Any chance of an AmpFX in the near future?

Manny Fufish

Power User
I so wanted to go with the 'looking for some head' reference with this but I'll keep the subject clean... :)

I jumped on the Axe FX Standard out of the gate, went to the Ultra, went to the II as soon as it came out, and now I'll be picking up the II XL+ because hey, this is my favorite piece of gear on the planet. and I love gear!

So here is my question. I have been wanting an amp, head or combo, which I can use JUST like a standard amp (set it on top of a cab, plug it in, turn some knobs, and have at it). When I dial up a model, I would hope it sounds just like I plugged into that actual amp then into whatever cab I'm plugged into. I do this now with my Axe into a Mesa 2:90 into my collection of cabs (which is growing and growing these days) and have used a Matrix and other SS power sections in the past, but man, I just want to bring an amp and a cab to a gig and make it simple...

Here is the thing, when you plug a guitar into an amp, the sound that comes out the output into the speaker is what it is. Change guitars, change cabs, turn knobs, but if the speaker output signal matches the original amps output signal exactly, then that's the amp as far as I'm concerned... The idea of having this with the number of amps (or even a subset for gods sake) that are in the AxeFX keeps me chomping at the bit... I know other companies are putting out things like this now, but before I spend money elsewhere, I would love to know if Fractal is looking into this.

Can you imagine it?!

Thanks for all you do Fractal Team, you're at the top of your game gents!

UPDATE: From later in this thread but it helps set the stage of what I'm talking about. This is one approach I have found interesting:

The BOSS WAZA is an attempt at this, and I might cave in and buy one to try it out, but I feel Fractal could do it better:
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item...uAGs2Titeg4PMdQOFnVKbxiM9yaLk2XNU0BoChZnw_wcB

Tom Quayle (AxeFX player) demo's one in this video and he loves the thing:
 
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Gday manny,

Great idea. price, options, and configuration all become potential issues.

Let's say they make ampfx, and it's got a form factor like a fender twin. Switching power supply of course to save weight, stereo coaxial 12 inch speakers, 2 x 200 watt amps to power the woofers, and 2 x 100 watt amps to power the horn/tweeter drivers.

Package it up and it looks fantastic....hmmmmmm..... I was just starting to type out potential issues.... But overall, besides the price being closer to ten grand than four, it's a great unit (in my mind) ....but my mind can do that...

Wow.... What a unit for the gigging musician.

Thanks
Pauly



I so wanted to go with the 'looking for some head' reference with this but I'll keep the subject clean... :)

I jumped on the Axe FX Standard out of the gate, went to the Ultra, went to the II as soon as it came out, and now I'll be picking up the II XL+ because hey, this is my favorite piece of gear on the planet. and I love gear!

So here is my question. I have been wanting an amp, head or combo, which I can use JUST like a standard amp (set it on top of a cab, plug it in, turn some knobs, and have at it). When I dial up a model, I would hope it sounds just like I plugged into that actual amp then into whatever cab I'm plugged into. I do this now with my Axe into a Mesa 2:90 into my collection of cabs (which is growing and growing these days) and have used a Matrix and other SS power sections in the past, but man, I just want to bring an amp and a cab to a gig and make it simple...

Here is the thing, when you plug a guitar into an amp, the sound that comes out the output into the speaker is what it is. Change guitars, change cabs, turn knobs, but if the speaker output signal matches the original amps output signal exactly, then that's the amp as far as I'm concerned... The idea of having this with the number of amps (or even a subset for gods sake) that are in the AxeFX keeps me chomping at the bit... I know other companies are putting out things like this now, but before I spend money elsewhere, I would love to know if Fractal is looking into this.

Can you imagine it?!

Thanks for all you do Fractal Team, you're at the top of your game gents!
 
There was a mention on another thread of a new fractal product that involves real amps and honestly sounds like it's going to be awesome..

I'm sure Cliff will make the official announcement pretty soon.
 
