At Venue with Soundguy: What reactions have you had regarding stereo setup?

There is a difference as well with stuff like ping pong delays, sweeps from left to right (particularly hard L/R) and true stereo effects.

Where the things get tricky and do not typically work well is when the effect relies on creating a phantom center image. Stuff like phase reversal techniques and the Hass effect easily collapse in many live environments.

A ping pong delay will still work. You can be anywhere in a half decent room and generally determine which speaker a tone is coming out of and here there that is coming out of one then the other.

As has been said, check for mono compatibly. The biggest problem is not all venues are wired for stereo.
 
No matter if I am using my real Rectifiers or my Axe FX, I always go for mono. We are two guitar players I my band, that's enough stereo concerning the guitars. So for the Axe FX ist is XLR cable straight to the stage box, never had any problems, never heard any complaints from our sound crew.
 
Are any settings on the forum, both user contributed or factory, setup that they will not provide all effects in a mono situation? Does the AXE FX II send all of the programmed signal through the Left XLR output 1? Our FOH board is a stereo board, but I usually send a mono signal to simplify.
 
Are any settings on the forum, both user contributed or factory, setup that they will not provide all effects in a mono situation? Does the AXE FX II send all of the programmed signal through the Left XLR output 1? Our FOH board is a stereo board, but I usually send a mono signal to simplify.
There are definitely presets that are not sum-mono compatible. Also, there are presets that will sound thin with copy L to R, like the crossover preset.

As I said: make sure to check all the presets you use live for mono compat, no matter if user contributed or factory presets.
 
I had noticed that when I run through two QSC 10s the sound is much more full and rich, but I had contributed that to a "spaciality" or separation of the sound field, issue with the close proximity of the monitors. So your opinion is I am losing some of the processed signal by not running in stereo, or is this relegated to a "few" patches in your opinion?
 
Give it a go FOH if you get a chance. You may be suprised to find it actually works well in a live setting, particularly in small/compact venues. again it's a preference thing, but do keep an open mind. There are some closed minded and ignorant folk who maintain they know best. Going stereo to FOH is not asking for the audience to hear the effect of a Hi-Fi, but rather an effect in its own right. Keep in mind that with 2 or 3 way PA systems, the bass frequencies (sent to the bass bins) are often summed to mono anyway. I have used this 'stereo top/mono bass' method from time to time. The human ear can't pinpoint the source of bass, you kind of just hear and feel it, so it really is neither mono OR stereo. However you can judiciously mess with the upper frequencies. I have heard this done by the pro's too. It works particularly well with both guitars and drums.
I have been running PA's of various sizes for some 30 yrs, and most do not run in stereo - at least not from a "hi-fi" perspective. My current 3-way PA system qualifies as stereo - in that I can pan left and right and have separate left/right amps for the tops. Subs have been single channel - summed to "mono" thru the crossover and into the amp with the same signal going to left/right subs - for as long as I can remember.

I have not found that to be true in regards to ping pong delay. The sound doesn't just disappear, there are generally way to many reflections for that. I have done extensive listening in small and larger rooms with my setup. Stereo effects like phase reverse and enhancer will easily collapse and cause issues, but things like ping pong delay, flanges panning across the room, etc. have always been.

The mor you are it of the zone the less pronounced the effect but for me it has alway worked.

There is a difference as well with stuff like ping pong delays, sweeps from left to right (particularly hard L/R) and true stereo effects.

Where the things get tricky and do not typically work well is when the effect relies on creating a phantom center image. Stuff like phase reversal techniques and the Hass effect easily collapse in many live environments.

A ping pong delay will still work. You can be anywhere in a half decent room and generally determine which speaker a tone is coming out of and here there that is coming out of one then the other.

As has been said, check for mono compatibly. The biggest problem is not all venues are wired for stereo.
My original post on the topic that you were referring to Sean, was trying to simplify the issue for the average guitar player... It's generally easier to make a blanket statement to avoid "stereo" effects in your rig than to get into the technical details (as you have done) over what works and what doesn't. Thank you for that..

