AotW 6: Recto (Orange and Red) Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier

Fabio KTG

Fabio KTG

Fractal Fanatic
This has to be my favourite amp for high gain rhythm tones of all time. I've owned at least half a dozen Boogies over the years, from Dual and Triple Rectifiers, to the first Roadking in the UK, Tremoverbs, Rectoverbs, Triaxis, 2:90 a MkIV, Mk V and a Rocket 50.

AFAIK, Most if not all Boogies use cascading gain in their preamp section. To give you a visual aid, think of a champagne glass tower.... The preamp sectioned is all wired in series, one tube "cascades" gain into the next tube. Perhaps Cliff could interpolate on the subject.

Boogies are synonymous with all genres of music. From country to modern metal and everything in-between. As a manufacturer, with the exception to Marshall, I can't think of any other amp maker who has sculpted the face of music as much as Randall Smith.

Anyone who plays metal and is yet to become friends with the Recto models, needs to kick themselves.

mesa-boogie-dual-rectifier-review-630-80.jpg


Amp: all models - Axe-Fx II Wiki

Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier Vacuum Tube Amplifiers

Here's the much respected Ola Englund demoing the unit in a mix context.



Personally, I'm really digging the Recto Red Modern coupled with the new High Gain Essentials Mesa EN V30's cab from Own Hammer. If you're yet to invest in the HGE pack, GO DO IT NOW!!!

Let the comments commence! I shall post some of my presets, later next week.
 
I've never played through a real recto, but I've never been able to find a sound I like with a modeled recto in any product I've tried. It's just something of the character of the amp doesn't play well with my personal style I guess.
 
A lot of my favorite sounds on records have been recto sounds but I can't for the life of me begin to approach how to dial them in on the AXE-FX, though I got the new ownhammer packs so maybe that will go some ways :) I'm looking forward to hearing you guys thoughts on this.
 
It's weird! I must be the only metal guy who never got rectos! I played them in shops (albeit not at high volume, which I think is the missing piece of the puzzle) and in other environments and always found Marshalls and Diezels to be preferable. Please don't shoot me! ;)

However, with these new opportunities in FW14, I'm dying to try them out again. I also think that the missing part for me in the Axe was the IR. I'm very interested in the new OH offerings.
 
I love rectos
had a black face 2 channel (that like an idiot sold ) and a rectoverb.
you've got to be able to turn it up or you'll never 'get it".
I've been able to get some good patches set up with the axe models without too much difficulty
 
Nice, does anybody have any tips? I'm curious to hear how it sounds with the new OH ir's.
 
like everything a tone is personal taste and many factors including guitar, pickup, YOU, etc go in to making up the right tone. but for high gain recto sounds in real life and through the axe fx its essential IMO to use a tube screamer. for me its gain on 9 o'clock and level at 12 o'clock. as far as the amp, still needs lots of gain, maybe 3 o'clockish. i also switch the power tubes to either EL34s or KT88s. and it seems to need a good amount of low end and depth. also i personally think it sounds better with the master low. maybe on like 2? 2.5? highs and mids to taste. for cabs i personally like the Petrucci Mix and also the mesa with v30s.

hopefully that gets you pretty close to what you want without me actually knowing at all what you are into haha.
 
I've gotten some great tones out of the Rectos but NOT high gain tones. Either I don't get high gain(which could be), or I just don't like it. Sounds more like harsh gain? To me, high gain only sounds good as rhythm, not soloing. And thanks Fabio, for putting these threads together. They are a good education for me. Oh, and I have some of the newest OH cabs and I think these are the only ones I don't like of the OH's as I have Cab Pack 3 which is terrific!
 
H3O2 said:
I've gotten some great tones out of the Rectos but NOT high gain tones. Either I don't get high gain(which could be), or I just don't like it. Sounds more like harsh gain? To me, high gain only sounds good as rhythm, not soloing. And thanks Fabio, for putting these threads together. They are a good education for me. Oh, and I have some of the newest OH cabs and I think these are the only ones I don't like of the OH's as I have Cab Pack 3 which is terrific!
Click to expand...

Which cabs in the new HGE pack have you tried? I think that they nail my old Mesa 412 cab. Could you post your preset and let me take a look? I'll post my preset in the morning, when I get into the other room to the iMac. I don't use any gain with drive pedals, I use the saturation button and little gain on input drive. I usually have the 4th EQ band (2200Hz?) up higher than the 6000Hz. I saw Mark Morton do this in a video and it seems to work well for me.
 
I've actually started using a filter block up front in conjunction with turning on the Saturation switch in place of using a TS in front.
 
I'm no expert, so don't take any of this as gospel, I'm just sharing my impressions and approach to using these models (specifically the Recto2 Red). YMMV, etc, etc. For info, I use EMG (81/60 or 81/85) loaded Les Paul's or ESP Eclipses, generally in Drop-D or standard tuning.