Gday manny,

Great idea. price, options, and configuration all become potential issues.

Let's say they make ampfx, and it's got a form factor like a fender twin. Switching power supply of course to save weight, stereo coaxial 12 inch speakers, 2 x 200 watt amps to power the woofers, and 2 x 100 watt amps to power the horn/tweeter drivers.

Package it up and it looks fantastic....hmmmmmm..... I was just starting to type out potential issues.... But overall, besides the price being closer to ten grand than four, it's a great unit (in my mind) ....but my mind can do that...

Wow.... What a unit for the gigging musician.

Thanks
Pauly

I'm not even looking for FRFR. I would ideally like it to just be a head that I can sit on a cab and plug in just like any other head. It has a power section that's either Tube or SS but the key is it plugs into a cab and sounds like the real amp head would when plugged into that same cab. That's it... And then we all collect cabs, which might be the remaining legacy of the analog guitar amp. ;)
 
There was a mention on another thread of a new fractal product that involves real amps and honestly sounds like it's going to be awesome..

I'm sure Cliff will make the official announcement pretty soon.

REALLY???!!! I would LOVE to see that thread!!!
 
I did exactly that...with a Furman, Axe FX XL plus and a Matrix GT1000...bought the 4U rackmount case on Ebay for 100 and change. Has recessed spring loaded side handles too.
 
Sorry, I'm missing something. How is what you want different from putting your AxeFX and 2:90 into a 4U rack case?

Oh believe me I have had that. I had a rack with the Axe, Matrix, and a power conditioner but that's not the same as what I'm asking for due to the following:

1) First is a much lesser issue, but look at the size of the rack posted by MNG, it's huge. Also, not a really big deal, but if I go tube, such as the 2:90, it's heavy as hell so go solid state right? Well, if I go Solid State (Matrix), I can not get it to push like tubes. Play a funk groove with SS power and then switch to tube power and you will see that even after setting your power amp settings as recommend, the percussion and stabs don't hit you as they do in tube power. In A/B comparisons this stands out like a sore thumb. I went back and forth with another long term vet on this forum through long phone conversations and he even got Kevin from Ownhammer involved and everyone came away with SS is just not the same for the player. He has sense moved back to analog amps again.

2) I went through this in the 80's, during that period when racks (and big hair, and girls with big hair and big racks, back on topic...) were all the rage and something happens when you disconnect the pre-amp from the power amp in that fashion. I don't know what it is, but it was different, and the vast majority of players eventually moved away from rack systems and back to heads. Think of how diverse rack systems like this were. If you have roadies to carry them and keep everything up, that would be really useful right? Still, players moved away from them and back to standard heads. There is a reason for that.

3) Now here is my critical point on this. Do you know what the most crucial step is when building an amp? It's the tuning that happens at the end of the build. This is why you can build a clone that should sound exactly like the original on specs but it doesn't. Even the exact same parts are never going to be exactly the same, so the craftsman needs to tune the final product. That's why we all know their names. Someone can take the exact same parts as a Trainwreck and build it perfectly, but it took Ken Fisher and his skills to tune that amp and make it sound and react the way it does.That's the difference between a less then thousand dollar clone and a fifty thousand dollar Trainwreck. I have heard this from many builders and Cliff has commented on this in the past. The final tuning of the amp is the critical difference. This is my main point.
We have so many parameters in the AxeFX, which is great, don't get me wrong, but if you go with default settings, especially power section settings, run the rack out to a cab, do you believe it is going to sound exactly like the original amp plugged into the same cab? If you use a tube power section like my 2:90 that definitely colors as well so you're now further off. So tweak away right? We have a plethora of advanced settings for shaping tone. Well, I don't have the original amp to sync up to so I don't know exactly what it's supposed to sound like and I'm not shooting for 'my sound' here (well, I am actually but it's my sound using someone else's magical amp, not my 'home tweaked' amp) I'm going for that magical sound and feel that we all GAS for in these amazing amps. Exactly that, not my poorly adjusted best guess rendition.