My point was that hi-fi like stereo is not a reality for live use. I have been beat to death by some on the pro sound forums over my naming it "dual mono". Most "stereo" venues I have seen are really dual mono - as in left and right channel + panning capability. All goes into a crossover with separate amps/powered speakers for left/right signals, it's technically stereo. But I've also seen where that signal out of the crossover goes into a single amp (INPUT) that has left out going to one speaker stack and right going to the other, making it very much mono. Mono is good (read simple) for PA's as both sides of the stack produce the exact same signal. Everyone hears the same thing.

In generic terms, all connections on the mixer are single channel (mono) and that includes all drum, guitar, bass and vox hookups. Keys are the standard exception with 2 channels used, but I've seen many "mono" connections to save on channel use. Each channel can be panned left/right. This does not make the PA stereo.. that depends on what happens on the stage end. Many mixers have single "main outs", many have Left and right. If your mixer has a single main out, you are running a MONO PA.. as that signal is summed internally to mono. If you have L/R outs you can send those signals back to the stage amps/powered speakers.

Here's where the mono/stereo can also happen, so you need to know how the system is configured. If you run powered speakers, you daisy-chain your tops and subs on each side. The built-in crossovers take over and you now have a dual mono (stereo) system. For systems that have separate crossovers (tho' I've seen some that don't have them at all) and power amps, you can end up with a dual mono (stereo) system or pure mono. For dual mono, you get L/R splits from the crossover with each powered by a separate channel of a power amp. You can pan any channel left/right of center. For a single guitar input, this puts your sound, left of right of center stage.

For mono, you have a single output going to an amp that produces the same signal from each channel. You can pan left and right, but it really has no effect.
 
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U2 ran their entire POPmart tour in mono and it was the best sounding PA I have ever heard. See the big orange ball hanging on the arch.

Since then I've thought stereo is pretty much unnecessary live.

elaborate-tours-u2-popmart-590x350.jpg
 
I agree about calling it dual mono vs. stereo.

The implication of stereo, to me, has always been about creating a phantom image somewhere between the left and right stacks. Creating a solid phantom image requires a very specialized speaker system designed specifically for the venue.

If you are playing a lot of gigs with a house system and short sound checks, you will most likely have to play some mono just because of channel count limitations. So in general, I think you should be prepared to play in mono no matter what.
 
I've seen several sound guys come and go and know several around town. I've always just made a point to befriend them, to let them know that I am flexable by asking them what they need from me before I ask anything from them. Nothing more than employing the universal law "treat others as you would like to be treated". I've found if you don't have your guard up, sound guys don't have any reason too have theirs up. It seems that a lot of sound guys I have had experience with have not so good preconceived notions about guitar players. I wonder why that is? If you make them your friend they'll do darn near anything for you.
 
As far I know the difference between stereo and dual mono is that in stereo the 2 channels always bleed into each other, you can't separate them completely. Dual mono is obvious.

I had to add that, since I have been reading here stuff like that: "Stereo for me means ..."
 
No matter if I am using my real Rectifiers or my Axe FX, I always go for mono. We are two guitar players I my band, that's enough stereo concerning the guitars. So for the Axe FX ist is XLR cable straight to the stage box, never had any problems, never heard any complaints from our sound crew.

Agreed! Two guitar players is stereo :) However, if i were to join another band as the only guitarist i'd consider running stereo for sure. It is heaven for your own ears though.
 
Before you discount stereo, go check out a My Morning Jacket Concert. Some of the cooler stereo guitar live sound around. Also Dream Theater and Dweezil Zappa come to mind.
 
...In generic terms, all connections on the mixer are single channel (mono) and that includes all drum, guitar, bass and vox hookups. Keys are the standard exception with 2 channels used...

If stereo doesn't matter, why does it for keys?

Why is there a difference between keys and guitar? If keys are allowed to have it, then why aren't guitars allowed to have it? Can't see the difference.
 
If stereo doesn't matter, why does it for keys?