I'm a great fan of these amps having owned a 2010 Multiwatt Dual Rec for the last 4 years, and played/gigged with it regularly. IME the modelled Recto2 does not exactly mimic (pun intended) my amp - which is understandable as the Recto2 is based on an earlier 3 channel model and, I believe, there were significant changes to the Presence circuit between the older 3 channel and the 2010 "reborn" (multiwatt) version. However, we're talking very minor stuff here. If you don't like the Axe versions, chances are you wouldn't like the real amp (or vice versa). YMMV

I noticed some important changes with FW14 and I had to tweak my older presets to align them with the newer firmware. Here's what the FW14 Release Notes say:

Improved Recto models tone stack accuracy. The Recto models now use an exact digital replica of the unique tone control network used in those amps. Furthermore the Presence control now operates like the actual amp in all models (i.e. for those models where there is no negative feedback the Presence control is actually part of the tone stack). NOTE 1: The model may need to be reset by deselecting and reselecting the type in order to load the updated parameters. NOTE 2: If the power amp modeling is defeated the Presence control usually operates as a shelving filter with noon being neutral. For the Recto models where the Presence control is part of the tone stack this will not be the case. The Presence control will continue to act as it does when the power amp modeling is active since it is part of the preamp.
Due to the above, all Recto1 and Recto2 models have been re-MIMIC’d.


Post FW14, I find the Recto2 Red to be overly dark on default Presence settings, so I increase these from default (but beware of the F-M effect if dialling in at low volume). I'll post a preset later this week, but here are the kind of settings I use for Recto2 Red:

Drive: 5.0 to 6.0
Bass: 4.0 to 5.0
Mids: 4.5 or so. Interestingly, I notice that I need the Mids higher on the Axe in comparison with my actual amp. This could be a side-effect of using FRFR, plus my choice of IR.
Treble: 5.0
Master: 2.5 (default) I prefer to leave this on default as harshness and flubbiness seems to come in with higher settings. On my real amp, I never need to run the master at greater than 10:00 (o'clock).
Presence: 3.0 - 5.0 depending on the IR.
Dyn Depth: I've tried experimenting with very minor increases to this.

Personally, I don't like the Sat switch on this model and always leave it off.

Generally speaking, with FRFR, I find I have too much bass and I tend to use the Amp Block GEQ to cut the two lowest bands (using the 8-band).

For IRs, I'm currently using forumite guitarone's Mesa mix or the OH Live U/Res included with FW14. I've just bought the OH High Gain Essentials pack but haven't yet had a chance to try these out. I also quite like the Axe's stock OH cabs (43 and 44) mixed in stereo.

For lead sounds, I find Recto2 Red tends to sound way too thin and I've yet to find a Recto Org sound that doesn't sound too nasally (to my ears), which is pretty much the same story for me with the real amp. Therefore, I tend to use Recto2 Red with a variation to the approach I use with my actual amp: BB Preamp in front of amp (0 gain, treble and bass rolled down to boost the mids, level to taste to give a bit more preamp distortion), with Amp Block Level adjusted to give me the extra dBs I need. I'm still not entirely satisfied with the lead sounds and need to experiment more with tweaking the EQ to fatten up the lower mids, either with the Fat switch or the GEQ. (So many ways to skin this one... lol)

Final tip to experiment with, which some people swear by on the real amp: Mids on 10, Treble on 0. Try it and see what you think.
 
If using a Recto2 model try switching the tonestack to Recto1 version. This gives you less flub yet has more crunch from the more modern amp.
 
adew said:
I'm no expert, so don't take any of this as gospel, I'm just sharing my impressions and approach to using these models (specifically the Recto2 Red). YMMV, etc, etc. For info, I use EMG (81/60 or 81/85) loaded Les Paul's or ESP Eclipses, generally in Drop-D or standard tuning.

I'm a great fan of these amps having owned a 2010 Multiwatt Dual Rec for the last 4 years, and played/gigged with it regularly. IME the modelled Recto2 does not exactly mimic (pun intended) my amp - which is understandable as the Recto2 is based on an earlier 3 channel model and, I believe, there were significant changes to the Presence circuit between the older 3 channel and the 2010 "reborn" (multiwatt) version. However, we're talking very minor stuff here. If you don't like the Axe versions, chances are you wouldn't like the real amp (or vice versa). YMMV

I noticed some important changes with FW14 and I had to tweak my older presets to align them with the newer firmware. Here's what the FW14 Release Notes say:

Improved Recto models tone stack accuracy. The Recto models now use an exact digital replica of the unique tone control network used in those amps. Furthermore the Presence control now operates like the actual amp in all models (i.e. for those models where there is no negative feedback the Presence control is actually part of the tone stack). NOTE 1: The model may need to be reset by deselecting and reselecting the type in order to load the updated parameters. NOTE 2: If the power amp modeling is defeated the Presence control usually operates as a shelving filter with noon being neutral. For the Recto models where the Presence control is part of the tone stack this will not be the case. The Presence control will continue to act as it does when the power amp modeling is active since it is part of the preamp.
Due to the above, all Recto1 and Recto2 models have been re-MIMIC’d.


