Anyone Try 11B through a matrix GT1000FX into a regular Guitar cab?

should'nt you use out 1 for frfr cab block at end of chain cab sims on and out2 to fx loop would branch off before cab block so no cab sims

That's how I do it. No problems here using Matrix. I may yet need to adjust the main global EQ for OUT1 (FRFR) a little, but no big deal.
 
should'nt you use out 1 for frfr cab block at end of chain cab sims on and out2 to fx loop would branch off before cab block so no cab sims

Actually, as the OP is using a tube power amp (not neutral) as well as FRFR, it may be best to have separate paths. As explained here:
http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/images/8/88/3.4.7_Direct_to_FOH_plus_Real_Amps_on_Stage.pdf

The FRFR path (OUT1) has a regular Amp block and Cab block.

The path to the Fryette and guitar cab would have an Amp block with the same amp type, but with SAG off (to disable power amp simulation) and no Cab block.
 
should'nt you use out 1 for frfr cab block at end of chain cab sims on and out2 to fx loop would branch off before cab block so no cab sims
this is exactly what I'm doing I throw a PEQ or a GEQ in front of the FX loop block so I can try and match what I'm hearing from FRFR as close as I can out of my 2X12.
Warning .....long Post

So this is what I did last night, I figured I'd give FW11B another shot, did a system reset after I updated and plugged in the Matrix.
I saw another post somewhere where Cliff mentioned that lowering the compression helps with the bass flub so I turned it off
on all of my higher gain patches and dialed it back in to taste.
Wow!, the Matrix sounded much more "real" than what I remember, so I played around with it for a bit and thought ....hmmm Maybe I'll just keep the Matrix and sell the Fryette. I need to do a "taste test" :)
So I took one output from Output 2 on my Axe that was going into Channel A of the matrix and the channel out and plugged them into my Fryette and I kept the 2nd output from the Axe plugged into the Matrix. So I was running two power amps in stereo into my 2X12 cab (we did this during the FRFR shootout too) Channel "A" Fryette, channel "B" matrix.
I turned each channel up one at a time and played for a while, turned it down and used the other amp for a while, then I'd go back and play with the other channel.
I did this back and forth for about an hour. Set the presence on the Fryette to zero and the depth at 10:00 o'clock.
the Matrix is sold on it's way to Canada.
there is still quite a difference,the Fryette is fuller, rounder,
brighter (which surprised me since I had the presence dialed down to zero) and the notes just sing more.
The Marshall based amps sound amazing now, the amp sims just come alive through the Fryette (no need to turn sag off either which is huge for me since I can run one amp sim out to both outputs).
I would not have noticed how much of a difference there was unless I did this side by side back and forth testing.
Without the comparison I thought the Matrix sounded great, once I plugged in the Fryette it
was no contest.
For Driving an FRFR cab/wedge, I'd say yes the Matrix works great, but to drive a regular guitar cab with no IR's on???
It also shines here as well but when compared to a pretty flat tube power amp like the Fryette 2/50/2
The Fryette IMO is just king. I just wish it was 1U so I could stick it back into my smaller rack.
I hope that 1U 6L6 amp Fryette demo'd last year comes to fruition some day so I can check it out.
If I was gigging and weight was an issue I'd have to really think hard about this, FW11B definitely adds some punch that was missing.
Everyone has different 'requirements' of their rig, with mine, this set up is my ideal. :D
Nick
 
With the VHT poweramps (I'm using a 2:90:2), I've heard that setting the Depth to 0 is the most neutral position for that control, but with the presence control on these amps, I've heard that true neutral is right around the 9 o'clock position instead. Is that true, or is the amp most neutral with both presence and depth set to 0?
 
The Presence control on Mesa amps is most neutral around noon. If you turn it up it boosts the highs, if you turn it down it cuts the highs. On most other power amps it only boosts.

In the Mesa sims within the Axe II, does the response of the Presence parameter's virtual knob's position behave in the same way as the real-world Mesa amp's Presence knob's position?

I.e. With Presence at 0 there is a hi-cut, with Presence at noon it's neutral and with Presence above noon there is a boost in highs?
If so, is this true or all of the modelled Mesa amps in the II?

I think that in some previous Axe II firmwares, and definitely in the Ultra/Standard, the Presence parameter in the Amp Block used to be neutral at noon, no?
But at some point in the II's firmware this was changed so that no cut was possible anymore, wasn't it?

