Anybody using the II with 4 cable method, I tried it tonight

Spent a few more hours trying to rid the hiss to no luck. Was able to quiet it up by keeping gain down but that doesn't really solve anything. I don't think it has to do with ground loops but more that something hits the loop too hard. Will have to go back to using my G Major in the loop, it does not hiss. Did not buy the Axe II to use the 4CM with a amp but it would have been a nice option. Anyone else have any success?
 
Hi.
I use(d) the 4CM method extremely successfully with the Axe II and my Ceriatone HRM (Dumble Clone). Absolutely 0 problems from the get go. But I should note that I use a C-lator (Ceriatone equivalent to the D-Lator) which handles the loop impedance issues. The Dumble effects loop is poorly designed and HAD designed a loop buffer which handles the impedance issues with it. The clone has, obviously, the same design issues, and so I use the C Lator also. I have no ground loop, impedance mismatch, hiss, noise or any other issues. The ONLY issue I have is that the Dumble model sounds way too close to my Ceriatone to justify lugging it anymore. That's annoying!;)
I also recommend the Laird white paper. Its a bit convoluted but it describes quite well what issues may exist with using an effects unit such as the Axe or the G system in the 4CM.
 
Messed with it more tonight. I hooked up the Axe using it just through the effects loop of the amp, going send into input 1 and return from output 1. Works very quietly like that, no hissing. Hook back .up using the 4 cable method, hiss begins as soon as effects loop block is added.. I would really like it to work the 4 cable method so I can use the drives and wah, not giving up yet will try some more tomorrow.
 
Patzag said:
Hi.
I use(d) the 4CM method extremely successfully with the Axe II and my Ceriatone HRM (Dumble Clone). Absolutely 0 problems from the get go. But I should note that I use a C-lator (Ceriatone equivalent to the D-Lator) which handles the loop impedance issues. The Dumble effects loop is poorly designed and HAD designed a loop buffer which handles the impedance issues with it. The clone has, obviously, the same design issues, and so I use the C Lator also. I have no ground loop, impedance mismatch, hiss, noise or any other issues. The ONLY issue I have is that the Dumble model sounds way too close to my Ceriatone to justify lugging it anymore. That's annoying!;)
I also recommend the Laird white paper. Its a bit convoluted but it describes quite well what issues may exist with using an effects unit such as the Axe or the G system in the 4CM.
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I'm wondering i was thinking about trying this 4 cable method with my switchblade 100, but the last time i tried it i had alot of issues with noise as well. I just pulled up this ceriatone c-later, and it doesn't seem to really have any information on what its normally used for, or how you hook it up.
 
What about levels?

I don't have a Axe II, but I have used my Ultra 4CM for years with no problems (and my custom tube amp has a standard FX Loop, no Cathode Follower like the Dumbulator)?

As far as levels are concerned the Axe's Out 2 is outputting Line Level, and if you put Line Level into the front-end of a high-gain guitar amp you'll have elevated noise too (not to mention the possibility of unwanted distortion?).

The Effects Block's Send Level are controled by it's virtual Faders, and it's Return Level is controlled by the Mix Tab's Level Control. Normally you'd set the Send Level to match what your guitar or pedals output, and then adjust the preamp's output with the Return Level if need be?

Good luck...

lizzieusedaaxe said:
Messed with it more tonight. I hooked up the Axe using it just through the effects loop of the amp, going send into input 1 and return from output 1. Works very quietly like that, no hissing. Hook back .up using the 4 cable method, hiss begins as soon as effects loop block is added.. I would really like it to work the 4 cable method so I can use the drives and wah, not giving up yet will try some more tomorrow.
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Another here unable to use 4CM. Since I switched back to (primarily) using real amps, I wanted to be able to use the Axe to do some pedalesque duties, but no-go. After going into debt for the real amp thing, I cannot afford to get the Axe.. "fixed." Oh, well.
 
