Approaches to Delay Modulation

E

eric_

Member
I'm become really fascinated by delay modulation over the last while. Whether it's as a really obvious effect or something that's so subtle you barely notice it. I'm curious how you approach your delay modulation (or even just plain modulation if you're not into delays as much). I'm particularly interested in different frequency rate and depths combinations (especially since you can run multiple LFOs in the Axe FX, as well as motor speed for tape delays) as well as the use of the internal controllers. Whether this is to mimic tape wow/flutter, the modulation of a particular pedal/effects unit, or something totally original.

Lately my approach has mainly centered around using controllers to randomly modulate both the rate and depth of one of the delay LFOs. Normally this starts out sounding crazy and I then restrict the min/max or use dampening to smooth things out and make it more subtle. Waveform types also make a massive difference. I've also used this approach with the random wave shape to roughly approximate the random modulation of the Fairfield Meet Maude. I just know there is so much more I can do so was curious to see what you all are doing to see if you can kick-start some other ideas...
 
When I do use delay modulation I go for a low mix and a fairly low rate. I like the ebb and flow vibe of those settings. I havent experimented much past that as yet.
 
Good thread. I need to dig into it more. I love it running stereo for width and thickening the overall texture, but I dislike the same patches when collapsed to mono as it comes off as too chorus-y or flanged. I would imagine that some of that could be addressed with careful use of controllers as opposed to the built in modulators.
 
It's a nice thing to be fascinated by, and very near to the core of time effect creativity.
You can be artsy about this and just follow your instincts or chase fun, or you can study it in a very structured way.
The latter approach can serve the former.

Here are some angles to think about

Periodic vs Complex Periodic vs Non-Periodic (manual, random)
SImple vs. Compound vs. Complex mod waveforms
Magic Quadrant of fast/slow/shallow/deep
Synchronized (with respect to delay time) vs Non-Synchronized rates
(and additive/subtractive depth effects, where feedback increases/decreases the modulation effect)
Mono vs Stereo (Mod LFO Phase offset vs. different left and right modulators)

Of course you can then combine all of the above with different feedback structures, phase inversion, etc.

With the Axe-Fx you also have the possibility of multiple modulation delays in series.

It's a vast veritable wild continent of sonic freedom.

Post some clips!
 
Last edited:
A modest modulation delay goes a long way.

This short typical M@ Xanadue-esque noodle features the Axe-Fx III Tweed Deluxe model. The preset also has a drive, a modulated delay, and a compressor (Look ma, no modifiers). You'll also hear one bass note played on the Diva synthesizer.

 
Admin M@ said:
A modest modulation delay goes a long way.

This short typical M@ Xanadue-esque noodle features the Axe-Fx III Tweed Deluxe model. The preset also has a drive, a modulated delay, and a compressor (Look ma, no modifiers). You'll also hear one bass note played on the Diva synthesizer.

Click to expand...

I dig this a lot. Very cool stuff
 
a clean sound with a modulated stereo delay is a thing of beauty. also try detuned delay as an alternative, like the old eventide h3000 - use the dual chromatic shifter, set the delay time of both voices to something like 500ms, pan them hard left and right, detune +5 one side and -5 the other side and turn up the feedback to about 40%. lovely!
 
Admin M@ said:
A modest modulation delay goes a long way.

This short typical M@ Xanadue-esque noodle features the Axe-Fx III Tweed Deluxe model. The preset also has a drive, a modulated delay, and a compressor (Look ma, no modifiers). You'll also hear one bass note played on the Diva synthesizer.

Click to expand...

Brilliant. There is another thread going on right now about FX packs, and this is an example of something that I would gladly purchase!
 
Let's look at how delay modulation adds and subtracts with itself as the relationship between DELAY TIME and MOD RATE changes.

First, set up. (These instructions are good for Axe-Fx III or FM3.)

Choose a tone you like.
Turn off all effects.
Add a single delay block after the cab.
Reset the delay's channel.
Set Type to Digital Stereo.
Set Mod LFO 1 Phase to 0.
Set tempo to 1/4.
Set mix moderately high (37%)
Set feedback moderately high (50%)
Listen to a few short chords. Notice the feedback length.
Listen to a few sustained chords. Let them really ring.

Let's try simple addition:

Set LFO 1 (Mod) Tempo to 1/8.
Set LFO 1 Depth Tempo to 100%.
Listen to a few short chords. Notice the variation of pitch increasing steadily as the tail continues.
This is because the modulated signal remains aligned with the LFO period as it passes through successively.
I think of this as progressive modulation, because the changes in pitch deepen as they go.
Play some long sustained chords. Notice how the modulation "develops" over time.
This can be a bit sci-fi at extremes but it has great musical applications, some very subtle as you reduce depth or feedback.

Let's try a controlled aliasing effect, which both progresses and regresses in a cycle:

Change LFO 1 (Mod) Tempo to 1/8 dot.
Listen to a few short chords. Notice that the variation of pitch is self-controlled rather than progressive.
Play a chord lasting 1/4 note.
Play some long sustained chords. Notice how the modulation feels over time.
The modulated signal variably reinforces and cancels the LFO as it passes through successively.
I think of this as aliasing modulation, because the changes in pitch progress and regress in a cycle.

See if you can answer this question:

Categorically speaking, which ratios of delay time to LFO period produce which type of modulation effects? (I'll share my answer if anyone cares to try these examples).

Try this one:

Set Feedback to 90%.
Set LFO1 Tempo to 5/64.
Listen to a short chords. What do you notice? Make sure to stick around until the longer tail dies out ;-)
It's still aliasing but the cycle is quite long.

