Are there more delay lines hidden in the magic box?

Disconnector

Inspired
Hi all!

I'm working on rebuilding an effect from a PCM80 that's built on the glide>hall algorithm. It's basically built on 2 + 6 modulated delay lines plus reverb. The end effect is simply a mono flange into a stereo chorus with a nice delay - but the precise timing of the delay lines is crucial for the correct imagining and haas effect. I'm stoked with the tone from the PCM but frankly I don't want to have yet another box to deal with plus programming with the matrix UI on the PCM is a huge pain in the rear end.

Is there any way to access more than the 2 built in delay lines in the AxeFx? The multi-delay is awesome but its nothing like what I need - unless there's a way to reduce the tap count to 1. I'd happily trade the (to me!) useless mega-delay for 2 -4 more raw delay lines. Are there delays hiding in other effects that we can use?

I guess I've gotten spoiled by having so many amazing effects right at my fingertips that I've forgotten how awesome it is just just build up effects from primitives like delays, eqs, and LFOs. In the beginning that was the promise of the AxeFx right? You could build ANY effect from the tools in the toolbox. Maybe we've gone too far to the other side now and have all become consumers of canned effects rather than building our own from scratch. The PCM has opened my eyes to the power of programming at a much lower level - I just love my AxeFX and it's incredible sound and UI.

I'd love to be able to access the power of this crazy box at a lower level. I know that's more of a wish list item but maybe someone can help me find delays that are hidden in present effects?

Thanks!

Disconnector
 
are you asking if there are more than 2 Delay blocks?

Well I can count :) I only see two. Are there other delay line in other effects that we can use as well? For example - flange and chorus are just delay based effects. If you see the mix to 100% and the mod to zero you get a very short delay. II'm just struggling to control them in a useful way. I'm hoping that someone else has run into this same issue and has some tribal knowledge to impart.
 
The multi-delay is awesome but its nothing like what I need - unless there's a way to reduce the tap count to 1.

That's possible with some (maybe all) multidelay types by setting other tap levels/feedback to 0.

Is it possible two or more taps from one block could be used? Do you have any more details on the PCM80 effect, or a recording of it?
 
The Pitch block can be used as a delay.
And there IS a way to reduce multi-delay to something like a single line delay.
Can you find it, or do I have to spill the beans? :p
 
You're never gonna get an exact copy of the 6 delay lines in the pcm80/81 because they all have separate feedback, and delay times. You can also apply different modulation to the different parts of those separate delay lines. Best case is using two delay blocks so you get 2/6 lines. Then try using the multidelay with four delays and feeding that into a chorus/flange block/pitch block. Also, I think if you do two stereo delay blocks and pan them it may be like having four lines with separate feedback/time ratios(tape delay). And modulation on certain parts of the separate settings. To be honest some of those six voice lexicon delays get kind of whacky. There are definitely some cool applications but I think as long as you have 2 delays in stereo and another multi delay you should get real close. And panning too.
 
Last edited:
I still have a pcm70 that I love for ambient verbs. I don't like the axe for ambient verbs, but the axe is great for spring reverb and tight articulate soloing reverb. I mainly like using two multi delays and turning the level of the delay down and feeding it into another delay for ambient (fake Verb sounds). The preset octoplex is an awesome starting point. Very eventide h3000 sounding. I think it is like their swept reverb and dense room algorithims. I'd say just keep the pcm80 if you can't nail something 95% the same.
 
Last edited:
Also you have the Pre-Delay in the reverb block. Just turn all the reverb sizes and parameters down to minimums.
 
I think you can find some delay in the cab block as well


Delay
This is a "micro delay" for stereo applications. When running a Cab in Stereo mode, or when using two panned Cab blocks in parallel, delaying one side relative to the other can achieve interesting comb filter effects. A common practice in studio recording is to use multiple mics on a speaker at different distances to intentionally introduce comb filtering.

