Atomic Amps - "Coincident Linear Reference" Designed by Jay Mitchell

bkrodgers said:
This is why I'm really interested to see some shootouts between the RCF, the CLR, and the Matrix (plus any other cool new stuff). I'm seriously wondering if with the RCF, we've reached a point where improvements are hard to detect. They may well be there, and that doesn't mean we shouldn't want them if everything else is equal. But the RCF will have a weight advantage over the CLR, and for now it has an availability advantage.
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Another factor is a huge consideration - price. That, of course, remains to be seen.

Indications are that the price of the Matrix will be somewhere in the ballpark of the RCF price (off forum private pricing from Mike Pyle who cannot have his prices posted online (so let's please keep that trust so folks that do want to get these can do so as affordable here in the states as possible) here in the States. Where will the CLR end up? Where will the Matrix actually be?

To me the key to this is what the market will bear and what folks can afford. The prices for this end of the gear spectrum are substantial. Even the premium power amp/passive speaker guys are in this $1000 - $1500 USD range along with the higher-end entry level professional level powered monitor guys (which is where I personally place the RCF - it's entry level professional level gear based on pricepoint). IMHO - +$2500 and up is professional level gear for a powered monitor.

FRFR is getting very interesting.
 
Absolutely. And the less noticeable the sonic differences are, the more price, weight, and other non-sonic factors will be important. We could end up surprised though, with one clearly ending up sonically superior. I still have my doubts though that it will be such a wide gap that someone who has an RCF will be sorely disappointed.

At least that's what I'm hoping, as I'm about to order one. :)
 
Scott Peterson said:
Where will the CLR end up? Where will the Matrix actually be?


FRFR is getting very interesting.
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It's these unanswered questions that pushed me to the RCF (as well as the rave reviews etc.). Without more information as to firm release dates and pricing, I just didn't want to wait all summer. I've got some time off coming up and I wanted to spend a lot of it getting down FRFR style.

Still can't wait for the shootout however... very interested to hear how they compare... whenever that will be.
 
I too have been on the fence waiting on more info on the CLR or just ordering the RCF now. My biggest concern with the RCF is the 60X60 pattern. For those who gig with the RCF, how do you feel it performs on vs off axis in a live setting? Although it's in a different price point, I really wish EAW had a powered version of their MicroWedge 12. The high frequency driver uses the cone of the 12" woofer as the horn. I didn't have my AXE when I had a chance to demo them, but they sound great with the EAW processor.

 
Scott Peterson said:
IMHO - +$2500 and up is professional level gear for a powered monitor.

FRFR is getting very interesting.
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+1 that 2500US does seem like the "next" tier up.

RCF's TT wedges are in that upper tier (along with the QSC pro, Meyer, and EAW stuff mentioned before).

Interestingly enough, I don't believe there are coaxial designs in that upper tier?

Richard
 
bkrodgers said:
This is why I'm really interested to see some shootouts between the RCF, the CLR, and the Matrix (plus any other cool new stuff). I'm seriously wondering if with the RCF, we've reached a point where improvements are hard to detect. They may well be there, and that doesn't mean we shouldn't want them if everything else is equal. But the RCF will have a weight advantage over the CLR, and for now it has an availability advantage.
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I have the NX-10 but I had the fortune of trying the L-Acoustics 108P ($6K for the pair here) and it feels like if having kissed Pamela Anderson (yes, I´m getting old). You get used to what you got, but damn.

So, I am excited about the CLR.
 
North said:
I have the NX-10 but I had the fortune of trying the L-Acoustics 108P ($6K for the pair here) and it feels like if having kissed Pamela Anderson (yes, I´m getting old). You get used to what you got, but damn.
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Yep.... the 108P (and especially the 112P) are amazing powered boxes.
 
barhrecords said:
+1 that 2500US does seem like the "next" tier up.

RCF's TT wedges are in that upper tier (along with the QSC pro, Meyer, and EAW stuff mentioned before).

Interestingly enough, I don't believe there are coaxial designs in that upper tier?

Richard
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The RCF TT25SMA is a coaxial design, as are all of the Microwedges.
 
North said:
I have the NX-10 but I had the fortune of trying the L-Acoustics 108P ($6K for the pair here) and it feels like if having kissed Pamela Anderson (yes, I´m getting old). You get used to what you got, but damn.

