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Another trick...High Pass / Low Pass

6stringscott

Inspired
Simeon, how much do you get into sculpting the frequencies in other ways? e.g. drive block filtering, amp block settings, including stuff like Negative Feedback that can create a brighter tone, etc.

One thing I've come to realize is that the actual guitar electronics have a huge impact too- pickups (it's own world of factors), 250k or 500k pots, values for capacitors, how you have it wired (e.g. blender knob, with/without bleed cap on the volume, tone pots bypassed), etc. It's funny but when you got to a place like Guitar Center, all the focus is on looks and feel, but not the stuff that really matters inside.

No amount of chasing amp settings will get the classic stratty sound out of a guitar with different type pickups and electronics.
 
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simeon

Axe-Master
very little. i only use filter blocks as a volume boost for solos (set to null). i don't use the eq in the amp block. the drives that i use are only for adding dirt to clean amps, or for boosting dirty amps for solos. i don't touch any advanced parameters, except input trim and the low res frequency in the speaker page to match the IR i'm using. i do spend a lot of time choosing the right IR and i normally use two in a stereo cab.
 

666was999

Power User
I have the mid boostest in a wide range and that's all. There is no need for any hicut or lowcut. No tech ever asked for it.
The IR supplies all the EQing that you need, the IRs job doesn't start to fail above 5k or so, why should it? Why would you trust the IR in the midrange and then guess it massles the the outer ends?
 

5150

Inspired
and you wanna know something freaky? i never do any of this. no eq, no lo/hi cut...just a little tweak of the global eq for foh if it needs it (just to compensate for crappy pa systems). otherwise it's flat all the way and sounds bloody terrific

This is very interesting, Simeon. How much are you cutting in the global EQ? I'm curious.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
i usually drop 6db at 8k and 16k and then 2 or 3db at 4k. same on the bottom - drop 32 by 6db, 64 by 2 and maybe some 127 as well, if needed. some pa's are really hyped in the upper mids and have super harsh tweeters. the sound guy should really have is act together and be able to get a decent sound, but as we all know, this is not very often the case...
 

Perdikament

Power User
I wonder how many "amp in the room" people are also trying to chase/emulate the tone of their guitar heros?

Interesting to see just how many people were caught up in whether or not the new C++ was the actual real Crunch Berries Amp or not and how that whole thread evolved.

One thing i can tell you from playing & being a sound engineer, what a lot of guys with these (and this goes for the smaller clubs) 1/2 stacks or even a 50w 2x12 combo cranked up a bit sitting on the floor, you're missing a TON of high frequencies & volume as you're standing out of the line of fire of your speakers/cab.
If you really want to hear what a true representation of the "amp in the room" sound is, get a wireless and walk around the entire room while you play & especially when/if you play in a band.. It ain't at all what you think. Just moving a few feet in any direction, (left/right/up/down) will have a huge impact on what you hear out of your cab, especially if you're standing above it. They have a tendency to project like a laser beam as well, which means the sound (your tone/what you hear) is really focused. Proximity plays a role, location to walls etc.
 
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mr_fender

Fractal Fanatic
Yep. A guitar cabinet will disperse sound and fill the room quite differently than a full range PA style cabinet will, particularly in the high frequencies.
 

666was999

Power User
Yep. A guitar cabinet will disperse sound and fill the room quite differently than a full range PA style cabinet will, particularly in the high frequencies.
If there exists any recorded track that fills the room with a PA style cabinet, then a modeler could exist as well that fills the room, right?

When you say no recorded track ever fills the room, then modelers too can't fill it. If it's not on records the audience never heard it, why should you work hard to produce it?

When you know a record that fills the room, then you know what your preset should sound like, just match it.

What's my point? If it exists on tracks the axe-fx can do it! If it's not real we don't it.
 

dbun

Experienced
The IR supplies all the EQing that you need, the IRs job doesn't start to fail above 5k or so, why should it?
Not really.
The IR simulates a close mic'd cabinet, which can yield extended highs and lows, which is why sound engineers will high/low cut a guitar track to fit in the mix.

Just because a tech has never asked for it, doesn't mean that they don't do it. A competent sound tech will do what he needs to do at the desk.
 

dbun

Experienced
I get high frequencies out of the output that just aren't there in a real amplifier.
That's not true.