4cm with Ultra - no problems, quiet, no hiss, no hum. With AxeII, same as all the other posts, noisy as hell. With: Mark V, ENGL Morse, Triaxis, Pirhana - all noisy - even put the Triaxis in the fx loop, noise-o-rama (replaced amp block in the grid with fx loop) Going to try Axe in the amp loop, as FX only, no compressor, wah, etc. from the Axe. No "hum buster" cables, but I'm going to try with TSR cables - that works well with my "other" fx unit.
 
lizzieusedaaxe said:
Messed with it more tonight. I hooked up the Axe using it just through the effects loop of the amp, going send into input 1 and return from output 1. Works very quietly like that, no hissing. Hook back .up using the 4 cable method, hiss begins as soon as effects loop block is added.. I would really like it to work the 4 cable method so I can use the drives and wah, not giving up yet will try some more tomorrow.
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You might not think so but you need a ground loop breaker. My Peavey XXX has so much noise when you use the 4 cable method you would think there is something wrong with the amp. I took my cheap little ground look breaker box and put it in the loop signal and it's completely silent the second you break the ground loop. The noise isn't a hum like you expect it's like you plugged in the noisiest distortion pedal you could find. Add the ground look breaker box and all gone. It's all depends on your amps effects loop.
 
There was a lot of debate on this board about the issues related to the Output 2 hiss when using 4CM with the Axe II...

To cut a long story short, i got my Axe II modded by G66 to eliminate the hiss from Output 2 and can safely say that the 4CM now sounds spectacular with my Marshall JVM 410H.
It's very transparent and totally usable even without a true bypass looper. Before the mod, it was unusable because of the hiss. I'm also using humbuster cables which eliminated the ground loop i was also getting before. This is now a killer setup because i can adjust my amp's gain and eq on the fly, while the Axe II takes care of all front end and fx loop effects.
 
Luca9583 said:
There was a lot of debate on this board about the issues related to the Output 2 hiss when using 4CM with the Axe II...

To cut a long story short, i got my Axe II modded by G66 to eliminate the hiss from Output 2 and can safely say that the 4CM now sounds spectacular with my Marshall JVM 410H.
It's very transparent and totally usable even without a true bypass looper. Before the mod, it was unusable because of the hiss. I'm also using humbuster cables which eliminated the ground loop i was also getting before. This is now a killer setup because i can adjust my amp's gain and eq on the fly, while the Axe II takes care of all front end and fx loop effects.
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Did you try a hum eliminator ground breaker box like the Ebtech? Like I said in my previous post the AXEFX made my XXX sound like I plugged in the noisiest guitar pedal ever made. I took out my $18 Berringher Hum eliminator box out and put it in front of the fxreturn and completely quiet. I use it anytime I get any weird noise from anything. 99% of the time it fixes any noise you would never think is caused by a ground problem.
 
schlagdog said:
Did you try a hum eliminator ground breaker box like the Ebtech? Like I said in my previous post the AXEFX made my XXX sound like I plugged in the noisiest guitar pedal ever made. I took out my $18 Berringher Hum eliminator box out and put it in front of the fxreturn and completely quiet. I use it anytime I get any weird noise from anything. 99% of the time it fixes any noise you would never think is caused by a ground problem.
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I haven't tried any hum eliminators..the humbuster cables sorted out my ground loop and the mod sorted out the hiss.
 
I think the hum cables just do the same thing for many more dollars. My box took care all of that for $18. Before that it was completely unusable in the 4CM.
 
schlagdog said:
I think the hum cables just do the same thing for many more dollars. My box took care all of that for $18. Before that it was completely unusable in the 4CM.
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Cool..that box would be really useful for other systems that don't have humbuster style outputs
 
Luca9583 said:
Cool..that box would be really useful for other systems that don't have humbuster style outputs
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I use it for everything that makes crazy noise and everytime makes everything, and I mean everything quiet. I got it originally for my Line6 M13 that I use in all my amps the 4CM and it was super crazy noise. Throw a hum eliminator box in the mix and all gone. I've never found a situation where I got a bunch of crazy noise it didn't fix. Also, I use it in between my AXEFX out and my FXRETURN on my amps when I was using there power sections. It was total noise without it and complete silence when I plugged it in.
 
I am using the 4CM with a Splawn QR and had a slight hiss which I eliminated with a EBTech hum eliminator. I also use trs and ts cables in this setup. Splawn has true serial effects loops which work great with 4CM. The parallel loops on other amps are sometimes an issue if you can't get 100% mix (serial). I had issues with my triple recto and would use a line level shifter because the loop was to hot. I'm a previous gsystem user and have read Lairds white paper (mentioned) good information.
 
I just took my whole rig apart today. The 4CM was just way too noisy. Now I'm using the Axe II in the loop of my Suhr PT100 for FX. Sounds great. I'm also using it on its own thru a QSC K12. That sounds killer as well.
 
I'm still going on record and telling everyone if you don't own a hum eliminator ground loop breaker box you need to buy one. Most of the problems I have read in this post I know would disappear I you added the breaker box. Even amps and preamps with the ground switches will usually do nothing.
 
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