Ares on XL+ ... mission possible or impossible!

Looks like underwear and nachos it is.

While we’re discussing AX8 futures, I’d like to suggest an update package of circuit boards as a option to replacing the whole unit. Form factor is already perfect for what it does for me. I have no idea if this is possible, but it would be a cool evolution of the unit if it is.
 
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Is Ares an actual thing beyond marketing?

Pardon my ignorance if I missed it, I saw the word mentioned a few times but no specifics.
 
Best news I've heard in a while!

This means the new Firmware is advancing....and that is all I ever want to see.

Everyone here needs to think about this like a computer purchase.
If you want to hang on to your Windows XP machine with a a Pentium 4 Processor, you are more than welcome to, and enjoy all the software of yesteryear. This is exactly the same.
But most of us don't do that, we buy new computers every once in while to be able to run the latest and greatest OS, Software, etc.

Thank you FAS for focusing on the future.
While I agree with embracing the spirit of improvement and advancement. Toanz != software. I don't find this to be a very good analogy in that sense. That said, the II is in a very good spot in terms of the toanz. Good enough to stand the test of time on its own, I would say.

TBH, I could've lived with the Ultra as a stopping point. They are sick, too. I have a couple of presets on my Ultra that are just so deeply tuned to what I like.

It wouldn't shock me if I jump on the III train quickly but that is because it is fun.
 
Is Ares an actual thing beyond marketing?

Pardon my ignorance if I missed it, I saw the word mentioned a few times but no specifics.
Ares for Axe FX 3 is like Quantum for Axe FX 2
Ares is more advanced than Quantum right now as there are probably some extra modelling thingies coded for it, though it's not clear what these are.

But even without the extras, the main difference between Ares and Quantum is that Ares is coded without cutting as many corners, because the more horse power of the Axe 3 allows that. Higher bit depth data is used, for example. Ares modelling is more detailed/precise.

From what I've read, Axe 2 and Axe 3 right now sound a bit different. Axe 3 sounds Clearer.
 
And I think it’s just easy to assume that the guys that bought the Axe Fx 2 three months ago want to have years and years worth of free firmware upgrades.

Obviously no one knows exactly what’s going to happen, all we can do is to guess with the facts at hand. The Ax8 is based on the Axe Fx 2, using the same type of CPU, and every single Ax8 firmware has been predated by a Axe Fx 2 firmware, where the updates from the Axe Fx 2 has been ported to the Ax8. There’s been many, many posts where us Ax8 users has been asking for usability improvements and we’ve seen exactly one Ax8 firmware that’s provided substantial usability improvements. Also, read between the lines in Cliffs post. Does that sound like a long term commitment to Axe Fx 2 and therefore the Ax8, or more like the last hurrah before it’s done?

Now, if you guess that the Ax8 is not near it’s end of life and we’re not going to see a new Ax8 soon, you are effectively guessing that the Axe Fx 2 is also going to see continuous improvements for years to come.

Or, you read that Cliffs post is more like the last hurrah. You read into the fact that we’ve seen very limited usability improvements that they are already working on a replacement. You imagine the development cost of keeping two platforms current for years vs the cost of developing an updated Ax8 based on Axe Fx 3 technology using the same type of CPU, the same type of screen, the same type of firmware (likely with similar limitations of Axe Fx 2 vs Ax8), the same type a foot controls as in the new FC12/FC6. Well - I guess that the Axe Fx2 and therefore the Ax8 is pretty much done and that we’ll see an updated Ax8 before the end of the year.

Also, for clarification. Not only do I guess that the Axe Fx 2 and therefore the Ax8 is pretty much done. I hope so as well. I think it’ll be much better long term if all focus from here on would go into making the Axe Fx 3 as good as it can be as fast as possible. Get us an updated Ax8 that uses the same type of CPU and firmware and we’ll all get much better units with a simplified, awesome lineup. I’ll by the updated Ax8 as soon as I can.

Now, obviously I’ll take any Ax8 updates with great joy and will install in minutes of release. I’ll also expect from now on that whenever a new firmware comes that this will be the very last one.

I'm not sure that I agree with the pessimism about future updates. Generally, updates consist of two kinds of "new" things; new models (mostly drive and amp) and new approaches to modeling. I can't see why we wouldn't expect any new amps modeled for the III to appear in the II. It's likely that the analysis and investigation is the bulk of the work, and that the actual models are represented in the firmware as data parameters.

My guess (as a software developer for the past 35 years or so) is that the platform differences between the II and the III aren't going to preclude incremental improvements to the modeling approach from being ported to the older models. Think of all of the times that Cliff has pushed out firmware updates that include new parameters, removed or combined parameters, or changed default values for parameters. Those are probably the "epiphanies" he's talking about, and there's a good chance that if he has them even while working Ares modeling that they'll applicable to Quantum.

Personally, given the amount of energy that Cliff has expended keeping the pre-XL firmware up to date with changes made for the XL in the past, I expect that we are going to continue to see firmware updates for at least the XL for years to come. The idea that Cliff's just going to abandon the old platform as soon as possible just doesn't reflect the way that he's acted in the past. I expect the opposite, that he's going to continue to go to extreme lengths to keep the older products viable for as long as possible.
 
The idea that Cliff's just going to abandon the old platform as soon as possible just doesn't reflect the way that he's acted in the past. I expect the opposite, that he's going to continue to go to extreme lengths to keep the older products viable for as long as possible.

By "acted in the past", I assume you mean updates to the Standard after the Ultra was released and updates to the Ultra after the II was released. If that's what you mean you may want to do some fact checking because those platforms didn't receive any or hardly any updates after the new product was released. Comparing the II to the II XL is not really the same as they share the same architecture so anything on the II XL can run on the II. So in that sense, I'm also expecting things to be how Cliff has acted in the past.