Do I have most (any) of this right?

FWIW
I appreciated being able to cut the Presence (on *all* the amp sims) when that was possible.
Wouldn't mind having that feature again.
 
In the Mesa sims within the Axe II, does the response of the Presence parameter's virtual knob's position behave in the same way as the real-world Mesa amp's Presence knob's position?

I.e. With Presence at 0 there is a hi-cut, with Presence at noon it's neutral and with Presence above noon there is a boost in highs?
If so, is this true or all of the modelled Mesa amps in the II?

I think that in some previous Axe II firmwares, and definitely in the Ultra/Standard, the Presence parameter in the Amp Block used to be neutral at noon, no?
But at some point in the II's firmware this was changed so that no cut was possible anymore, wasn't it?

Do I have most (any) of this right?

FWIW
I appreciated being able to cut the Presence (on *all* the amp sims) when that was possible.
Wouldn't mind having that feature again.

You have it right Cliff just mentioned it in another thread 5 is neutral ,> boost high < cuts
 
For Driving an FRFR cab/wedge, I'd say yes the Matrix works great, but to drive a regular guitar cab with no IR's on???

Clearly something somewhere in your setup / settings is not right, because the Matrix is perfectly capable of driving a guitar cab.
There are pros using exactly that setup.
 
Guys, you're mixing up things.

Joegold is talking about the Mesa amps "sims".

Randalljax is talking about Mesa power amps and Cliff's tips for those.

Joegold, look in the wiki. There it's explained for each amp type how the Presence controls works or is modeled.
Example: USA PRE Green / Yellow: "Based on Mesa Triaxis LD2 modes. Note that these were modeled with the Triaxis Presence control at maximum as this control is actually a hi-cut control."
 
Guys, you're mixing up things.

Joegold is talking about the Mesa amps "sims".

Randalljax is talking about Mesa power amps and Cliff's tips for those.

Joegold, look in the wiki. There it's explained for each amp type how the Presence controls works or is modeled.
Example: USA PRE Green / Yellow: "Based on Mesa Triaxis LD2 modes. Note that these were modeled with the Triaxis Presence control at maximum as this control is actually a hi-cut control."

Not sure what you think we're mixing up, but you're mixing stuff up here yourself.

The Triaxis is a preamp, not a power amp.
It happens to have a Presence control on it, presumably because some Triaxis users were using power amps w/o negative feedback based Presence controls.
When Cliff modelled the Triaxis preamp he set the preamp's Presence control on maximum.
Whether or not that's a good thing remains to be seen in my opinion.
I owned a Triaxis for many years and would have never had that control on maximum for any tone that I'd want to play with.
Cliff's logic is probably based on the idea that it's easier to cut highs than it is to add them in via EQ.
But with the Triaxis' sims available controls there doesn't seem to be any way to set the sim up to sound like a real Triaxis would with its Presence set lower than maximum except maybe to use the Amp Block's GEQ or to add an EQ Block to the Layout somewhere.
And the Presence control in the power amp sections of the Triaxis sims affects the power amp sims' tone, not the preamp tones.

As far as Randalljax's reply to me is concerned I have no reason yet to assume that he misunderstood me.
Would be nice to get a link to the comments he says Cliff made elsewhere about this though so I can see what he really meant.

As far as the amp sims' info on the Wiki is concerned all it says is which real-world amps have Presence controls and which do not as far as I can see.
It says nothing about how the amp sims' Presence controls operate.

Since Mesa's power amps apparently have a different implementation to their Presence controls than most other power amps what I want to know is whether or not the Mesa amp sims in the Axe reflect the real-world Mesa power amps.

I'd have to get out the firmware release notes but I could swear that at some point cliff took out the ability to use the Axe's Presence control as a hi-cut control and I would assume that this would apply to *all* the amp sims in the II.

If I've got that wrong I'd like to be corrected.
If I'm missing something it would be nice to know also.
 
As far as the amp sims' info on the Wiki is concerned all it says is which real-world amps have Presence controls and which do not as far as I can see. It says nothing about how the amp sims' Presence controls operate.

Yes, it does in some cases. For example, see the Recto and USA Lead notes.

As I understand, Cliff's notes about the Presence, Depth, Resonance controls on the amp, deal with "real" power amps, not the amp sims. For the source, just scroll above on this (first) page ...