Post FW14, I find the Recto2 Red to be overly dark on default Presence settings, so I increase these from default (but beware of the F-M effect if dialling in at low volume). I'll post a preset later this week, but here are the kind of settings I use for Recto2 Red:

Drive: 5.0 to 6.0
Bass: 4.0 to 5.0
Mids: 4.5 or so. Interestingly, I notice that I need the Mids higher on the Axe in comparison with my actual amp. This could be a side-effect of using FRFR, plus my choice of IR.
Treble: 5.0
Master: 2.5 (default) I prefer to leave this on default as harshness and flubbiness seems to come in with higher settings. On my real amp, I never need to run the master at greater than 10:00 (o'clock).
Presence: 3.0 - 5.0 depending on the IR.
Dyn Depth: I've tried experimenting with very minor increases to this.

Personally, I don't like the Sat switch on this model and always leave it off.

Generally speaking, with FRFR, I find I have too much bass and I tend to use the Amp Block GEQ to cut the two lowest bands (using the 8-band).

For IRs, I'm currently using forumite guitarone's Mesa mix or the OH Live U/Res included with FW14. I've just bought the OH High Gain Essentials pack but haven't yet had a chance to try these out. I also quite like the Axe's stock OH cabs (43 and 44) mixed in stereo.

For lead sounds, I find Recto2 Red tends to sound way too thin and I've yet to find a Recto Org sound that doesn't sound too nasally (to my ears), which is pretty much the same story for me with the real amp. Therefore, I tend to use Recto2 Red with a variation to the approach I use with my actual amp: BB Preamp in front of amp (0 gain, treble and bass rolled down to boost the mids, level to taste to give a bit more preamp distortion), with Amp Block Level adjusted to give me the extra dBs I need. I'm still not entirely satisfied with the lead sounds and need to experiment more with tweaking the EQ to fatten up the lower mids, either with the Fat switch or the GEQ. (So many ways to skin this one... lol)

Final tip to experiment with, which some people swear by on the real amp: Mids on 10, Treble on 0. Try it and see what you think.
Click to expand...

I'm using Recto2 Mdrn a lot and there's no presence on it, it's a HiCut control, so i leave it a 0
 
AlGrenadine said:
I'm using Recto2 Mdrn a lot and there's no presence on it, it's a HiCut control, so i leave it a 0
Click to expand...

Damping should be set to .01 on the recto models in order for the software to allow the presence knob instead of a hicut, and the negative feedback would be inaudible at that level as well so no point in having it at 0. You should be able to reset the amp, and it would automatically make that adjustment for you.
 
NatKingAlford said:
Damping should be set to .01 on the recto models in order for the software to allow the presence knob instead of a hicut, and the negative feedback would be inaudible at that level as well so no point in having it at 0. You should be able to reset the amp, and it would automatically make that adjustment for you.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
NatKingAlford said:
Damping should be set to .01 on the recto models in order for the software to allow the presence knob instead of a hicut, and the negative feedback would be inaudible at that level as well so no point in having it at 0. You should be able to reset the amp, and it would automatically make that adjustment for you.
Click to expand...
Great tip, i didn't know that ! My damping was set to 0...
Is it wiki'd ?
 
Sorry for double posting. I might need to add something to the above post.
It might be possible that on some amp-models in the Axe-Fx II, there is a hi cut knob because damping = 0, but on the real amp, there is a presence knob working the other way around. I don't recall which amps behaved like this.
Also, this might be of interest:
FW 14.00 release notes said:
Added “Recto1 Org Mdrn” amp model based on the Orange channel of an original Dual Rectifier with the “Channel Cloning” switch set to “Org to Modern”. NOTE: Unlike the actual amp the Presence knob is effective in this model (in the actual amp the Presence knob has very little effect). When set to zero the Presence matches the actual amp at zero. When set to about 1.0 it matches the actual amp at full.
Click to expand...
 
Heres my live preset, well one of them anyway. It was dialled in on a PRS Custom 24 HFS/VB pickups into an RCF ART 722A

It might be a little bright for your guitar, seeing as PRS are quite pronounced in the low mids. Anyhow, I still love it.

The IR is Own Hammer's High Gain Essentials Mesa V30 En Slst Hg Lv 00

If you haven't picked any of the packs up yet, go do it now!
 

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