Anyone using the Presonus Studiolive 16.4.2 board for in ears?

boltrecords said:
So would this work?

I keep our presonus on stage with a computer so that we can control the main mix with an ipad. Then all the instruments go direct to the presonus.
Then I go from the main outs on the presonus to the connections to the mains back by the FOH by using the snake box on stage. Then all I'd have to do is have them unhook the left and right from their board and hook it to the snake coming from our board. May have to use/bring some xlr adapters to accommodate different clubs. But would that work. Then our sound guy can control the whole live mix right from the ipad. And we can utilize their mains. Should be relatively easy for them to just switch the main outs instead of having to switch all 16 channels from their board to ours.
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Absolutely yes, this will work. In this configuration, you'd be using the PreSonus StudioLive board as a monitor console.
 
QMIX! I want it!!!

Only drawback is it depends on a computer to connect the router to the board. And that computer needs to be firewire equipped (so no iPad for this:?)!!! Try to find firewire anywhere these days...
Oh, I can never understand why they don't supply direct outs on each channel. That would mean no splitters needed for monitor mixer use and a wagonload less cables.
Otherwise it looks awesome! If they release a board that can run the router directly that would be great lengths towards ideality!

I've been looking at the mackie DL1604 as well, it can be run with several iPads at once, but not with iPods and it has less features.

Presonus also has the 1818VSL that can be remotely controlled by iPad. But it only has two stereo auxes (not splittable) and a phones output, so I assume monitormixing would imply a bit of work with the pan on the channels... also needs adat interface and spdif to get the 18 channels. And a pc and router.
 
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Dutch said:
Oh, I can never understand why they don't supply direct outs on each channel. That would mean no splitters needed for monitor mixer use and a wagonload less cables.
Otherwise it looks awesome! If they release a board that can run the router directly that would be great lengths towards ideality!
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The 24.4.2 does have direct outs in the form of three D-sub outs (8 channels each). We use it with a MyMix setup we got before the QMix app was available. It works really well.

That 32AI looks amazing... PreSonus | StudioLive 32.4.2AI
 
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Another 24.4.2 user here for several years.

I've only had two issues.

One time during a festival where I was running FOH, the thing glitched and the sound went haywire, the whole board flashed, but then all was well, just one of those "new pair of shorts" moments you have now and then :) But that's the only glitch I've ever had using it for many shows.

The other issue is it is a little hard to read the board in direct sunlight. Not a major flaw. But it has annoyed me enough I though I would mention it.

On the plus side, the sound of the board is really incredible for the money. I'd rank the sound of preamps, EQ's and compressors darn close to something like the Yamaha PM series.

Richard
 
We just recently got the Mackie DL1604 for our in ear system. It sounds good, very clean, good separation and all that jazz. The eq, comps and gates seem fine, usable for sure. The delay and verb is questionable, but I put some verb on our vocals and it seemed fine in the mix, certainly not offensive. There are certainly some issues that Mackie needs to address (such as allowing the user to group aux outputs for stereo mixes) but so far so good.

BTW, Mackie just announced that a new version of the ipad app is coming soon with some nice improvements and they also announced that there will be an iphone/ipod app soon as well, which should be very cool!
 
Turns out the 16.4.2 doesn't have enough auxes for our band. Kinda sucks. 24 channel board is going to be too large to fit in our rack. So completely overhauling our current rig to fit that board may not be worth it. Kind of a pain in the ass.
 
It's a real challenge finding the right feature set for your needs with all these different boards. All these new mixers have cool features, but each is also lacking features that one of the other might have. It seems like a compomise no matter which way you go.

The Mackie had just enough auxes for us, but we gave up multi channel direct recording, which was a bummer. The Presonus is great, but a lot more money than the Mackie and we didn't want to bring a CPU along just to get ipad control. The Line6 mixer has some cool features too, but it's even more money than the Mackie and not enough auxes. None of them offered a perfect solution.

p
 
boltrecords said:
Turns out the 16.4.2 doesn't have enough auxes for our band. Kinda sucks. 24 channel board is going to be too large to fit in our rack. So completely overhauling our current rig to fit that board may not be worth it. Kind of a pain in the ass.
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I went from an all rack rig to the 24.4.2.