4) Item 3 is where I think Fractal can best make this happen. In my initial post I mentioned how what comes out of the speaker outs is all that matters. I believe that Cliff does so much A/B comparison that HE can get the Axe to sound exactly like the original. In the AxeFX we tend to concentrate FRFR, and I LOVE that too, but that's different of course and what were the exact settings in the Axe for that comparison? I have no idea. However, if you limited the configuration options to only those of the standard amp, (i.e. you cannot set things beyond the scope of the original amp so every possible configuration is realistic to the original. People see limitations as restricting and a negative, but restricting can be a positive and in fact necessary, if they suite the goal) then the analysis can be done to ensure, that when set to the same physical parameters, the output coming from the output jack is a 1 to 1 match with the original amp.
Cliff does a lot of these comparisons today as we all know but once it's in our hands without the real amp next to us, we are shooting in the dark. With the AmpFX concept, you just can't get yourself in trouble because the amp only adjusts as the original, so the exact magic is retained and you can't/won't loose that. What is coming out the output jack is a realistic representation of that exact preamp and that exact power section working together harmoniously, with no coloring, to generate that output signal. Without factoring in IRs, it's a confined use case measurement of one signal from each device and when it matches it matches, no mic coloration of distances or angles, or other 'real world' factors to be concerned about.

I have officially made this post TLTR (Too Long To Read) for most on the forum, so it will likely be skipped or skimmed at best, but if you took the time to read it, congratulations, and I hope you found it an insight into what I and others I have talked to, have been searching for. Thank you! :)
 
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I thought the whole point of the Axe was to have the ability to model popular tube amps precisely and eliminate the need for them. I think many here do agree they can sound identical to the amp they model after. I personally have had several tube amps over the years and have not found what you describe, but I guess YMMV.
 
There was a mention on another thread of a new fractal product that involves real amps and honestly sounds like it's going to be awesome..

I'm sure Cliff will make the official announcement pretty soon.


It's a loadbox, but yes, I'm eager to see the form factor and it's capabilities.
 
I thought the whole point of the Axe was to have the ability to model popular tube amps precisely and eliminate the need for them. I think many here do agree they can sound identical to the amp they model after. I personally have had several tube amps over the years and have not found what you describe, but I guess YMMV.

I believe the AxeFX is the most superior piece of guitar equipment on the planet and you are correct, precise amp modeling is in the list of design intents. The AxeFX attempts to be everybody's everything (direct recording being my favorite and arguably at the forefront) however, I am also looking for a specific device with amp accuracy at the forefront. I believe the AxeFX core functionality when output to a guitar cab, could sound identical to the amps it models when approached as explained above. Please read item number 3 in my list once again, and then ask yourself, with today's approach, when going out to a standard guitar cab, how could it be exact? What we do get without question is a VERY accurate pre-amp modeler.

My suggested approach would be dedicated to doing one thing perfectly and with ease similarly to how the FX8 handles only effects, but handles them perfectly.
 
This is actually a great idea. I would be surprised if there isn't an amp manufacturer that would team up with Fractal to make it happen. The Axe emulates a lot of different amps but eventually most users end up using just a handful. Additionally, as with the Axe, it could have USB connectivity to allow virtually unlimited combinations of 2-4 channels with a simple MIDI controller to change channels or have complete control by connecting an MFC or "AX8 type" - basic - controller. Best of both worlds! Having the form factor of a head would cut down setup times at gigs and for some reduce the amount of gear to lug around. I also wonder if having a head version would sway some who like the traditional look of an amp. Addressing cost, the AX8 'brain' would be the most viable since it is, for the most part, a stripped down Axe intended for live use which would be the sole purpose for most potential buyers. An additional grand added (retail) for a good power amp wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
 
Cliff did say ages back what he had in mind for an Axe III and features included:
  • Larger and, maybe, colour screen
  • Amp like knobs underneath for easy editing and amp like control
  • Maybe a 3U size
  • A feedback mechanism that would read from the real physical speaker cab you attached it to so that the amp could respond to the speaker cab like a traditional valve amp does. This is the missing ingredient from the models that creates that valve amp feel and response. I think you can get close by fine tuning the speaker page in the amp block.
The RAC12 gives the amp like control and it is very easy to dial and tweak amps for different guitars and tones, but maybe an Axe III is closer than we think?
 