Everything coming out of the Axe Fx is exactly like a mic'd up real amp. I've done many comparisons between the Axe Fx and a close mic'd amp in isolation and what you hear coming back through the monitors is near on identical.

The issue is you are not comparing the same thing, which is a common mistake.
 

666was999

Power User
Not really.
The IR simulates a close mic'd cabinet, which can yield extended highs and lows, which is why sound engineers will high/low cut a guitar track to fit in the mix.

Just because a tech has never asked for it, doesn't mean that they don't do it. A competent sound tech will do what he needs to do at the desk.
In the last years the mixing consoles even for smaller venues changed to digital units that contain the needed eq capabilities, but that's just the last 5 years or so. Before that the consoles had far less controls, bass, treble, and one or two parametric mids and that's all. Cutting below 70hz and above 7k? They simply didn't have the tools at hand for live gigs.

I have no hicuts or lowcuts in my presets and the techs just pull up my fader with almost no correction. All they do it to sometimes lower around 150 hz, since I want that extra punch in the lows but it's too much for a mix. I have never seen one cutting the outer ends. They couldn't do it yesterday and they don't see a need today for it.
 

StickMan

Experienced
I wonder how many "amp in the room" people are also trying to chase/emulate the tone of their guitar heros?
And I wonder how many of those "amp in the room" people realize that they've never actually heard their guitar heroes' tone "amp in the room", but always through a mic?

As a matter of fact, only a very tiny percentage of people have actually heard a guitar amp directly with their own ears, and most of those (the ones called "the bass player", or "the drummer", or "the singer") are probably not really paying a whole lot of attention to the nuances of the guitar tone.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
And I wonder how many of those "amp in the room" people realize that they've never actually heard their guitar heroes' tone "amp in the room", but always through a mic?

As a matter of fact, only a very tiny percentage of people have actually heard a guitar amp directly with their own ears, and most of those (the ones called "the bass player", or "the drummer", or "the singer") are probably not really paying a whole lot of attention to the nuances of the guitar tone.
I have listened to recordings of my favorite artists more than live shows.

But there was a time, in the 70's for me, where the back line was used to carry the guitar, bass, keys at live shows. The audience was hearing the amps vs. today's over the top FOH rigs.

So I did get to see many of my guitar heroes and hear their rigs, their real back line live rigs, in person. The sound of shows like these was incredible.
 

Casper

Inspired
"But there was a time, in the 70's for me, where the back line was used to carry the guitar, bass, keys at live shows. The audience was hearing the amps vs. today's over the top FOH rigs.

So I did get to see many of my guitar heroes and hear their rigs, their real back line live rigs, in person. The sound of shows like these was incredible"

Very true
 

HarrySound

Experienced
I've been using these filter blocks highlighted by this thread for a number of weeks now just to take out some of the really harsh high end that gives me ear fatigue.
I have realised today though that it's probably my actual guitar that I'm absolutely pounding in front of me that's making my ears reel.
This whole thread has opened my ears and eyes to the whole high pass low pass thing when recording though. Something I never used to do.
It's also made me realise that mix guitar tones probably really suck as jamming guitar tones.
I guess the way to do it is to start with a killer tone and adapt it to a mix rather than try and build a mix ready tone from scratch.
 
Guys can go back and forth about this all day. Suffice to say, some people are very bothered by the apparent presence of additional bass and fizz, and others aren't.

If you have a love/hate relationship with the axe fx ii you should sell it, get an amp fx8, and a load box and call it a day.

If you think there's a real problem with the unit and misrepresentation of signal the last place you're going to get help is here. I'm not trying to be hostile. It's just a fact. Nobody here is going to listen to you because they are convinced it is accurate.

They have said since fw 1 that the modeling is exact. Every time somebody has this exact complaint a bunch of people run in here telling them they're wrong.

I suppose it could be that people just don't like the amps that are modeled. For example, the 5153 doesn't sound like many of my favorite recordings of the 5150 I've ever heard. It sounds mushy and undefined or fizdizzy and toppy by comparison.

And the rectifier, to me, sounds bloody awful. I've got a friend with a recto that I've heard in recordings mic'ed up, through a load box with the same IR he uses on the axe, etc. It sounds absolutely nothing like the axe version. It is significantly more pleasant to listen to. I've also heard many other tube amps through a load or mic'ed and have a good amount of mixing experience under my belt and know what I'm hearing.
 
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