But I was able to chuck all the outboard gear. Out with the outboard comps, and graphic eq's and everything. So it was worth it in the end for me.

At the same time I changed power amps to lighter amps in separate lightweight racks. I put the amps close to the speaker stacks and run a short speaker cable from the amp to the stack. Kind of a poor man's powered speaker in that I run XLR and power to the stack just like a powered rig would be.

Richard
 
Rick said:
I've done some work on the new Behringer X32, which is supposed to do all this and more, but it simply is not there yet. And, as snobby as it sounds, my experiences just won't let me trust my gig to Behringer anyway even though the board is miles better than anything they did previously. The Presonus solution is untouchable at this price point.
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We're running a 24 channel Studiolive at church right now (works great!) and there's some talk about moving to the Behringer X32. I'm not sure what the decision driver is to be honest.

Rick, can you elaborate on "simply is not there yet" with respect to the X32?

Thanks.

Terry.
 
Dutch said:
QMIX! I want it!!!

Only drawback is it depends on a computer to connect the router to the board. And that computer needs to be firewire equipped (so no iPad for this:?)!!! Try to find firewire anywhere these days...
Oh, I can never understand why they don't supply direct outs on each channel. That would mean no splitters needed for monitor mixer use and a wagonload less cables.
Otherwise it looks awesome! If they release a board that can run the router directly that would be great lengths towards ideality!

I've been looking at the mackie DL1604 as well, it can be run with several iPads at once, but not with iPods and it has less features.

Presonus also has the 1818VSL that can be remotely controlled by iPad. But it only has two stereo auxes (not splittable) and a phones output, so I assume monitormixing would imply a bit of work with the pan on the channels... also needs adat interface and spdif to get the 18 channels. And a pc and router.
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You could try a Mac Mini for this application.
 
I like the fact that the faders only have one function, no layers. This is probably because the faders aren't moterized.

Makes things easier to handle.

The only thing I miss is the ability to use a digital snake or is this possible?
 
Tone Seeker said:
Rick, can you elaborate on "simply is not there yet" with respect to the X32?

Thanks.

Terry.
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The X32 has a lot of capability if you are mixing straight from the board. If you need more than 4 subgroups, the X32 can accommodate. Basically, the X32 is set up with 16 output busses and doesn't really care how you use them. So you can trade mix busses for monitor mixes, etc. The X32 has more control of mute groups, and the motorized faders are helpful in many ways. It also has a larger LCD, helpful when editing on the fly. For the money, it has more features than anything I have ever seen. But when you move to remote capabilities, the X32 app is much less fully developed. It's getting better but is very basic at this point. Control of things like tap tempo, some EQ functions, Smaart analyzing, are not there. The first version was pretty Spartan, and the next version had a bit more. I am sure it will continue to develop and add function.

My biggest aversion to a future with Behringer is a past with Behringer. I have used many of their items, always thinking I was saving money because it had more features at a better price. When you look at the X32, that's the first thought. "Holy cow, this is astonishing for this price!" In every single instance where I have purchased Behringer based on this, it was a mistake. The quality components weren't there, the road-worthiness wasn't there, and the longevity that results from quality construction wasn't there. Failures were the norm and you become an expert at "work-arounds." With the Presonus, that has not been the case. They did experience a rough stretch with Universal Control 1.6. It sucked, honestly. I was on the beta team for Universal Control 1.7, and it fixed every issue 1.6 had. I think if you compare the remote interfaces, you will immediately understand what I am referring to.

As an aside, you can download the free StudioLive Remote app to your iPad and play with the interface on demo mixers that are included (no actual mixer or router required).

The digital snake capability of the X32 is another great point. I hope it is being included on the Presonus AI series.

On the "switching from a rack rig" thing, we used a 20 space ATA rack as the table for our mixer case. It works fine and makes wiring a snap. We eventually went away from that to a small folding table that holds a mixer case and a 8 space rack with our power regulator, CD player, MyMix network box, with open spaces in the bottom where cables are coiled for transport. It is compact, light, and loads easily. With the StudioLive mixer, I got rid of four racked EQs, two rack compressors, two rack FX units and all of that weight. All of this and much more is already in the StudioLive. We could easily function with the mixer and a 4 space rack.