The thing that's different now compared to 2011 when the II was released is that we now have the Ax8 that is based on the II firmware where's back then there was only the rack units. Lets say that the updated Ax8 is 2 years away (my guess is that it's currently about 6 months away). I could see that they would keep the II firmware updates going until then as that would also make the Ax8 receive updates. But after there's been an updated Ax8 it would be very surprising to me if there would be any new firmwares to either of them. Also, the Ax8 has only received one real update in it's entire life cycle, i.e. there's only been one firmware update where there's been significant updates specifically for the Ax8 and not just updates to the II that's been added to the Ax8 so I'm thinking there's never been a plan to keep the Ax8 alive for long and an updated Ax8 is already in the works.

And obviously, all of this is just random speculations based on past behaviour and how things normally work. So I guess we'll see in a couple of years if the II is still receiving updates or if 2018 was the year the III replaced the II same as 2011 was the year the II replace the Ultra and we didn't see any further updates to the Ultra after that.
 
By "acted in the past", I assume you mean updates to the Standard after the Ultra was released and updates to the Ultra after the II was released. If that's what you mean you may want to do some fact checking because those platforms didn't receive any or hardly any updates after the new product was released. Comparing the II to the II XL is not really the same as they share the same architecture so anything on the II XL can run on the II. So in that sense, I'm also expecting things to be how Cliff has acted in the past.

The thing that's different now compared to 2011 when the II was released is that we now have the Ax8 that is based on the II firmware where's back then there was only the rack units. Lets say that the updated Ax8 is 2 years away (my guess is that it's currently about 6 months away). I could see that they would keep the II firmware updates going until then as that would also make the Ax8 receive updates. But after there's been an updated Ax8 it would be very surprising to me if there would be any new firmwares to either of them. Also, the Ax8 has only received one real update in it's entire life cycle, i.e. there's only been one firmware update where there's been significant updates specifically for the Ax8 and not just updates to the II that's been added to the Ax8 so I'm thinking there's never been a plan to keep the Ax8 alive for long and an updated Ax8 is already in the works.

And obviously, all of this is just random speculations based on past behaviour and how things normally work. So I guess we'll see in a couple of years if the II is still receiving updates or if 2018 was the year the III replaced the II same as 2011 was the year the II replace the Ultra and we didn't see any further updates to the Ultra after that.
The Ultra was EOL, which is why the Axe 2 was released. This is a different situation.
 
Personally, given the amount of energy that Cliff has expended keeping the pre-XL firmware up to date with changes made for the XL in the past, I expect that we are going to continue to see firmware updates for at least the XL for years to come.
There are two reasons why I think we might not see firmware updates for years to come:
1) Porting Ares stuff to Axe 2, I'd imagine, isn't that simple, as the programmer has to figure out how to cut the right corners to make it work on weaker hardware. That might be a challenge... At some point, the programmer may think it's not worth their effort and eating nachos while watching golf is a time better spent. There are more important things to do - Like, working on Axe 3. Not only is that the main focus Fractal has from now on, that's where, also, all the enthusiasm of the programmer will likely be in. Porting a chore. Creating is more fun.
2) Updating the firmware of old hardware is not economical for two reasons: There will be more Axe 3 units bought if Axe 2 updates stop. And doing firmware updates for Axe 2 takes work hours, which could go elsewhere.
If there will be updates for Axe 2, It would only be done out of niceness. While Fractal has been very nice, being nice in everything all the time is not a necessity.
 
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It's possible all that stands between Ares and the II might be enough PGA on TV, and the nacho supply in New Hampshire...

Were I betting, I'd put my money on the II not having seen it's last hurrah quite yet! There's still room to grow, albeit a bit more slowly.
 
The Ultra was EOL, which is why the Axe 2 was released. This is a different situation.

Yes, it's different in that we have the Ax8 now which is a current product, and the Ax8 is based on the Axe Fx 2 architecture. But at some point (and I'm guessing/hoping pretty soonish) we're going to have an Ax8 replacement based on the Axe Fx 3 architecture and I'm expecting the Axe Fx 2 and the Ax8 to be EOL then.

So far there's been on average 1 firmware release a month for the Axe Fx 2 (113 excluding beta releases since 2011:
http://archive.axefx.fr/AxeFX II/Firmwares/). It should be pretty obvious in the next few months as the Axe Fx 3 releases start coming through if these updates trickle down to the Axe Fx 2 and the Ax8 and if the Axe Fx 2/Ax8 gets an update for every 1, 2, 3, 4 or 10 releases for the Axe Fx 3 (or if Cliff prefers to each nachos on the weekend - fully deserved by the way :) ).
 
You can’t judge past firmware update regularity with future updates though.....

The II was breaking new ground in modeling with dynamics and “feel” no one experienced before. As it progressed the updates were less significant, essentially diminishing returns as the product became more and more polished.

There simply isn’t going to be 20 some major updates over the next 2 years just because there were over the past 2 years

Some people seem to think that it’s like a jelly of the month club, that Cliff “owes” them 3 new amp models a month for 3 years if they buy a product. It’s simply not the way it works

I think updates will happen with all the products but I don’t think anything is going to be like the ride we had over the past few years
 
I'm sticking to my guess of one final update that will have that 50 watt JMP and maybe some other amps. Maybe some tweaks to the modeling, but IMO, I think we are done with the II and Quantum, and I'm completely satisfied.
 
I'm sticking to my guess of one final update that will have that 50 watt JMP and maybe some other amps. Maybe some tweaks to the modeling, but IMO, I think we are done with the II and Quantum, and I'm completely satisfied.
I'd bet you're wrong since the Axe Fx III already had two additional models... I'd guess at the very least, those will get added.
 
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