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Another Axefx vs Amps thread

Heavyplayer

Experienced
For some unknown reason I been on a real amp kick lately and have bought a few and sent a few back. What I've found is the real amp will always have something more that the Axefx just can't do, and I hate to say that cause I love mine. Does that mean the Axe sucks? HELL NO! In fact I have to give Cliff more credit as I've been away from amps for so long I thought every time he'd say the amp model ( it's spot on) which drove me nuts LOL, was true, the underlining tone/character of the amp is there! BUT, in comparison the real amp sounds thicker, beefier, more dimensional, rounder.

Depending on your ears and the mix you may or may not hear the difference. Isolated you will. This isn't a thread to bash Cliff or his baby or ( insert Adam Sandler voice) my precious! It's in hopes for Cliff to dig deeper and see if he can figure out how to close that gap. AGAIN this is the Axe vs Amp in isolation playing NOT in a mix NOT live setting. Put your headphones on and play! The difference is there. But, and a HUGE but, is the difference you hear worth the extra $$$. Only you can decide that. I say if it's an amp you can afford or been wanting forever the difference might be worth it. Don't listen to everyone on here who reads the forum or everything on the internet and talks like their an amp expert. Do listen to Cliff! He has stated the Axe will never sound exactly like the real amp that's not verbatim, but doesn't mean it doesn't sound like the real thing, cause it does.

What I use is a Suhr loadbox and sennheiser 600 headphones and Axefx for everything else, One comparison I did was with a Marshall JVM 410H. Great amp indeed! BUT, omg is that fucking amp noisy! Why didn't you tell us how noisy that amp was Cliff?! And on the OD channels the gain past a certain point is totally unusable. And watch the channel volume and gain cause is will blow your ears apart with the screeching, noise.

If anyone has played that model on the Axe than you know we don't have that problem, EVER! But I could not get the Axe to give me that thick dimensional sound. Sadly in comparison the Axe is very clean, with a clank kind of sound, way less oomph, no matter how much I tweaked, where the amp is thick and bouncy and rounder, probably where the tubes make a huge difference. Very hard to describe sound as we all describe it differently.

I've tried the Laney Ironheart 60. Good amp. Why hasn't Cliff modeled it yet??? Well it's kind of already in the Axe, I believe it's the Brit Super for the most part. What about the Pre-boost you say. Use the boost Cliff gave us it's way better. The one on the amp, sorry sucks for the most part. The pull out knobs can be useful but aren't like OMG have to have them. Still a really good amp nonetheless.

I won't go into every amp. But last is the Mesa Boogie Mark V 90 head. This amp.......it's a badass. In comparison same as above. And somehow it make the effects I use really standout in a great way, like I can hear way more detail. Which is inspiring. And again the underlining tone is there in the Axe.
What I noticed is the Axe is way brighter than you'd think, don't try to copy exact settings from an amp. Probably the extended 5 band EQ.

And again Axe vs amp. Amp=beefier, dimensional, rounder, bouncy. Lots of parts that can and will take a shit on you! Axe=Same tone, cleaner, a bit brighter, clankish tone, loads of other effects/shit you don't know how to use. LOL AND way less likely to ever shit on you.

I'm going to leave it like this and say again not bashing the Axe, and say I was really surprised how close with just math/algorithms, how good Cliff has done in the modeling world. And the differences could be the real tubes, who knows. What I will say is I'm keeping some amps and the Axe is never going anywhere. I just touched on the amp modeling, and we all know it's so much more! In the future I would like if YOU Cliff would be so kind as to tell us whether the amp is noisy or shitty unusable gain, etc please. And I look forward to maybe one day you find a way to completely close that gap, cause it's over for the amp world if you do.
 

Joel.Brown333

Inspired
It all depends on your rig. I use tube power amps and guitar cabs. Fractal sounds just as thick, beefy, whatever term you want to use. Actually I tried a SS power amp and guitar cab and thought that was slightly better than a tube power amp and guitar cab. The Fractal power amp modeling is top notch.

But let's beat this dead horse some more...
 

Heavyplayer

Experienced
Yet another person running in here without reading. Bet you just came in here just to express your love for fractal....I'm glad I love it too.
 

JiveTurkey

Power User
You clearly didn't read
Clearly? Maybe I read this the wrong way.

So you are using an amp through a load box with headphones and comparing the same Axe models through the same headphones? Obviously; the loadbox won't be needed for the Axe. And there aren't tubes in the equation.
 

Heavyplayer

Experienced
Nevermimd, I can tell this can't be a meaningful discussion.
It could've been had you read everything I stated, and how I compared the amps/models. Instead you just comment with a mindset of me bashing the Axe, with beating a dead horse statement, and using in a live environment. None of which I've done.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
The Axe-Fx models the full chain including speaker effects. Just using a loadbox will make the amp sound "beefier" because there will be more low end. A real amp into a real speaker causes compression and reduction of the low-frequency resonance. A loadbox won't replicate this because it doesn't have a moving coil.

Turn Speaker Compliance to zero and do a Tone Match and you'll be surprised.
 

AlbertA

Fractal Fanatic
If I understand correctly, he's running an apples to apples test:

Amp->Load box->Axe-Fx III->Cab block->Headphones
vs
Amp Block->Cab Block->Headphones

@Heavyplayer is that right?
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
If I understand correctly, he's running an apples to apples test:

Amp->Load box->Axe-Fx III->Cab block->Headphones
vs
Amp Block->Cab Block->Headphones

@Heavyplayer is that right?
Yes, but it's not really apples-to-apples because the Axe-Fx is modeling speaker nonlinearities and a loadbox does not.

As the speaker moves the B*l product varies which affects the frequency and magnitude of the low-frequency and high-frequency resonances.
 

Heavyplayer

Experienced
The Axe-Fx models the full chain including speaker effects. Just using a loadbox will make the amp sound "beefier" because there will be more low end. A real amp into a real speaker causes compression and reduction of the low-frequency resonance. A loadbox won't replicate this because it doesn't have a moving coil.

Turn Speaker Compliance to zero and do a Tone Match and you'll be surprised.
So creating a preset with an IR in the Axe and than using a loadbox for the amp and creating a signal chain in the Axe to use with the same IR would be the same result as you stated above?
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
So creating a preset with an IR in the Axe and than using a loadbox for the amp and creating a signal chain in the Axe to use with the same IR would be the same result as you stated above?
That's not what I said. An amp into a load box will have more low end because a load box doesn't replicate the dynamic impedance of a speaker.

Turn Speaker Compliance to zero to simulate a static load and then do a Tone Match to remove any differences between your copy of the amp and the model.
 

Heavyplayer

Experienced
Or just use the amp. These threads are pointless. It's one person's opinion thinking that voicing said opinion will somehow "improve" something that may or may not need improvement.
Many people who came to share "their opinions" have improved the unit. I'm one of them.
 
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