you mention have -10 dBV rated inputs. They (almost) all have +4 dBu rated inputs.

From the manual
AX8out1levels.jpg

Otherwise, I agree with everything you write :)

May I be so bold as to link to my own video on this as well - - I think, it is in perfect agreement with yours. It just goes into some detail that you don't do (and leave out a bunch of stuff that you illustrate very well)
 
Thanks. Good video.

What I've found is the optimal "nominal output" setting can actually vary by Fractal Unit type.

My job is to get the internal digital signal (what you see on that VU meter) to be the same level as what leaves the XRL outputs on the back. I want them to be identical. So, I can record into a DAW and come out of monitors on stage at same time, same signal strength, with no risk of digital clipping.

And this is what I see today:

Axe III -- set nominal to +4dbv -- Out1 knob at noon = digital signal internally unity gain.
Here, the S/PDIF output signal level is tied NOT to the Volume knob. Output from factory presets and Tonepack presets averages -12db going into my DAW when set this way.

AX8 - set nominal to -10dbv -- Out1 knob at Max = digital signal internally unity gain. Here, unlike the Axe III and Axe-Fx, the S/PDIF output IS tied to the Volume knob - it lowers if you turn the knob down. Output from factory presets and Tonepack presets averages -12db going into my DAW. So it's different, and I want the digital signal level leaving the unit to match the XLR signal level as "optimal."

My Axe-Fx XL - no such "nominal out" software control in I/O section - Out1 knob at noon = digital signal internally unity gain. Like the Axe III, the S/PDIF output signal level is tied NOT to the Volume knob. Output from factory presets and Tonepack presets averages -12db going into my DAW.

Why there are differences, I cannot say.

For each unit, I put the XLR signal up against the S/PDIF signal, right next to each in my Universal Audio other to confirm these last year (when I did my video) and earlier this year with my Axe III. I was surprised at the Axe III default being +4bv compared to -10dbv on Ax8 to get same signal. That one comports to what you are saying Smittefar about +4bv as preferred.

It's different by unit. (I don't own a Mark II anymore so can't say for sure there...)

Some TonePack AX8 users -- especially Focusrite Scarlett preamp users -- complained that the defaults were blowing their signals out, UNTIL they switched to -10dbv nominal then everything behaved perfectly for both DAW and live use.

The bottom line? Use whatever works for you! If you never use a DAW with your AX8 or go into a digital mixer, then sure, go ahead and use +4dbv and max the Out1 knob (but you'll probably have to turn that Out1 Main knob back a lot, not max it). If you do use the S/DIF and set to +4dbv nominal output, then your Out1 knob at noon is roughly the same as -10dbv and rhe Out 1 cranked - the digital signal is same level either way.

So many users struggle with this, I'm just trying to get them guidance that may help their struggle. The Axe-Fx/AX8 should be seen as a PREAMP, not a POWER AMP. The tone does not change between -10dbv and +4bv setting, just the output level, and you don't want it to digitally overload a unit. So "it depends" really on what equipment is on the receiving end of the signal, and whether +4dbv is perfect or "too hot" -- it's not a Fractal thing, and that is why there is an option to choose either.

Now -- back to preset making! :)
 
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I only use my AX8 into a digital mixer and a DAW, and I always run Out1 maxed out with +4 dBu setting :D

In my video, I show (with the synth block), that if you look at the value in the AX8 VU meters, you get the same value in my DAW, when I go into a +4 dBu line input. And that is key, I think. You need to run into a line input.

Focusrite Audio Interface inputs actually add gain, even when set to line - Until you engage the PAD on the interface as well - I guess to some extent, that is the same as setting the AX8 output to -10 dBV.

I totally agree with your bottom line - Do whatever works, and never ever clip the input of the receiving device.
 
Wow - talk about a timely thread! Just the other day I watched @austinbuddy 's video where you say to max out the output which I hadn't been doing but what I found (at least I THINK what I found) was that all of the factory presets to my ears sounded much better with the output maxed. I'm not sure if that's the case or not - like if there is a technical reason why that would be, or if it's just my ears playing tricks on me - but I felt like some of the factory presets really sounded different - and much better.