@ Bolt- How many Auxes are you needing? The 16.4.2 gives you 6 and you won't need any for FX, EQs, gates, compressors, etc. You might have things I am not thinking of, but most of what is in your current rack will likely be unnecessary with a Studiolive. Every channel has full EQ, and there are several stereo graphics you can assign to the main or subgroups.
 
EDIT: Updated Information

I had the chance to work on the Behringer X32 remote program for the iPad this past Saturday. I have to say I was seriously impressed. They have added a lot of functionality and monitoring abilities. It is quite a bit better than the last version I worked on, and represents many more of the X32's real features. Although each has it's own pluses and minuses, I would say the current versions of each are on par with one another as far as covering function for their respective mixers.

I remain doubtful of the long-term value and road-worthiness until the X32 proves me wrong in the real world, but can state emphatically that if the X32 stays together and shows it is as resilient as it is feature packed, it will then be the best bang for the buck in it's class. Time will tell. Until then, I'll be mixing on Presonus, the current proven king.

I wanted to keep this as current and honest as possible. To the OP, the X32 has all of the auxes and outs you need (as far as I can tell) and might be worth a serious look as it isn't far from the Presonus 16.4.2 in cost. It is, however, bigger than the Presonus 24 in size, so racking is out of the question.
 
Rick said:
I also use the 24.4.2 and love it. The board has been in regular service for over a year and has been great. The main difference for in ear monitors between it and the 16.4.2 is that the 16 has 6 aux mixes, the 24 has 10. The on board effects are on their own auxes and do not use any of those.

The board's capabilities would take a long post to cover, but suffice it to say that the "Fat Channel" function alone is worth the price. You won't need outboard compressors, parametric EQs, gates, etc because there is one available on every channel already. There are two digital FX busses to cover delays and verbs. The signal is clean and powerful.

The computer: It is not required to use the board, it will operate fine without one. You can also run all the aux mixes right from the board. But you are missing out on a lot of the functionality if you don't have a computer connected via the firewire connection. With a computer, you can connect with an iPad and run the entire mixer remotely. Our band does not even carry a snake anymore because it is just too easy to set the mixer on or near the stage and use the ipad in the audience. Also, you can give each player control of their monitor mix using an iPod touch or iPhone and a free app called "QMix." Via permissions in the computer, you can limit what each person can control. Grant one aux to each IEM, have the person dial up the mixer via WiFi on their iPod Touch, and they can give themselves whatever they want to hear. The app contains a dial called "The Wheel of Me" which makes sure anytime you want "more me" it is the biggest dial there. What the computer allows is the connection of a router, and this is what makes the iPad and QMix function possible.

We use it, we love it, and that's that!

Capture: Capture is a full 24 + 2 track recorder software that comes free with the mixer. On your computer (another good reason to have one connected) you can record the band live in full 24 track while playing. There are also two tracks of the stereo mains. You can take these tracks later and mix them or work with them to master the recording. This has a lot more function than easy demos and souvenirs! You can record your band and save the track. Next time you set up and half the band is late getting there, you can feed the recording BACK INTO THE MIXER and do a complete sound check with not a soul playing live. Set the PA to the room and as long as the band is using somewhat similar settings you are ready to fly. It kicks some serious butt.

I've done some work on the new Behringer X32, which is supposed to do all this and more, but it simply is not there yet. And, as snobby as it sounds, my experiences just won't let me trust my gig to Behringer anyway even though the board is miles better than anything they did previously. The Presonus solution is untouchable at this price point.
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I've worked with the Presonus 24 channel board a lot, both running it for other bands as well as using it to gig with somebody else at the board. I would like to echo Rick's comments about it being great. The wireless functionality is lacking, however, as there are some things you can't control from the iPad, such as gains, view the meters for compression, limiters, etc... it's kinda weird actually. It's not a big deal if you're the front of house guy and can just walk over to the board to fix those things, but Saturday we ran into a situation where the house board was on stage and they provided an iPad for our soundguy to use. Any time he had to adjust something that he couldn't do from the iPad he had to pop up on stage.

