• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Any Singers.... Or Wanna-Be Singers Here?

la noise

Power User
Just curious if there are any other folks who also sing, or try to sing.

Lead? Backgrounds? Harmony? Karaoke after 4 shots of Jager? :)

Be kind of cool to share/pool resources on singing, or how to sing (better), or
maybe even how to just STFU entirely and not get the entire neighborhood of
dogs howling in unison. ;)

Edit: The only threads I found on singing were rants about "lead singers." This is not that. :)
 
I can chime in about this....heck, I could write many pages on this subject. I started learning to sing as an adult (40ish). No prior training, no skill, no natural ability, etc. I really started from zero. I've spent a lot of time and effort with different books, methods, teachers. It's been a long, slow, often frustrating process, but I enjoy the journey and value whatever progress I make.

As far as resources, I find most of it frustrating. Many resources seem to assume a certain level that I wasn't at, or they follow a blueprint that focuses on things that have no relationship to my weaknesses and needs. (Kind of like a guitar "method" that shows you pentatonic scale diagrams and says "Eric Clapton uses these scales") For this reason, if your budget allows it, I recommend some in person lessons with a good teacher. The trick is to try teachers until someone clicks with you. This is hard to do. I took several group classes and private lessons with different teachers, and most of them didn't really help me. In retrospect, some hurt my progress.

A good teacher should zero in quickly and be able to articulate what you are missing, not just apply chapter one of some book without regard to you. As an example, many teachers I had focused on all sorts of breathing exercises. When I started with the teacher that really helped me, on the first day she said, "nah, you can breathe fine, you're dropping the soft palate and pulling your tongue back". And then two years of tons of different exercises and songs followed, with the exercises changing constantly as I got one part working and broke something else.

Vocal instructors are expensive (think $100/hour), but if you can find a good one, even a few lesson will be super helpful.

That said, I found some materials from Susan Anders helpful:
https://susananders.com/home


And the great teacher I had is here:
https://tricialeines.com/

(As an aside, once I started working hard on singing, my guitar playing improved a lot. Singing is the ultimate ear training.)

Cheers!
 

Griff_NZ

Inspired
Check out Daniel Formica on YT. He's one of the best for rock vocals.
Venderas Raise Your Voice book is good too for correct technique.
 

RevDrucifer

Power User
Yeah, I've been singing for the last 20 years and actually didn't even play guitar in the last 3 bands I was in, I was just singing.

For whatever time/passion I put into playing guitar, I did 10x as much for singing. Mostly because I had to in order for anything less than absolute dogshit to fall out of my mouth. It was rough for a while.....and that's an understatement. Didn't help that I had my goals set pretty high, growing up on guys like Layne Staley, Mike Patton, Devin Townsend, Geoff Tate and Chris Cornell. Then in my late teens I got into the screaming stuff and wanted to get that under my belt as well.

It's hard for me to give tips because I just don't know enough of the biology to properly discuss it all. People used to ask me how I scream all the time and the best I could come up with is "Pretend you got a golf ball in the back of your throat and you're trying to push it through your soft palate.". The one way I can be helpful is I can certainly hear when someone is pushing from the wrong place as a result of me doing it for so damn long. I had to take a year off at one point and completely re-learn how to sing/scream because I just wrecked my voice.

I'm all over the place as far as what I go for when I sing, but here's a couple tunes. This is one I'm in the process of tightening up now, I wrote/recorded/played all this myself, the demo vocals are on it still, but it gets the point across. This is a mellow one, just a pinch of a scream on one word in a specific spot.



The full on screaming thing (another one of my solo tunes I pulled out me bung for a weekly songwriting challenge)


And a mix of both, this one is all over the place....Alice In Chains to King Diamond/Devin Townsend to Lamb Of God
 
Last edited:

TG3K

Power User
I have a very good ear for pitch, and it informs me that my singing sucks. I have a hard time hitting (and holding) pitches reliably. In my 20s I was the primary backup singer in my band, and even sang lead on a few songs. My natural voice range was pretty limited, although I had a decent falsetto for high harmony parts. Still, I cringe when I hear recordings of the band from that era. Now, many years (and far too many packs of cigarettes) later, I have even less range and almost no falsetto strength. I only sing when I absolutely have to in my current band. I can stink up a bar with my guitar playing alone...I don't need my voice to make things even worse, lol.
 

jefferski

Fractal Fanatic
I used to sing... I was a decent harmony singer, and I could do a passable job singing lead in solo acoustic / small groups... i.e. playing stuff like CSNY, James Taylor, etc in coffee houses... but I'm definitely not a front man to carry a rock band. I would do the occasional song to give the lead singer a break but that's it in a rock context.

