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Anybody else noticing a few db less for cleans with the II's vs the I's?

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
Thanks for the input into this thread guys.

But has anybody out there actually taken the time to load my Preset into their II and try it out?

I highly doubt that there is anything wrong with my equipment, the way it's set up, or the way the Preset is constructed.

The only problem is that, in my experience, this type of hyper-clean dark jazz tone requires much more headroom than pretty much any other type of tone you can coax out of an amplifier if you want it quite loud and still completely clean.
E.g. When using this type of tone with real tube amps I typically need in excess of 100 watts.

I've already stated that yes I can drive the 2B into clipping if I use the loudest possible sound from this guitar (treble pickup cranked w/loud strummed chords) while using this Preset.
Since I've got the Preset set up to not clip the Axe's Output when making that same sound from that guitar, we can deduce that the Axe's maximum output before clipping *is* indeed higher than the 2B's maximum input before clipping.
So, electronically, everything is fine.

But I still need more level sometimes when playing with this type of tone.
As I said earlier, I'll probably just boost the level of the Amp Block in this Preset a bit anyway because I'll probably never use it with the treble pickup played that loud and when I do use the neck pickup it's usually attenuated a bit both by the tone control being rolled back as well as the volume control also being rolled back a bit.
So I'm unlikely to clip either the Axe or the 2B when actually playing with this Preset the way that I'll actually be playing.
I'm kinda being anal by setting the level of this Preset according to the max level possible from my bridge pickup, but it does seem to be the "correct" way to set the level ultimately so that it will never clip the Axe's Outs.

Either that or I'll need a more powerful power amp.

I want to thank Cliff for chiming in on this thread.
It's interesting to know that factoid that the II actually has a couple of dB more level on hand than the Ultra.
I haven't tried all of the II's clean Amp Types yet for this type of tone. Maybe what I'm experiencing, as far as noticing a bit less clean headroom available on the II, is due to the fact that I had been using a USA Clean Amp Type for this on the Ultra while on the II (at the moment) I'm using a Doubleverb Amp Type.
Maybe there's something else going on with my A/B testing scheme that's giving my the wrong impression.
And as I said before the difference in level between the G1's and the G2's is quite subtle anyway, it's just that with this tone I happen to need as much level as I can get.
 

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
Why not flip the usage of the outputs. Run Out 2 to FOH (thru a direct box to balance it) and run Out 1 (XLR) to the Bryston giving you 6db more gain being balanced. The FOH feed doesn't need the extra gain - just needs to be balanced for the distance and convenient input into the snake.

Keith
Yeah.
That's my 3rd option and one that I will look into as soon as I get a chance.
 

Rex

Legend!
...has anybody out there actually taken the time to load my Preset into their II and try it out?
Yes, I have. Like tlainhart, I didn't get any output from your preset. Several of the blocks (including some bypassed ones) were blocking the signal. I had to wrap shunts around some of the bypassed blocks, and remove the external controller sectin on the Vol block, to get sound. I think global blocks are part of the reason that the preset doesn't translate well to other systems, but I didn't dig into it.

Once I had sound out of the preset (nice tone, by the way), I cranked the Vol block up to 10 and played it through the fairly hot humbuckers on my Ibanez 540S. I had 6 dB of headroom left on the Axe-FX Output 1. If that Vol setting is representative of what you get when you rock your expression pedal all the way, then there's plenty of level to drive your power amp, as you noted.


The only problem is that, in my experience, this type of hyper-clean dark jazz tone requires much more headroom than pretty much any other type of tone you can coax out of an amplifier if you want it quite loud and still completely clean.
+1. The cleaner the tone, the lower the apparent volume before clipping, and the more headroom you need.


...Either that or I'll need a more powerful power amp.
Yep. That's the bottom line.
 

Kruegmeister

Inspired
Don't know about the I vs II.
But in General I have Noticed the CAB's are set to have a Low Cut-Off at 20-30 Hz.
This is way too low, especially if you are in a Mix with Bass and Drums.
I raise most my Patches to around 125Hz for the Cabinet Low Cut-Off, It doesn't Kill the Sound or Crunch or Chunck.
It does make it sit in the Mix better and has stopped a few of my Clean Patches from Clipping.

Something to Try...
 

chris

Legend!
woah yeah i'm having trouble getting sound out too. your Compressor has External 3 attached to the Bypass mode... do you actually use this?

wow something is REALLY funky with this preset... i get zero sound even unlinking all global blocks, and taking off all the modifiers (compressor bypass mode, wah, volume). i add a full row of shunts above or below and i get sound. i tried linking to the existing row one by one, and then the Level of certain blocks all of a sudden turn all the way down to -80! but even then, manually turning the Level of the Cab block, for example, at +7db or so the level is VERY quiet.

somethin's wrong here!

ok... back to figuring this thing out

ok dang, when i unlink from the axe fx, all the parameters turn all the way down... like, EVERYTHING. so that's not a good way to figure this out.

ok woah woah woah, when i adjust any parameter in any block... every thing in that block turns all the way down... wtf is going on!?@#! <---- on axe edit... when i load the patch then look on the axe itself, everything is already all the way down.

i'm stumped.
 
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joegold

Fractal Fanatic
I should have mentioned the controllers I use in my Presets, especially the Vol Block being controlled by External 1.
Sorry 'bout that.
To hear audio w/o bypassing the Volume Block just adjust the Ext Cont 1 Init Value on the 3rd I/O Page to 100%.

Yes, I have Ext controller 3 set to control the Compressor Block.
Doing so allows me to use an IA switch on my FCB 1010 (w/UnO) to turn the Comp Block on in one Preset then switch to another Preset while the Compressor Block in the new Preset remains active.
I have UnO set up so the led on the switch remains active too.
Works like a charm.
It's almost just like having a compressor pedal in front of the Axe's input.

Can't speak to all the other problems that chrisallen8888 talks about above.
Probably related to Global Blocks.

I have not been able yet to find any time to learn about how Axe-Edit handles the Global Blocks in the II.
I'm just glad they're mentioned at all in Axe-Edit.
Working with Global Amps in the Ultra was drag, especially when using earlier versions of Axe-Edit.
 

chris

Legend!
i found all the controllers, but it's so weird, when i adjust anything, all the values suddenly jump to zero for that entire block... so i really can't try your preset out.

could you make another copy, unlink all the global blocks and then upload the patch? maybe that'll do it?
 

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
i found all the controllers, but it's so weird, when i adjust anything, all the values suddenly jump to zero for that entire block... so i really can't try your preset out.

could you make another copy, unlink all the global blocks and then upload the patch? maybe that'll do it?
Sorry. No time for that.
I'm getting ready for a musical theatre show (Ragtime) that starts rehearsals next week.
All acoustic.
Banjitar (don't laugh), mandolin and acoustic guitar.
Won't have much time to play with my II.

At any rate, at least one other guy in this thread has been able to load my preset and has been able to see what I'm talking about.
So there's really not need to keep this going.

Just Bypass every block except the Amp Block the Cab Block and the Reverb Block and you should be able to hear what I'm hearing and experience what I'm experiencing.
The Axe is fine.
I just need more power or a different Layout; with Out 2 using the Cab Block for the FOH feed via a direct box and me using Out 1 via the XLR's for my stage rig (the XLR outs are 6dB hotter than the 1/4" outs) , sans Cab Block.
 
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