So, I am excited about the CLR.
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The Pam Anderson analogy doesn't bring quite the same picture to mind that it used to. But I know what you meant. :)

I should have qualified my statement with "in the general price range." I didn't mean to suggest that the RCF is the best speaker ever made...just that I think it would be tough to make one that is leaps and bounds better but still in the same range. And whatever the CLR comes in at on price, you have to add $200-300 to compare it to the RCF. The RCF uses a neo magnet and the CLR doesn't. No real sound quality difference, but in theory RCF could produce a ~50 lb version for $200-300 less than they charge, just as Atomic could produce a ~36 lb version for $200-300 more. Even if you don't care about the weight, that should be in the equation (to a point) when comparing on price.
 
barhrecords said:
Interestingly enough, I don't believe there are coaxial designs in that upper tier?
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There is the d&b audioteknik stuff, that built around the B&C Co-axials.

d&b audiotechnik - M4.

thats the 15" one .. I have a feeling its way way expensive, someone mentioned a price to me, but it was nuts, so do your own research ;)


and the MAX12 here

d&b audiotechnik - MAX12.

I have a feeling these are around 3K GBP a pop .. which is less insane than the 15, but still expensive
 
barhrecords said:
+1 that 2500US does seem like the "next" tier up.

RCF's TT wedges are in that upper tier (along with the QSC pro, Meyer, and EAW stuff mentioned before).

Interestingly enough, I don't believe there are coaxial designs in that upper tier?

Richard
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The L-Acoustics 108P and 112P are both coaxial
 
North said:
I have the NX-10 but I had the fortune of trying the L-Acoustics 108P ($6K for the pair here) and it feels like if having kissed Pamela Anderson (yes, I´m getting old). You get used to what you got, but damn.

So, I am excited about the CLR.
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It will be interesting to hear what Jay says about the production version.

If they have the same audio quality as Frazier wedges, for between 1K - 2K US, that would be a great speaker.

Richard
 
It was the frustration of the "will be available in XX months" then no show that got me to go ahead and try the NX12SMA. Now I am grateful it did. The RCF sounds great and brings the Axe II to life in a way I had begun to think wasn't possible. It sounds like a great guitar tone and feels like it's coming from an amp. I am very happy with it. I am confident the Matrix and CLR will sound great, maybe as good (possibly slightly better, who knows). But the bird in the hand is definitely worth more than the two you can't seem to shake out of the bush. What makes the RCF preferable for me is I am making money gigging with it, right now.

To the earlier question about the 60 degree dispersion cone: it works out differently than the Atomic, where when you get off axis to the horn/cab, the highs drop dramatically. With the RCF, getting outside the "cone" results in less apparent volume, but the tone sounds pretty much the same. Obviously, getting way outside the dispersion range is going to change more dramatically, but what you would experience on a normal stage is as stated. Using JavaJunkie's 2 RCF approach and angling the speakers eliminates even that. I can't afford it yet, but when I can... boom! Where the 1 monitor setup might be a detriment is if you play in a band with a very loud stage volume. You would want more than one speaker there for sure, but then that is also true of a regular guitar cabinet. No one speaker is going to out-volume a Marshall stack on 11.

All that taken into account, I can't wait to see and hear the CLR. I know Jay isn't going to release it until it sounds awesome, so those who can wait for it likely won't be disappointed. Same with the Matrix powered unit. I don't expect there to be any monetary savings in it but the more great sounding options for Axe Fx players, the better.
 
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tgorycki said:
Does anyone else get the feeling there's a bit of a Mexican Standoff going on between Atomic and Matrix?
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LOL, had to look that one up. (Mexican standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Personally, I doubt it. I think both are simply running behind schedule, independently. I know Matrix already has posted somewhere that they're modifying the speaker design based on feedback they've gotten at the amp shows. I don't know what's delayed the Atomic, but generally companies don't delay product rollouts without a good reason. Selling stuff is good for business. :)
 
bkrodgers said:
LOL, had to look that one up. (Mexican standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
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I personally love the concept of the Canadian Standoff, where all parties are overly polite! I just found it strange that Matrix announced they were releasing pricing on passive and powered cabinets on 6/1 and here it's almost August. Just had a feeling they're waiting each other out to see how the other will price, initial reception, etc.
 
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