Where we disagree is with the Behringer X32. I haven't used it personally, but my aforementioned sound guy just got one. We'll be implementing that hopefully soon and according to him it blows the presonus out of the water. I'm apprehensive about it simply due to the "behringer" label, but I trust his opinion wholeheartedly (he was the engineer and producer on my album, is a phenomenal musician, and a friggin' wizard with live sound).
 
Sidivan said:
Where we disagree is with the Behringer X32. I haven't used it personally, but my aforementioned sound guy just got one. We'll be implementing that hopefully soon and according to him it blows the presonus out of the water. I'm apprehensive about it simply due to the "behringer" label, but I trust his opinion wholeheartedly (he was the engineer and producer on my album, is a phenomenal musician, and a friggin' wizard with live sound).
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@ Sid: We're actually in agreement there. The X32 has a lot of bells and whistles the Presonus lacks. And I couldn't agree more about the need to have input gain control in the SL Remote app. The advantage new board manufacturers have, including Behringer/Midas, is having the Presonus as a target. If a person spent any time in the Presonus forums over the years since the 16.4.2 was introduced (followed by the 24, then the 16.0.2) and made a list of every gripe made against the StudioLive, and then a list of it's features, and then built a board based on that you would come up with the X32. I also have spent time on the X32 courtesy of my sound man, who does work professionally in Texas and Nashville. He loves it so far but has the same "hold together" fears I have expressed.

Unfortunately, Presonus has simply evolved the StudioLive in it's newest incarnation, and didn't add more subgroups or motorized faders. On the other hand, your entire mix is available as a single view on the Presonus, instead of in layers of channel groups as it is on the X32.

All said, the X32 sounds good, has scads of controls, digital snake capability, and other features that put it at the head of the "features" class. What remains to be seen is whether it will break more often than similar units. My experience with Behringer has been the worst of any music production equipment I have ever experienced in 35+ years of doing this. Hands down, the worst. I'll let other folks prove me wrong, then I will gladly jump on board the Behringer X32 train. Until then, I'm staying put!
 
I'm actually seriously thinking about building a cheap in-ear rack for my other band based around a Jam Hub and a small drum mixer. Run a rack mounted split snake and just wheel into the gig, tap into the house snake, and boom we get perfect monitors. I think I can build it for under a grand + the actual In Ear units. Granted, it's not ideal for a band that brings their own FoH, but boy would that be handy for my original band, which only plays a 45min set in small clubs.
 
Can I just say that I for one appreciate the content in this discussion
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(and can I also add that it's seriously not helping me to hold back on replacing our 'old school' Mackie 1642 VLZ
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Which is a decision being made harder / easier by virtue of the fact that it would also mean a new rack case etc etc)
 
Cover'd said:
Can I just say that I for one appreciate the content in this discussion
thumbsup.gif




(and can I also add that it's seriously not helping me to hold back on replacing our 'old school' Mackie 1642 VLZ
thumbsup.gif
Which is a decision being made harder / easier by virtue of the fact that it would also mean a new rack case etc etc)
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I hate to further hijack the thread, but wanted to point out that I was a died-in-the-wool Mackie man from the introduction of the 1604 forward. I've used several, along with a 24.8 in the studio and a 24.4 Onyx up until a bit more than a year ago. I started to see a decline in the quality of the Mackie product, and had several associates experiencing the same type of failures. That is what started my search into whatever else was out there. The Presonus absolutely blew me away. The features were pretty much unheard of at the time (for under 8-10K) and the sound quality is great. I bought one and been using it for live gigs ever since. It has about a hundred shows on it now and it works like new.

The X32 wasn't available until mid year 2012, so it wasn't a part of my considerations. I have had the chance to work on it because our soundman, who owns his own full time recording facility, bought an X32 to try out in his studio. It is impressive. If you try one straight from an analog Mackie, it will blow your mind.

For those considering IEMs, you just can't touch the function of these new boards with a "regular" analog mixer anywhere close to the price.


NEW INFO EDIT
It would appear you CAN rack a X32. I can't keep up! http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X32-RACK.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTDEhQMrZw
 
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