To turn Presence into a HiCut conntrol, turn Damping to zero. Or switch off power amp simulation.
 
Clearly something somewhere in your setup / settings is not right, because the Matrix is perfectly capable of driving a guitar cab.
There are pros using exactly that setup.
the Matrix is perfectly capable of driving a guitar cab,my settings are fine.
I did say if I was gigging I'd have to really think about which amp to use and it would be a tough trade off. that extra punch and feel I get form tubes or the lighter weight and 1U space in the rack.
But.............. side by side using the same patch through the same guitar cab,the difference is quite clear and obvious that one is solid state
and one is tube. I've been playing since 1975, I've been through this SS VS tube thing before, the tools we have now are much , much better than anything we ever had before, but there is still a difference, although getting smaller and smaller seemingly by the month.
 
the Matrix is perfectly capable of driving a guitar cab,my settings are fine.
I did say if I was gigging I'd have to really think about which amp to use and it would be a tough trade off. that extra punch and feel I get form tubes or the lighter weight and 1U space in the rack.
But.............. side by side using the same patch through the same guitar cab,the difference is quite clear and obvious that one is solid state
and one is tube. I've been playing since 1975, I've been through this SS VS tube thing before, the tools we have now are much , much better than anything we ever had before, but there is still a difference, although getting smaller and smaller seemingly by the month.

I do not see any debate here.

tubes are tubes -- end of story.

I think the Axe/Matrix combination IMO gets you as close as you will ever get to an analog experience using digital platforms - FW11 closes the gap even more.
 
Yes, it does in some cases. For example, see the Recto and USA Lead notes.

As I understand, Cliff's notes about the Presence, Depth, Resonance controls on the amp, deal with "real" power amps, not the amp sims. For the source, just scroll above on this (first) page ...

To turn Presence into a HiCut conntrol, turn Damping to zero. Or switch off power amp simulation.

Sorry yek but you don't seem to understand what I'm asking and perhaps not Randalljax's answer either.

But thanks anyhoo.
 
But.............. side by side using the same patch through the same guitar cab,the difference is quite clear

Not really a good test.
Unless you're using an audiophile oriented tube power amp as opposed to a tube power amp that's designed for guitar it will be colouring the tone and you'll need to re-tweak your presets to match the tone of the solid state preamp.
Then you can try to assess any differences in feel that you hear but it'll still be apples to oranges.

Supposedly the Fryette 2:50:2 has some settings that are close to audiophile.
The Atomic power amp is also in that ballpark.
The 2:90 does not, as far as I know, have anything like a truly flat uncoloured setting.

PS
I seem to be mixing up my responses across two different threads.
Sorry if the 2:90 comments are of topic in this one.
 
I haven't tried a 2:90 but I did use a 50/50 in the past and it really added a Mesa flavor to all for my patches.
The Fryette is much more neutral (especially with KT-77's in there)
You know, there is so much debate on this forum about "flat" and "un-clolored" etc etc.
I don't really get too caught up in that , all I care about is getting the best sound out of this thing that I can.
Some people on here seem to have this attitude that if you're using a tube power amp ...."you're doing it wrong".
If you don't love this product or that ....your doing something wrong.
I'm sorry I don't the kool aid I use my own hands and ears.

[qoute]
Unless you're using an audiophile oriented tube power amp as opposed to a tube power amp that's designed for guitar it will be colouring the tone and you'll need to re-tweak your presets to match the tone of the solid state preamp.
[/quote]
why would I want to do this when the tube amp sounds and feels better?
 
Sorry yek but you don't seem to understand what I'm asking and perhaps not Randalljax's answer either.

But thanks anyhoo.

You asked: "does the response of the Presence parameter's virtual knob's position behave in the same way as the real-world Mesa amp's Presence knob's position?"

I pointed you to the wiki where it's explained how the Presence control works in the USA Lead, USA PRE and Recto Modern models.

It differs per model. So that answers your question: "is this true or all of the modelled Mesa amps in the II?"

You wrote: "I appreciated being able to cut the Presence (on *all* the amp sims) when that was possible. Wouldn't mind having that feature again." I pointed to the Damping parameter and power amp simulation.

Randalljax answered (about Presence being neutral at noon): "You have it right Cliff just mentioned it in another thread 5 is neutral ,> boost high < cuts."
If this is about the amp models, than this is not correct. Because in some models Presence at noon is not neutral. See above.
But more important, (I think) Cliff was talking about setting Presence to a neutral setting on a real Mesa power amp, when connecting the Axe-Fx to it. Which is something entirely different than you asked.