This is actually a great idea. I would be surprised if there isn't an amp manufacturer that would team up with Fractal to make it happen. The Axe emulates a lot of different amps but eventually most users end up using just a handful. Additionally, as with the Axe, it could have USB connectivity to allow virtually unlimited combinations of 2-4 channels with a simple MIDI controller to change channels or have complete control by connecting an MFC or "AX8 type" - basic - controller. Best of both worlds! Having the form factor of a head would cut down setup times at gigs and for some reduce the amount of gear to lug around. I also wonder if having a head version would sway some who like the traditional look of an amp. Addressing cost, the AX8 'brain' would be the most viable since it is, for the most part, a stripped down Axe intended for live use which would be the sole purpose for most potential buyers. An additional grand added (retail) for a good power amp wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

Welcome to the Pride! I have tried everything I have seen in the realm of this idea. Did you watch the Waza Craft demo I posted with Tom Quayle? That seems the current leading contender (have they finally done it with SS amplification?) and is at the AxeFX price point for the head. Line 6 did an interesting approach in their DT series, with Bogner building a power section that was physically configurable using all tube and analog components to provide a back end to their modeling pre-amps. It got you in the basic Vox, Marshall, Boogie, Fender power section and was okay when used as a power section for the AxeFX, but the accuracy was still not there just a ball park proximity. I also used to use Randall MTS stuff pre-Fractal, so I have the Randall RT2/50, which is a 2 channel power amp with channel 1 featuring 6L6's and channel featuring EL34's that gives you something similar, but again doesn't have the matched accuracy with the real head. I have of course used solid state heads too, such as the Matrix offering and if Solid State can eventually accurately emulate what tube power does, it's just not there yet. This is solely the opinion of those that have been on this journey with me of course, others are content with Solid State. Each player should A/B them themselves, and DEFINITELY try them in a band setting to see what works for them.
 
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Cliff did say ages back what he had in mind for an Axe III and features included:
  • Larger and, maybe, colour screen
  • Amp like knobs underneath for easy editing and amp like control
  • Maybe a 3U size
  • A feedback mechanism that would read from the real physical speaker cab you attached it to so that the amp could respond to the speaker cab like a traditional valve amp does. This is the missing ingredient from the models that creates that valve amp feel and response. I think you can get close by fine tuning the speaker page in the amp block.
The RAC12 gives the amp like control and it is very easy to dial and tweak amps for different guitars and tones, but maybe an Axe III is closer than we think?

The last bullet is the most important one as this is the concern when running into a cab. Add a built in power section so I can run out to the cab directly from the Axe (also, this ensures everyone is using the same power that Cliff uses when he matches the amp) and I'm ON BOARD! That would be amazing!!!

NOTE: When looking at this last bullet, which is Cliff being the brilliant guy we know he is, look at it this way. I have a Mesa 2:90 and the AxeFX has a Triaxis pre model that is of course dead nuts on, because our pre-amps are incredible. When I run the AxeFX out to my 2:90 it sounds exactly like it would sound if an actual Triaxis preamp was running into my 2:90. I could sit Randall Smith in front of that cab and he would believe that is his Triaxis going into a 2:90. HOWEVER, if I change the triaxis to the Marsha HBE and sat Friedman down in front of that cab and said that's your Marsha HBE, he'd say "That's not my hairy brown eye!" :p
 
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