Let's apply this same idea in a different way.
Set LFO 1 Tempo to 1/8. Notice that at 120 BPM, this corresponds to a rate of 4.00 Hz.
Turn LFO1 Tempo to NONE and MANUALLY set the rate to 4.00 Hz.
Play a chord lasting 1/4 note. Sci fi, as expected.
Now manually increase the rate to 4.10 Hz -- just a bit faster, that is.
Listen as the Sci-fi comes and goes in another long cycle.

The length of the cycle changes as you push or pull the LFO rate with respect to the delay time. The longest cycles are those which are closest to the "progressive" settings.

Explore these ideas on your own and see what you come up with. What do you like? What do you dislike?

Where else can you take this? (Fun tip: the MULTI-TAP delay has a MASTER LFO RATE control.

@eric_
 
Last edited:
Admin M@ said:
Let's look at how delay modulation adds and subtracts with itself as the relationship between DELAY TIME and MOD RATE changes.

First, set up. (These instructions are good for Axe-Fx III or FM3.)

Choose a tone you like.
Turn off all effects.
Add a single delay block after the cab.
Reset the delay's channel.
Set Type to Digital Stereo.
Set Mod LFO 1 Phase to 0.
Set tempo to 1/4.
Set mix moderately high (37%)
Set feedback moderately high (50%)
Listen to a few short chords. Notice the feedback length.
Listen to a few sustained chords. Let them really ring.

Let's try simple addition:

Set LFO 1 (Mod) Tempo to 1/8.
Set LFO 1 Depth Tempo to 100%.
Listen to a few short chords. Notice the variation of pitch increasing steadily as the tail continues.
This is because the modulated signal remains aligned with the LFO period as it passes through successively.
I think of this as progressive modulation, because the changes in pitch deepen as they go.
Play some long sustained chords. Notice how the modulation "develops" over time.
This can be a bit sci-fi at extremes but it has great musical applications, some very subtle as you reduce depth or feedback.

Let's try a controlled aliasing effect, which does not progress, but cycles instead:

Change LFO 1 (Mod) Tempo to 1/8 dot.
Listen to a few short chords. Notice that the variation of pitch is self-controlled rather than progressive.
Play a chord lasting 1/4 note.
Play some long sustained chords. Notice how the modulation feels over time.
The modulated signal variably reinforces and cancels the LFO as it passes through successively.
I think of this as aliasing modulation, because the changes in pitch progress and regress in a cycle.

See if you can answer this question:

Categorically speaking, which ratios of delay time to LFO period produce which type of modulation effects? (I'll share my answer if anyone cares to try these examples).

Try this one:

Set Feedback to 90%.
Set LFO1 Tempo to 5/64.
Listen to a short chords. What do you notice? Make sure to stick around until the longer tail dies out ;-)
It's still aliasing but the cycle is quite long.

Let's apply this same idea in a different way.
Set LFO 1 Tempo to 1/8. Notice that at 120 BPM, this corresponds to a rate of 4.00 Hz.
Turn LFO1 Tempo to NONE and MANUALLY set the rate to 4.00 Hz.
Play a chord lasting 1/4 note. Sci fi, as expected.
Now manually increase the rate to 4.10 Hz -- just a bit faster, that is.
Listen as the Sci-fi comes and goes in another long cycle.

The length of the cycle changes as you push or pull the LFO rate with respect to the delay time. The longest cycles are those which are closest to the "progressive" settings.

Explore these ideas on your own and see what you come up with. What do you like? What do you dislike?

Where else can you take this? (Fun tip: the MULTI-TAP delay has a MASTER LFO RATE control.

@eric_
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was looking for. Haven't had a chance to try these out yet but will do very soon and will report back. Thanks for going to the trouble
 
Last edited:
Bonus one for fun: Given a delay time of 1/4 note (120 BPM = 500 ms) what rate(s) might you set modulation to if you wanted an effect that was more or less consistent -- without obvious progression or cycling given feedback?
 
Admin M@ said:
@eric_ @Wired any fun? Should I stop?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately haven't had a chance yet but definitely planning on spending an hour or two messing around with this when I can. By all means send on more ideas! Also, sort of separate but anything on interesting approaches to delay EQ would be great also!
 
Love this topic!

I'm the oddball still using an analog pedalboard into the Axe III, but modulated delay has been at the core of "my sound" (whatever that is) for the last 8 years or so.

It's so important to me that I've gone through a number of analog delays - DMM XO x2; Tonal Recall; Tonal Recall RKM (2nd favorite); JHS Panther; DMM 1100-TT; and finally ending the search with a DMM "Tap Tempo" (the MN3005 1st release).

My two favorite ways to run the DMM Tap Tempo:
1. Dotted 8th subdivision into a stereo digital delay either doing dotted 8th or some other subdivision
2. As a low mix, near infinite feedback, fast delay (50ms - 100ms)... kind of as a reverb-y, modulated wash under the dry signal

@Admin M@ Great stuff, like an education in LFO's! I'll be trying this stuff tonight!
 
I use a simple approach with typically dotted eight delays, feedback (0-20%) and mix (20-50%) according to the song, LFO 1 modulation set to 4.5000 HZ with depth at 30% - as a rule of thumb. Love the sound. And love the topic too.
 
Admin M@ said:
@eric_ @Wired any fun? Should I stop?
Click to expand...
I had a good time working through your examples, and tend to enjoy the less sci-fi results. It is really fun to hear the movement and cycle of the pitch. I learned that I prefer a mod rate tempo with an odd number of 64ths. 7/64, for example, is great.

Here is a preset based on the examples.
http://axechange.fractalaudio.com/detail.php?preset=8698
Scene 7 sounds a bit like how I set the modulation on my old rack delays.
Scene 8 is some fun with the Multi-Tap. Things can get pretty out of hand if you mess with modifiers on the Master LFO Rate!

Should you stop? Heck no!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom