Arch top Jazz Tone

2

200man

Power User
Well...I spent a good deal of time kicking the fenders around playing the cab game and tone matching...got some good tones... But tonight I got real basic and discovered the tube pre.
No cab...no tone match
Tube pre->compressor->reverb
Used the optical 2 compressor sparingly...so far so good.
BTW, all the clean amps I've previewed so far seem too colored in most cases.
I didn't think this would be the case actually...
I started tone matching to further tweak..haven't found the right recording...yet...
But the tube pre is the only uncomplicated tone I've found in the box.
Willing to entertain other opinions, but I think this shortest wire between the jazz guitar and the daw is the best setup I've come across to date. And I think the compressor is doing its job adding a little bounce to the sound.
 
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For my acoustic instruments, I just do tonematch (a miked version against the pickup) -> tube pre -> PEQ (mostly to tame feedback). If the kind of archtop you have is really more of the acoustic archtop sound, then the tube pre would definitely be a strong choice. Depending on how acoustic you want it to be, you might try doing a tonemach with a mic on your guitar.
 
If you are looking for some cabinet ir's to really enhance your jazz archtop tone, I would humbly suggest trying out three of mine, depending upon the tone you are going for.

The first is the Lab Series L5 2X12 aka the LaVie 2X12, which has more of a dark, round Polytone vibe rather than the more aggressive mids of a Fender Twin: https://goo.gl/R55dTY

The second is actually the Ampeg Portaflex B-15 aka the Apflex 1X15, using the ir's with the tweeter turned off. Some Jazz players I've recorded over the years would record with a 1X15 to get a bigger, rounder tone that enhances the resonances in their archtops. You can find it at the same URL above.

Lastly, I would recommend the Hartke 1415 aka Alu15 found in the Dr Bonkers Silver and Black Vol.1 Collection on sale in the Fractal Cab packs section of this site. If you need to cut through a mix better, I used to have jazz guitarists who would record with my personal combo in real life. There was something very special about the big aluminum cone along with the dimensions of that cab that would give archtop players a defined sound.
 
Thanks folks! It's good to hear what others are doing here. So I see that the Tube Pre is being used by others for this, good to know!
I just found out tonight if you have a Hofner bass with flatwounds...the tube pre is a natural too.
I did a lot of preset testing today and everyone favored the tube pre in the recording.

I suppose picking up the IRs suggested is a good idea...I think I'll go for it. Thanks dr.bonkers for providing stuff bass and jazz guys can use. ;)
I just think we need more 4x12 cabs, I mean cowbell. ;)
 
Just the tube pre is a great way to go: The natural sound and nuances of the wood and the low output pickups can be hard to get through an amp and cabinet without losing somthing, particularly with flatwounds.

F022 or F018 cabinets pair well for a more traditional tone. With an Acoustic IR (Takamine) it has a natural unamplified tone.

One thing to consider is to mix the Tube Pre's output 30% to 50% in parallel with a cabinet rather than filtering the entire signal.

Love the Optical 2 in this use: It has something like the transformer focus of a vintage console pre.

Another option is to run an amp & cab in parallel (mix in at about 1/3 of the volume) with the Tube pre chain for a bit of the color & vibe. The Fender 6G4 Super with its Brown 2x12 might suit for a more old school tone, 5F8 Twin for more shimmer. Clean works excellent, and overdrive 'em a bit to sound like some of the Freddy Green records or Jump Blues. I have to set the input trim just right to match the guitar.

Can't go wrong with a JC120.

It may seem out of gamut; but I get great results with the Budda Twinmaster and an archtop.
 
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Very cool. I was comparing the tube pre to a deluxe reverb vib channel and a jbl d120 ir I bought somewhere.
I did one test in parallel. I think I had too much amp-cab....I kept gravitating back to simple though.
I think I need to get both working independently first and have them both be standalone and then see what blending might offer.
The possibilities are high aren't they? ;)
I lose it when I try to preview 8 million speaker cabs knowing full well there is tweaking for each potential combination that plays
out in the motor drive, resonant freq, etc. That makes it hard doesn't it? I mean my ears shut down after shuffling thru cabs and I forgot how to quickly preview cabs off the computer hard disk using axe-edit...if anyone remembers.

Thanks for the tips all!
 
dr bonkers said:
If you are looking for some cabinet ir's to really enhance your jazz archtop tone, I would humbly suggest trying out three of mine, depending upon the tone you are going for.

The first is the Lab Series L5 2X12 aka the LaVie 2X12, which has more of a dark, round Polytone vibe rather than the more aggressive mids of a Fender Twin: https://goo.gl/R55dTY
Click to expand...

Why don't you recommend the "Poly"?
 
StickMan said:
Why don't you recommend the "Poly"?
Click to expand...
I recommend the Poly.

I was saying the Lab Series is more similar to an L5 than the aggressive mids of a Fender Twin. Sorry if the post was not clear or confusing.

Since that post about the Lab Series L5, I saw so much interest in jazz tone options, I was able to track down and capture a Polytone.

If you want a sample of if the Lab Series L5 will work for you, you can find a freebie here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/free-preset-ir-bundle-gift-in-celebration-of-fw-q8-01.127153/.
 
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IMO
The Double Verb Vib is the best sounding amp sim in the Axe for straight ahead jazz playing.
Just lower the Input Trim to .500 and turn off the bright switch.
It pairs well with lots of IRs, but I use an OH EVM-12L IR since I need it to match my pwr amp + cabs rig in which I use 12Ls.

But I've been using that sim for a long time now and haven't fully checked out many of the other newer sim options which may be even better.
Back in the day the Tube Pre and the JC120 sims never seemed to do it for me.

If I was really trying to do the Polytone/ or Clarus+Raezor's Edge type of SS sound I wouldn't use an amp sim at all, just a GEQ or a PEQ to shape the tone going into a SS power amp + cabs rig or into the Cab Block with a fairly flat speaker IR like that of a 12L for FRFR.
 
My own jazz arch top tone quest in the Axe began with the Tube Pre sim.
At some point, I realized that a heavily tweaked Deluxe Reverb sim produced better results for me… Which wasn't surprising, since the 6V6 sound had always been my favorite sound, using real amps.
However, I'm now gravitating towards preferring the Carr Rambler sim, except substituting 6V6 as the preamp tube. The tone I'm now getting reminds me a lot of my Tone King Continental, which is actually a wonderful jazz guitar amp, IMO.
BTW- I definitely prefer the input trim lowered for jazz tone, as others have posted.
 
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