Why is there a difference between keys and guitar? If keys are allowed to have it, then why aren't guitars allowed to have it? Can't see the difference.
Hear, hear! We guitarists are being discriminated against! Stringslingers unite! On the barricades!!! Anarchy in the USA! We demand the same treatment as the buttonpushers get! At the very least, since our instrument is a lot harder and more expressive and takes longer to get a good tone out of!


That said I usually run mono. sometimes dual mono. I think in all the ruckus of a live band the mono/stereo detail usually gets lost. Worse: I'm happy already if they can even hear me, let alone identify what I'm playing.


I've seen several sound guys come and go and know several around town. I've always just made a point to befriend them, to let them know that I am flexable by asking them what they need from me before I ask anything from them. Nothing more than employing the universal law "treat others as you would like to be treated". I've found if you don't have your guard up, sound guys don't have any reason too have theirs up. It seems that a lot of sound guys I have had experience with have not so good preconceived notions about guitar players. I wonder why that is? If you make them your friend they'll do darn near anything for you.
How to win friends and influence people. ;)
 
If stereo doesn't matter, why does it for keys?

Why is there a difference between keys and guitar? If keys are allowed to have it, then why aren't guitars allowed to have it? Can't see the difference.
LOL - point taken. Idk why, but it might be that keys are generally more full range than guitars??
However, I seldom run keys in stereo. When a keys player has 3 or 4 (or more) sets of keys, I'm going to take a mono out feed from each into the board.

FWIW - I have no problems with folks trying the stereo/dual mono approach live. I saying that based on my experience that it doesn't translate at all well for the average venue, since most devices are DI'ed or mic'ed mono to start with.
 
I run dual mono a lot and it sounds okay.

Just make sure if you are not running the FOH yourself that you can run mono or that your presets are okay for combining L+R in the FOH without phase issues (just in case they pan both of your channels tight).
 
I run dual mono a lot and it sounds okay.

Just make sure if you are not running the FOH yourself that you can run mono or that your presets are okay for combining L+R in the FOH without phase issues (just in case they pan both of your channels tight).
That's what I do mostly - for my own PA - which is a tri-amp'ed, 3-way system. It is important that guitar players do not assume that a new venue/provider will have what you want/need. Always advance the show if you can. As a soundguy for a local Festival for example, I will usually make contact with every band up front, and make sure I get stage plots, etc. for those that don't send me tech riders. That way I have everything they need when they hit the stage. Same goes for any other band I provide for.
At venues with their own sound system you are somewhat at their mercy. Largest house system I have played on was 40,000 watts!!
Little larger than mine :)
 
This stereo debate hinges on whether you're actually running stereo effects.... I'd agree with the naysayers if verything was 'wet', but usually people are in fact running it wet dry wet through two channels.

If you have your dry element equally in both channels, it appears in the middle for everyone regardless of where they are in the room. The most extreme position FOH is far left or right halfway down the room, so when your modulating effects are in stereo, they'll "only" hear that side of the modulations. (In fact they'll hear something of the other side as well depending how far back they are, plus if they're close enough to the stage, whatever you're doing about stereo in your backline.

Phase issues are a worry, but if everything else is in mono, that's probably OK...?

I use stereo as a special effect - at a small gig with only backline for the guitar, routing the modulating stereo signals out into the PA to widen it, while leaving the dry signal coming from the backline. I sometimes also bring two backline cabs and put one the other side of the drummer. The idea there is to keep the dry and left hand signal coming out of the cab beind me (I'm on the left) and just the right wet signal out of the other one for Intros, Solo's etc. I haven't yet got my head round proper WDW, as I've been trying to work out how to bring it out to the FOH. On the other hand, maybe it wouldn't matter... I'd appreciate any WDW practitioners' advice...

If using an FOH feed, at present I'm thinking of just widening the stereo panning for this 'stereo effect" - using Scenes.
 
How to win friends and influence people. ;)


Exactly! The funny thing is that our last sound engineer took a job in California and before he left he redid the avioms so I would always have stereo in my ears. Before that I only had stereo when I was the only guitar player.
 
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