And then I see this thread today that specifically mentions the Scarlett interface - because on mine with the output on the AX8 all the way up and the Scarlett set to line level and no gain - I was still clipping it bad.

Thanks for posting your video to @Smittefar - both are very helpful!
 
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Smittefar said:
I only use my AX8 into a digital mixer and a DAW, and I always run Out1 maxed out with +4 dBu setting :D

In my video, I show (with the synth block), that if you look at the value in the AX8 VU meters, you get the same value in my DAW, when I go into a +4 dBu line input. And that is key, I think. You need to run into a line input.

Focusrite Audio Interface inputs actually add gain, even when set to line - Until you engage the PAD on the interface as well - I guess to some extent, that is the same as setting the AX8 output to -10 dBV.

I totally agree with your bottom line - Do whatever works, and never ever clip the input of the receiving device.
Click to expand...

Thanks! The Focusrite users struggled and I suspected it was adding gain.

Yes - from what I tested and understand, the synth block will actually show less signal output than an amped Fractal guitar signal, something like reading -18db if using a sine wave at 1kHz constant tone. The synth sine wave “test tone” many techs use setting levels has no transients and less harmonic content than a guitar signal through amp model, which may show up at -12db not -18db, so be aware of the potential db reading difference between the two types of signals even with similar settings...
 
I only use the synth to make sure I have a perfectly constant signal level, so I can make a 1:1 comparison between the signal level in ax8 and in my DAW.

Maybe I should revisit this.
 
Brian Coonan said:
all of the factory presets to my ears sounded much better with the output maxed. I'm not sure if that's the case or not - like if there is a technical reason why that would be, or if it's just my ears playing tricks on me - but I felt like some of the factory presets really sounded different - and much better.
Click to expand...
I’m glad it sounded better, and do what works for you. But maxing the Output does not make things sound better on its own. Perhaps you were saturating the input of the next device which caused a tone change, or maybe it was in your head. Regardless it works for you.

I just want to dispel the notion that turning up all the way somehow makes the FAS gear sound better on its own. It does not.

If the AX8 and Axe gear was meant to have the Output knobs turned all the way up all the time, then it would not have an Output knob at all. That’s how the FX8 is designed - no Output knobs, which shows that they would have done that for the Axe gear too.

(To clarify, I’m not disagreeing with any methods provided above. I’m saying that turning the Output knobs up for no reason is not necessary or helpful.)
 
chris said:
If the AX8 and Axe gear was meant to have the Output knobs turned all the way up all the time, then it would not have an Output knob at all. That’s how the FX8 is designed - no Output knobs, which shows that they would have done that for the Axe gear too.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris - that was my exact thought when I was thinking it through - why have a knob if it just needs to be maxed out. Thanks for the reply. Peace!
 
boz52 said:
Maybe the master himself, Cliff, can settle this debate????
Click to expand...
there is no debate. there are different methods and all have their place as with anything else. Cliff's answer is in the User Manuals.

i think everyone agrees that we aren't turning the Output knobs all the way up "just because." but that's what many are doing. i get emailed at least once a week asking this question, average 3x a week. "i turned it up all the way and it's too loud, what do i do? i was told not to turn the knob down." that's generally what i'm asked.

if it's too loud and you've turned all the way up, turn down. it's a very simple solution. if you want to turn up all the way but it's too loud, then you haven't followed the instructions that influenced you to turn all the way up.

i'll be making some videos covering this very soon. again, the techniques described in this thread and elsewhere are great suggestions if you're in those situations. please just understand the goal of each approach.
 