My only intention was to help. Seems like you're offended. I'll leave it to this.
 
You asked: "does the response of the Presence parameter's virtual knob's position behave in the same way as the real-world Mesa amp's Presence knob's position?"

I pointed you to the wiki where it's explained how the Presence control works in the USA Lead, USA PRE and Recto Modern models.

It differs per model. So that answers your question: "is this true or all of the modelled Mesa amps in the II?"

You wrote: "I appreciated being able to cut the Presence (on *all* the amp sims) when that was possible. Wouldn't mind having that feature again." I pointed to the Damping parameter and power amp simulation.

Randalljax answered (about Presence being neutral at noon): "You have it right Cliff just mentioned it in another thread 5 is neutral ,> boost high < cuts."
If this is about the amp models, than this is not correct. Because in some models Presence at noon is not neutral. See above.
But more important, (I think) Cliff was talking about setting Presence to a neutral setting on a real Mesa power amp, when connecting the Axe-Fx to it. Which is something entirely different than you asked.

My only intention was to help. Seems like you're offended. I'll leave it to this.

Not offended. Just frustrated.

I did not look at the Wiki description of the USA models or the Recto that you cite above.
I looked at the USA Clean models' descriptions, which are the ones that interest me most, and there was no talk about noon on the Presence control just like there's no talk about how the Presence controls on any other non-Mesa amp sim happen to operate.
So, I falsely assumed that any other Mesa amp sim description would have the same issues.
Sorry. And thanks.

Now...
Is this also true for the Presence controls on the other Mark Series amp sims and the Triaxis Clean and Lead sims?
I don't know enough about real Rectos to know how their Presence circuits work, but I'm guessing they work the same way as the other amps mentioned above, so it would be nice to know about them too.

And... I don't know how Cliff did or does the hi-cut with Presence control below noon with regards to negative feedback being involved, but I suspect that if you turn off the sim's negative feedback, by turning the Damp parameter to 0, that it's a different sound. Etc.
I'd much rather be able to use the Presence parameter for this w/o having to defeat any negative feedback by turning the Damping off.

I hope that's clear.

As for Randalljax's reply to me, he'll have to speak for himself.
Enough broken telephone.
 
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I haven't tried a 2:90 but I did use a 50/50 in the past and it really added a Mesa flavor to all for my patches.
The Fryette is much more neutral (especially with KT-77's in there)
You know, there is so much debate on this forum about "flat" and "un-clolored" etc etc.
I don't really get too caught up in that , all I care about is getting the best sound out of this thing that I can.
Some people on here seem to have this attitude that if you're using a tube power amp ...."you're doing it wrong".
If you don't love this product or that ....your doing something wrong.
I'm sorry I don't the kool aid I use my own hands and ears.

[qoute]
Unless you're using an audiophile oriented tube power amp as opposed to a tube power amp that's designed for guitar it will be colouring the tone and you'll need to re-tweak your presets to match the tone of the solid state preamp.
why would I want to do this when the tube amp sounds and feels better?[/QUOTE]

Depends what you bought the Axe for and what you expect to get out of it I guess.
As for *me*, I like to hear what the Axe was intended to sound like, as clinically accurate as possible.
 
I haven't tried a 2:90 but I did use a 50/50 in the past and it really added a Mesa flavor to all for my patches.
The Fryette is much more neutral (especially with KT-77's in there)
You know, there is so much debate on this forum about "flat" and "un-clolored" etc etc.
I don't really get too caught up in that , all I care about is getting the best sound out of this thing that I can.
Some people on here seem to have this attitude that if you're using a tube power amp ...."you're doing it wrong".
If you don't love this product or that ....your doing something wrong.
I'm sorry I don't the kool aid I use my own hands and ears.

[qoute]
Unless you're using an audiophile oriented tube power amp as opposed to a tube power amp that's designed for guitar it will be colouring the tone and you'll need to re-tweak your presets to match the tone of the solid state preamp.
why would I want to do this when the tube amp sounds and feels better?[/QUOTE]

And FWIW
I get just as frustrated as you do about 'right and wrong' ways to use the Axe when I see guys insist that we need to be using tube power amps to get the best tone.
 
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