Any Kemper Gurus? Need some recording help.

mwd

mwd

Power User
Referencing this video:



My objective is to record my buddies Kemper separating the effects from the ‘amp’.

This seems easy to do via the above video on a 4 track basis like this:


4 Track
Main Out L to In 1 (Audio Interface)
Main Out R to In 2 (Audio Interface)
Monitor Out to In 3
Direct Out to In 4

Press Output and Navigate to Page 1
Main Output = Delay/Reverb Wet
Monitor Output = Stack
Direct Out = Analog

Now I can also use a 6 track method like this:
Same as above but SPDIF to in on (Audio Interface)

Press Output and Navigate to Page 1
Main Output = Delay/Reverb Wet
Monitor Output = Mod Left
Direct Out = Mod Right
SPDIF = guitar/stack

Being a Fractal guy I am confused by Kemper terms. Obviously Wet L/R is easy enough. I get that Stack means ‘amp’ (?) and on one instruction ‘Analog’ seems to mean dry signal whereas in the other method ‘guitar’ seems to mean dry signal.

In the second method I am confused as to what Mod Left and Right mean.

I mainly want the stereo sound he is getting now but with the Amp separated from the effects.

Any help/explanation would be appreciated.
 
It's actually very hard to explain without writing an essay if you've not had hands on experience with the Kemper's 'Rig' sections and output routing options ...

Where you've quoted 'Direct Out = Analog' in the 4 Output method should actually read Direct Out = 'Git Analog'

This simply means the raw guitar signal will be routed to the 'Direct' mono output round the back of the Kemper - the DI track for re-amping in that particular 4 output setup.

The 'Stack' is the section containing the Amp and Cab

Mod L and Mod R are the outputs of the stereo Modulation type FX from the Effects section. This 'Effects' section is post Stack and basically consists of a stereo Mod FX and a stereo Delay or Reverb or a stereo group of Delay and Reverb combined.

In the 6 output method, the 'Direct' output on the Kemper is required to output a different source so the raw DI guitar signal needs routed to one of the 2 channels in the SPDIF - in the example's case this means the 'Git/Stack' option was selected - so the raw di goes in one channel and the Stack (which is everything in the preset up to the Cab) goes to the other SPDIF channel
 
Much appreciated. Still one thing unclear for me. In the 6 output method. 1 and 2 are Delay/Reverb and you say Mod L & R are also Delay/Reverb groups? Why 4 outputs for FX?

I am noticing that the Mod L/R at 5:36 and the S/PDIF Stack setting at 5:58 sound the same to me.
 
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mwd said:
Still one thing unclear for me. In the 6 output method. 1 and 2 are Delay/Reverb and you say Mod L & R are also Delay/Reverb groups? Why 4 outputs for FX?
Click to expand...

I'll try and explain - the Kemper is pretty convoluted compared to the AxeFX when it comes to routing ... painfully so IMO.

Basically it's all down to having a restricted amount of analogue outputs to work with.

There are 3 main sections in the Kemper that make up a 'Rig' - the signal path runs sequentially via 1-2-3

1st Section is the 'Stomps' - for up to 4 mono fx pedals that you'd put in front of an amp

2nd Section is the 'Stack' - the Amp and Cab

3rd Section is the 'Effects' - here you can have up to 4 stereo FX (or mono if you want) - 'X' and 'MOD' are joined together but for simplicity I will just use the 3 names used in the video - MOD, DLY and finally REV

MOD is just for a stereo capable Modulation FX

DLY is a stereo capable Delay

REV is you guessed it ... a stereo capable Reverb

The kicker is that the Kemper has less analogue outputs to use than the AxeFX - basically it has

Main Out L and R which can be a stereo pair or 2 mono outs

Monitor Out - a mono output

Direct Out - a mono output

So that's only 4 analogue outs available to send to your audio interface - a stereo pair and 2 monos

The KPA allows you to assign different things to each output.

When it comes to the 'Effects' section and to get round the lack of multiple stereo outputs, the Kemper's options to assigning stereo things to outputs break things down to MOD L and MOD R and the 'combined' DLY and REV Wet. Recording this Dly/Rev wet separately allows you to mix it back in with the MOD tracks or dry 'Stack' recording later on your DAW

The 'Dly/Rev Wet' is (normally) a stereo pairing and it is not able to be split into separate L/R and therefore can only be assigned to the stereo Main Output pair of outs

The stereo MOD FX can be split into MOD L and MOD R - so you can assign these separately to the remaining 2 mono outputs - thus maintaining a stereo pair which you can record to your DAW as 2 tracks - or more likely a stereo track.