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This is a god gift from the gods @austinbuddy !!! Just when I need it the most for sure! There are just two things that I want you to point out (sorry if it's on the video, I haven't checked it out yet):

1) how do you recomend setting the levels when going in to a loop in an actual tube amp? I want to test out some presets using amps and cabs of a friend with the AX8 and comparing both preamp tones (of course turning of the power amp simulation in the AX8).
2) The In PAD 18db setting do you leave that always like that no matter if you change from low output to high output pickups?

Again thanks for the guide and the video that I will carefully watch hopefully tomorow!
 
Chiguete said:
This is a god gift from the gods @austinbuddy !!! Just when I need it the most for sure! There are just two things that I want you to point out (sorry if it's on the video, I haven't checked it out yet):

1) how do you recomend setting the levels when going in to a loop in an actual tube amp? I want to test out some presets using amps and cabs of a friend with the AX8 and comparing both preamp tones (of course turning of the power amp simulation in the AX8).

2) The In PAD 18db setting do you leave that always like that no matter if you change from low output to high output pickups?
Click to expand...

1) I primarily use FRFRs and don't go by this approach, so would defer to others on the forum here with more experience doing that to reply. Tube power amps are not all created equal and can vary in sound. The main thing is making sure the AX8 level you send to the power tubes is neither too low or too hot.

2) I personally never touch that PAD setting, but I am not using active pickups inane guitars or basses. If you were using super hot active pickups for guitar or bass, you might want to check the pad and experiment lowering it.
 
Hi,

I have some more questions about your method @austinbuddy , do I need to set the ax8 to mono to make my patches levels at -12dB ?
Or in stereo (because I use my ax8 in stereo all the time), will I need to have 2 tracks for the left & right XLRs, each at -12dB in my DAW ?

I'm using my ax8 in stereo with the Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700 stereo power amp direct in my DAW for recordings.
For live, I go direct to the FOH with the XLRs out of the ax8, and I use the 1 and 2 jacks out to go to my stereo power amp, and then in 2 2x12 speakers for stage sound.

Thanks for your help !
 
— do I need to set the ax8 to mono to make my patches levels at -12dB ?

No. It works either way unless you have a major or hard pan that is louder on one side, the dial to that.

— will I need to have 2 tracks for the left & right XLRs, each at -12dB in my DAW ?

You mean one stereo pair of tracks? Yes. I actually level this way even when set to mono signal you get a signal from both L and R, it’s just the same signal.

— using my ax8 in stereo with the Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700 stereo power amp direct in my DAW for recordings.

Why do you need a power amp to then go into a DAW? The signal direct coming direct out of the AX8 is all you need to go into a DAW. Did you mean something different?

— For live, I go direct to the FOH with the XLRs out of the ax8, and I use the 1 and 2 jacks out to go to my stereo power amp, and then in 2 2x12 speakers for stage sound.

That should work fine. You can also fine tune the EQ using the Global EQ Out 1 and Out 2.

Hope that helps.
 
If you use the +4db nominal out setting in Audio page under I/O, then putting your Out 1 (Main) knob at about 11:30 gives you a signal out level that is near the same as using the -10dbv nominal
Out and maxing the Out - knob. It looks like the 10.x firmware also adjusts the SPDIF level somit is the same either way. Just something to know.
 
Thanks a lot for the quick answers !

About the levels, I suppose you're making them with your effects engaged ?

Until now I was recording with my fractal straight in my interface, but I was thinking about using my power amp (which has 2 speakers out and 2 XLRs out) to get some richness from it, a certain tone..

Thanks again !
 
Valère Coignet said:
Thanks a lot for the quick answers !

About the levels, I suppose you're making them with your effects engaged ?

Until now I was recording with my fractal straight in my interface, but I was thinking about using my power amp (which has 2 speakers out and 2 XLRs out) to get some richness from it, a certain tone..

Thanks again !
Click to expand...
The XLR Out of the power amp is probably not adding anything at all. A power amp doesn’t add richness. It allows speakers to produce sound.
 
That's right but, on this Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700, which is designed to be use with amp modelers, there's a 3 band EQ (which is really great live to make last minute tweaks), so I guess it has a tonal character..
 
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