Unfortunately about 10 years ago something changed and any time I sing, even just a little bit, I totally trash my throat for days. I don't mean "rock singer who just belted out ACDC in a smoky bar for 4 hours" sore... I mean "sang along with the radio for half a verse and now I have a sore throat until Wednesday..." :mad: And I've completely lost my falsetto. :(
 

la noise

Power User
I can chime in about this....heck, I could write many pages on this subject. I started learning to sing as an adult (40ish). No prior training, no skill, no natural ability, etc. I really started from zero. I've spent a lot of time and effort with different books, methods, teachers. It's been a long, slow, often frustrating process, but I enjoy the journey and value whatever progress I make.

As far as resources, I find most of it frustrating. Many resources seem to assume a certain level that I wasn't at, or they follow a blueprint that focuses on things that have no relationship to my weaknesses and needs. (Kind of like a guitar "method" that shows you pentatonic scale diagrams and says "Eric Clapton uses these scales") For this reason, if your budget allows it, I recommend some in person lessons with a good teacher. The trick is to try teachers until someone clicks with you. This is hard to do. I took several group classes and private lessons with different teachers, and most of them didn't really help me. In retrospect, some hurt my progress.

A good teacher should zero in quickly and be able to articulate what you are missing, not just apply chapter one of some book without regard to you. As an example, many teachers I had focused on all sorts of breathing exercises. When I started with the teacher that really helped me, on the first day she said, "nah, you can breathe fine, you're dropping the soft palate and pulling your tongue back". And then two years of tons of different exercises and songs followed, with the exercises changing constantly as I got one part working and broke something else.

Vocal instructors are expensive (think $100/hour), but if you can find a good one, even a few lesson will be super helpful.

That said, I found some materials from Susan Anders helpful:
https://susananders.com/home


And the great teacher I had is here:
https://tricialeines.com/

(As an aside, once I started working hard on singing, my guitar playing improved a lot. Singing is the ultimate ear training.)

Cheers!
Awesome post. Thank you! :)
 

la noise

Power User
Dude! WTF? Not sure what to write to here. First listen as I am typing now,
and this hits me with all of that space and suspense of a Mark Lanegan
track in the beginning..... but with Chester Bennington jumping in on the chorus.

Dig it. A lot.

Impressive. :)
 
Last edited:

la noise

Power User
Yeah, I've been singing for the last 20 years and actually didn't even play guitar in the last 3 bands I was in, I was just singing.

For whatever time/passion I put into playing guitar, I did 10x as much for singing. Mostly because I had to in order for anything less than absolute dogshit to fall out of my mouth. It was rough for a while.....and that's an understatement. Didn't help that I had my goals set pretty high, growing up on guys like Layne Staley, Mike Patton, Devin Townsend, Geoff Tate and Chris Cornell. Then in my late teens I got into the screaming stuff and wanted to get that under my belt as well.

It's hard for me to give tips because I just don't know enough of the biology to properly discuss it all. People used to ask me how I scream all the time and the best I could come up with is "Pretend you got a golf ball in the back of your throat and you're trying to push it through your soft palate.". The one way I can be helpful is I can certainly hear when someone is pushing from the wrong place as a result of me doing it for so damn long. I had to take a year off at one point and completely re-learn how to sing/scream because I just wrecked my voice.

I'm all over the place as far as what I go for when I sing, but here's a couple tunes. This is one I'm in the process of tightening up now, I wrote/recorded/played all this myself, the demo vocals are on it still, but it gets the point across. This is a mellow one, just a pinch of a scream on one word in a specific spot.



The full on screaming thing (another one of my solo tunes I pulled out me bung for a weekly songwriting challenge)


And a mix of both, this one is all over the place....Alice In Chains to King Diamond/Devin Townsend to Lamb Of God

Yup, I like you, Rev, but you are kind of pissing me off right now.

Should have never started this damn thread! ;)

For real, and once again, What the actual F**k!!??
 

warlockII

Power User
I have to 2nd the "get a vocal teacher" that meshes with what you want to accomplish. Just a few lessons made a HUGE difference in my VERY limited abilities.
 
