Anybody else do gigs without miking or going direct to FOH?

B

bjjp2

Power User
(I also posted this on TGP)
Seems like every post I read about live sound involves either miking or sending signals direct to FOH (through an Axe-fx, pod or the like) for a sound man to manipulate.

My cover band has played all kinds of rooms and now regularly plays one that I'd call pretty big for a bar/club. But none of the places we play (i.e. bars) ever have a sound man. Also, the singer in our band is for some reason against miking the guitars. So we have vox and keyboards running to FOH and all the rest just cranked up.

Even if we did mike the guitars and/or send signals to FOH (I have an Axe-Fx), since we run the mixer from on the stage I don't know who would make sure we have a proper mix in any event. I guess the singer going out into the crowd with his wireless mike and then coming back on stage to fiddle with the knobs.

All of this means if I want to use my Axe-fx I really have to use it like an alternative to an amp i.e. through a head and cabinet (which sounds great by the way) but not direct to FOH.

Does anybody else do gigs this way or is it just me? Maybe it's just the fact that we do covers and the bars we play, but where are all these sound men I keep reading about?

Anybody here use Axe-fx into head and cab and just crank it up without miking or going to FOH?
 
i play a few bars with no soundman and i go direct more than not. get a friend to adjust the levels or get your singer to help get the band sounding good and then switch with him and set his levels to the rest of the band. there is no reason for guitars not to be mic'd or for you to go direct if you want to. it will sound much better.

also sounds like your singer needs to put in his place. lol
 
Used to - in the old days, and spent more time wandering around off-stage trying to make sure we sounded good than we did in concentrating on playing - LOL. In all truth (IMHO), despite what you may hear from your audience or others, running sound from stage is seldom effective and NOT well done by most bands. There are exceptions, but I've not heard many of them. Given the nature of clubs/bars, you simply cannot keep up with the changing sound dynamics from the stage. It's very difficult to do.

So we don't do that. We now have our own PA/soundguy and it/him goes where we do. That way, we know exactly what to expect (PA-wise) for each gig. We also rent to/run sound for other bands with our PA, so we've recouped most of the $$. We generally do NOT use house PA (most don't have them anyway) and those that do tend to be big/expensive, so we go with theirs.
 
I almost never play gigs/concerts where I can go through the FOH. The volume level is not so high so half the band is playing without amplification.
I am quite sure you can find a way to use the axe like this too. My setup right now is a bit improvised but it works quite ok, it probably does not
matter if you use FRFR or Power Amp/Cab.

Jens
 
We do a lot of benefit concerts, indoors and out. No soundman. I use the Axe into a FBT Verve 12ma as the backline and its great. The Verve can keep up with my LOUD drummer, bass, keyboard player, and 2 singers.
The only issue I sometimes run into is dispersion - where I position my Verve, its usually on the right side of the drummer on an amp stand, the guitar is louder when you're in front of the band but less so as you move to the left. I could always get a second Verve, but don't want to carry one more piece of equipment around, especially to a free show. One thought I have is to run a small amount of signal into our PA, which is a Mackie into 2 JBL EON 15s.
 
Slightly differing opinion; if you have any instruments going through FOH/PA and not the others, you will have an uneven sound quality in any venue. - most importantly with keys and guitars. Bass will carry and isn't necessary to go direct or mic up unless you are in a large venue; drums follow suit to bass, unless you need the snare and bass drum to carry better.

We have had keys going through the pa since our keys player doesnt have a keyboard amp for some time and he uses the monitor system to hear himself; what I found is that without the guitars also going throught the pa also (2 players) even if just slightly, you will get that un-eveness I'm talking about which is clearly evident from the audiences pov. Many times what happened is the keys are too low or too high compared to the backline used by the guitars. If you take the time to get used to the mix settings that you require, you can run sound from the stage by a bit of a trial and error scenario, but you can get there..... The only problem that we've experienced (with a sub mind you) is that if you are ever in a loudness war, you will have issues. This is one of the reasons I like the Fractal's technology in that what you hear from the stage, is what you expect out front. I have had too many issues with Line 6 technology thinking I had it dialed to walk out with a wireless and hear mud or ear-piercing bad tone. no mas!!
 
bjjp2 said:
(I also posted this on TGP)
Seems like every post I read about live sound involves either miking or sending signals direct to FOH (through an Axe-fx, pod or the like) for a sound man to manipulate.

My cover band has played all kinds of rooms and now regularly plays one that I'd call pretty big for a bar/club. But none of the places we play (i.e. bars) ever have a sound man. Also, the singer in our band is for some reason against miking the guitars. So we have vox and keyboards running to FOH and all the rest just cranked up.

Even if we did mike the guitars and/or send signals to FOH (I have an Axe-Fx), since we run the mixer from on the stage I don't know who would make sure we have a proper mix in any event. I guess the singer going out into the crowd with his wireless mike and then coming back on stage to fiddle with the knobs.

All of this means if I want to use my Axe-fx I really have to use it like an alternative to an amp i.e. through a head and cabinet (which sounds great by the way) but not direct to FOH.

Does anybody else do gigs this way or is it just me? Maybe it's just the fact that we do covers and the bars we play, but where are all these sound men I keep reading about?

Anybody here use Axe-fx into head and cab and just crank it up without miking or going to FOH?
Click to expand...
I play 80+ gigs like this every year where it's get in, get out, get paid. No techs, only vocals and horns (often it's a 7 pc band) in FOH. My average setup time is about 4 minutes. I'm always shocked at how good my guitar sounds when I get out in the room with someone sitting in or the occasional wireless setup. I do have an IR on all of my live presets that I feel sounds similar to my cab setup (ownhammer EVM Thiele) if a leader wants me to send a send to the FOH, or for other gigs where there is a tech.

Use the Axe how it works for you and don't sweat the rest!
 
I've run both ways, and for us - the direct route seems to work. I put a qsc K12 (or 2, or k8's - depends on the venue, my back, and what car I take) for my monitor, and run the axe direct. I tried this with line 6 stuff also, but it never cut through. I have not had this issue with the axe. It's hard to explain, but even with the largest of PAs, it was always hard to get it to settle in the mix. It's a different feeling at first, but it seems to help me focus on my sound.

Try to match the EQ voicing for your monitor and the FOH system...

We own our own PA, and hooking the axe up to the Yamaha 01V board is also an advantage. I can recall programs (songs or sounds) for all the instruments (along with EQ curves, etc) using the MFC-101 and MIDI.

As for the singer not miking guitars, you should have a talk with him. The balance is key... but for fullness I would always mic guitars for control. The axe has really controlled our stage volume if that is part of his concern.
 
Two things.
We've started using a couple of powered Mackie Mains Cabs on the side of the stage as "side fill" so we're always hearing what the crowd is hearing. Makes a world of difference...just be aware of placement and adjust the location of your mics accordingly.

The answer to your orignal question that titled the thread.
Yes, I stopped carrying that heavy assed Marshall cab/head around a year ago. Guitar/Wireless/Ultra -->Snake.
The first thing you're going to have to do is assign cab sims to all the patches (either split the signal chain to go around the cabs, which you can turn on/off with a midi controller) or use a mixer and send the cabs signal to output 1 (XLR) and the routed around cabs signal to out 2 (1/4").

I've discovered that the learning curve on getting the sound you really want requires a LOT...and if there was a font size big enough, I'd really emphasize A LOT...of time playing with cab types, mics, mic placement (air) and then an EQ at the back end to further tailor it....on the upside...the payoff is incredible.
 
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