Fractal Audio:
"My secret to realistic cab sounds is Delay. Use two IRs in stereo or two cab blocks and put a small amount of delay on one (using the Delay parameter in the Cab block). I like around 0.06 ms. You may like more or less. Producers experiment with placing mics at different distances to enhance the recorded guitar tones. This is the same as using a small amount of delay. Adding a bit of delay introduces some comb filtering which creates notches and peaks in the response which, in turn, adds a sense of "space" to the tone. Try it." And: "If you have any cab packs try mixing the "Back" IR with one of the regular IRs. I use more delay when doing this, 0.1 ms or more. I lower the level on the back IR by a couple dB. This gives a nice "in the room" open-backed cab sound." source

GM Arts:
"This is about mixing 2 signals: one without delay, and the other with a very short delay. 0.06ms is way too short to be perceived as a repeat; the effect is filtering caused by mixing these two signals. To keep things simple, we’ll apply an equal mix of the same signal and another delayed by 0.06ms. An easy way to experiment with this in the Axe-FX is with a Flanger block, with depth and feedback set to zero, and mix set to 50%. Adjust the delay to 0.06ms (not 0.6ms) to hear the effect with a mono signal. This produces a notched frequency response with complete signal cancellation just above 8KHz, with the -3dB point one octave lower at just over 4KHz. The signal is restored over the next higher octave (8KHz to 16KHz), but bear in mind that most IRs will not have much response there anyway, so this effect is mostly a blocking filter over the range 4KHz to 8KHz. So if you have a cab IR that has some response over this range, it will be perceived as a loss of some treble response. For many, this will remove harshness in a way that’s difficult to achieve with other filters. Others may find this effect too much. You can soften this effect by decreasing the delay and/or changing the mix ratio. Decreasing the delay raises the frequency at which this cut occurs. For example, a 0.05ms delay blocks response over the octave 5kHz to 10kHz. Lowering the mix % decreases the depth of the notch. Similarly, applying a delay to a different IR than the un-delayed block will “jumble” and reduce the final response to some extent. If you increase the delay (typically from 1ms and above), you’ll hear the combing effects as multiple notches become low enough to hear in the range of “guitar frequencies”. This sounds like a flanger or chorus without modulation, which shouldn’t be a surprise given we’re experimenting with a Flanger block. So why does this delay sound produce a tone more amp-like? Most players prefer their amp tone off-axis, meaning that they’re avoiding the direct harsh sound directly in front of the speaker, where high-frequencies are beamed. This filter simulates that effect. It’s also similar to standing slightly off-axis when using multiple speakers. Sound travels at roughly one foot per millisecond, so there is a very short delay between sound from different transducers. As Cliff stated, it also emulates recording techniques with mics placed at different distances from the cab. How to calculate? To find the frequency where this rolls-off high frequencies at -3dB, it’s simply: Hz = 1000 / 4 /delay in ms. So for 0.06 ms: 1000 / 4 / 0.06 = 4167Hz. Complete cancellation occurs at double this frequency, 8333Hz, and builds back to -3dB a double this frequency again, 16666Hz. Bear in mind that with higher delays, there will be audible effects from additional notches above this calculated frequency." source
 
I was a beta tester for the PCM80. It has only a few algorithms, but they are super comprehensive.
My suggestion is digitally connect the PCM80 to the spdif outs and run it in parallel with the AxeFx into a basic line mixer or second input of a Atomic Clr if u have them.
Makes me wish I still had my PCM80. It was very inspiring. Outstanding reverse reverb too.
 
Last edited:
I still have a pcm70 that I love for ambient verbs. I don't like the axe for ambient verbs, but the axe is great for spring reverb and tight articulate soloing reverb. I mainly like using two multi delays and turning the level of the delay down and feeding it into another delay for ambient (fake Verb sounds). The preset octoplex is an awesome starting point. Very eventide h3000 sounding. I think it is like their swept reverb and dense room algorithims. I'd say just keep the pcm80 if you can't nail something 95% the same.
wow....what is it about the Axe you don't like for ambient verbs?
 
Back
Top Bottom