Yeah, I've been singing for the last 20 years and actually didn't even play guitar in the last 3 bands I was in, I was just singing.

For whatever time/passion I put into playing guitar, I did 10x as much for singing. Mostly because I had to in order for anything less than absolute dogshit to fall out of my mouth. It was rough for a while.....and that's an understatement. Didn't help that I had my goals set pretty high, growing up on guys like Layne Staley, Mike Patton, Devin Townsend, Geoff Tate and Chris Cornell. Then in my late teens I got into the screaming stuff and wanted to get that under my belt as well.

It's hard for me to give tips because I just don't know enough of the biology to properly discuss it all. People used to ask me how I scream all the time and the best I could come up with is "Pretend you got a golf ball in the back of your throat and you're trying to push it through your soft palate.". The one way I can be helpful is I can certainly hear when someone is pushing from the wrong place as a result of me doing it for so damn long. I had to take a year off at one point and completely re-learn how to sing/scream because I just wrecked my voice.

I'm all over the place as far as what I go for when I sing, but here's a couple tunes. This is one I'm in the process of tightening up now, I wrote/recorded/played all this myself, the demo vocals are on it still, but it gets the point across. This is a mellow one, just a pinch of a scream on one word in a specific spot.



The full on screaming thing (another one of my solo tunes I pulled out me bung for a weekly songwriting challenge)


And a mix of both, this one is all over the place....Alice In Chains to King Diamond/Devin Townsend to Lamb Of God
Whew, that's some power!

I really dig the visualization :
"Pretend you got a golf ball in the back of your throat and you're trying to push it through your soft palate."
I find singing all about what you feel inside, and everybody senses and visualizes things differently, which I think is why it's so darn hard to explain and give instruction. This is a good visual I hadn't heard before!
 

dpeterson

Axe-Master
I sing backups in every band I play in, currently an AIC tribute, and a Grunge Tribute type thing. I've always just had a good ear for harmonies, I put that down to the stuff I listened to growing up with a lot of vocals. Practice mainly in my car, never had any training. Have often thought about getting training, but i'm getting by.
 

RevDrucifer

Power User
Whew, that's some power!

I really dig the visualization :
"Pretend you got a golf ball in the back of your throat and you're trying to push it through your soft palate."
I find singing all about what you feel inside, and everybody senses and visualizes things differently, which I think is why it's so darn hard to explain and give instruction. This is a good visual I hadn't heard before!

It’s definitely about what you feel inside, which is why that screaming thing was so hard for me to figure out. I wanted to scream because I was pissed off about stuff, when the actual technique doesn’t exactly lend itself to excising demons by physically screaming them out of you. :D It’s a little louder than speaking volume at it‘s loudest, but generally stays right around there.

And even clean singing or the gritty stuff, took me a long time to realize how I can turn the fry on and off without ‘clamping down’ on my throat to make it happen. Once I learned to truly relax my vocal cords, that grit just comes out on it’s own and I don’t need to tell myself to do it anymore.

Ultimately, it’s all been a lot of work to ensure that when I do open my mouth to sing, it’s a direct output of those feelings. Technique makes it hard, especially when you’re really getting into something and want to just go apeshit with it, it’s a lot of self-restraint!
 

BBN

Fractal Fanatic
Been singing lead vocals for 20+ years. Some bands, I'm just the singer.
My recommendation to anyone (wish I did this earlier) - get a coach.

My coach for the past 10+ years has been Mark Baxter. He's absolutely amazing.
 

la noise

Power User
It’s definitely about what you feel inside, which is why that screaming thing was so hard for me to figure out. I wanted to scream because I was pissed off about stuff, when the actual technique doesn’t exactly lend itself to excising demons by physically screaming them out of you. :D It’s a little louder than speaking volume at it‘s loudest, but generally stays right around there.

And even clean singing or the gritty stuff, took me a long time to realize how I can turn the fry on and off without ‘clamping down’ on my throat to make it happen. Once I learned to truly relax my vocal cords, that grit just comes out on it’s own and I don’t need to tell myself to do it anymore.

Ultimately, it’s all been a lot of work to ensure that when I do open my mouth to sing, it’s a direct output of those feelings. Technique makes it hard, especially when you’re really getting into something and want to just go apeshit with it, it’s a lot of self-restraint!

So, not unlike guitar or playing drums tension is the enemy?
 
Top Bottom