Now - just to confuse things - that MOD L and MOD R also likely contains some or all of the Stack signal mixed in (series type FX) - so that's why it's able to be kept separate from the Dly/Rev Wet (parallel type FX).

You then have the option to individually send the mono guitar DI and the mono dry Stack to the S/PDIF on it's separate channels

And just to confuse yet again the 'Stack' output signal is actually a combination of the 'Stomps' and 'Stack'!

mwd said:
I am noticing that the Mod L/R at 5:36 and the S/PDIF Stack setting at 5:58 sound the same to me.
Click to expand...
In the video I can't see what FX he is using in his 'MOD' - but it might be just a Stereo Widening effect or stereo Micro Pitch to spread the sound over the stereo field - so that's possibly why the isolated outputs of MOD L and MOD R sounds similar to the dry stack sound later.

So as the video states - the 'Monster' setup (6 outs) means you have

The Dly and Rev combined in stereo (2 outs)

The MOD L and MOD R on separate outs (2 outs)

The DI guitar (left side of SPDIF)

The Mono Stomp FX and Stack (right side of SPDIF)

Total of 6 outs to send to your Audio Interface/DAW and re-mix or re-amp.

Believe me - after poking about on the KPA, coming back to the AxeFX's routing, outputs and having it's in-built USB Audio Interface is a joy!
 
Holy Smoke. So for the moment I am not interested in the DI signal.

To be sure am I understanding I could:

1. Use method 1 and do Delay/Reverb out, in stereo, from Main Out and Use Monitor Out to get the dry amp sound in mono

or

2. Use method 2 and get Delay/Reverb out in stereo from Main Out and use Direct Out Mod L and Monitor Out Mod R, on 2 stereo tracks and be able to achieve the same sound I get just coming out the Main Out in regular mode. But I would be in a separated format?

All I want to do is separate, reverb and delay, from everything else.

Again... crazy appreciated.
 
If the Kemper 'Rig' you want to record has just

a) mono 'stomps' (stomps are optional but if any active then they constitute part of the overall 'Stack' output signal),

b) amp and cab

c) Stereo Delay and Reverb

Then method 1 should work for you

However if there's anything loaded into the 'X' and/or 'MOD' in the 'Effects' section that affects the Amp & Cab signal in a way you want to keep when recording then you'd be as well to do Method 2 but could optionally omit the SPDIF assignments. This means your 'Stack' becomes MOD L and MOD R

I think the 6 output method is demonstrated because it gives you maximum post processing options once loaded into the DAW without needing to re-record anything

EG Lets say you changed your mind about the Modulation FX applied post amp and cab which when combined makes the MOD L and MOD R signal and wanted to put your own FX on the mono dry Amp & Cab via a Plugin or external FX, then you'd have that mono dry Amp/Cab recorded to a DAW track already via SPDIF

However you'd probably need to also discard the original Dly/Rev stereo track and re-apply those FX via plugin/external FX too because the original would have been Dly/Rev applied to the original MOD L/MOD R effected 'Stack'

So assuming the Kemper is only going to be around long enough to record the whole track once and then be gone leaving the rest to you to do on your DAW then the 6 output method could be beneficial as you'd have that dry Stomps/Amp/Cab track as backup to work with.

Or just re-amp the Guitar DI track via the AxeFX and make a decent job of it :)
 
Thanks. The more I read post #7 last night the more I understood I was still a bit off on the concept. We are capturing live jamming via X32 and Logic and unfortunately there is no S/PDIF so I think option 2 might be the ticket.

When you say:
maxdown said:
This means your 'Stack' becomes MOD L and MOD R
Click to expand...

My translation is I select MOD L and R (for mon and dir out) but that signal is a 'combo' of MOD + Stack. Correct?
 
Correct - that's the way I'd see it.

There's no option to segregate the MOD into a 'wet only' output - just a separate L and R to keep the stereo field if you've got stereo FX in 'X' and/or 'MOD' within the front panel Effects section.

If you have no FX assigned to X and MOD on the front panel then in the Output menu page 1 all you'd need to worry about is assigning the 'Delay/Rev Wet' to the Main Outs and assigning the 'Stack' to one of the other Mono outputs.

Sorry if this is confusing - it turns into a bit of a rabbit hole when trying to explain it all.
 
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