An update from a newb

[unix-guy]

Thanks very much for your input. I don’t think this is impossible though. One of the tings that Yamaha did when creating the V2 of the THR10 was to add a room mic to the close mic modeling. The results speak for themselves. I was under the impression that “room” was adjustable in the cab settings. I’m new though so I may be wrong.

My main point is that for decades it was common wisdom that digital processors could not accurately mimic tube amps. That was wrong. They certainly can. Then it was that they could not mimic cabs. With IR’s they certainly can. The list goes on.

Any missing component of the sound or tone is just a variable to be solved for. I had hoped that the Axe FX III had solved all of them. Perhaps it has and I just need to man-up and be a power user.

The bottom line is that I want a device that will give me any tone I can think of and then use it in any fashion I desire.

To say that is impossible is ceasing to dream. It certainly can be done and I would argue that we are very close or even potentially there. I currently think the difference might lie in what other tools... like speakers, headphones, recorders we use in tandem with the tone generator. I think most studio engineers might agreee.

It’s why studio monitors are critical and why mastering is a thing. If I can replace hundreds of amps with one device why can’t I replace the rest as well?

Do the search I suggested... Read the threads... It's all been discussed multiple times.

The Axe Fx (when used with FRFR) is modeling a recorded guitar signal chain. Record your Yamaha and play it back for comparison. It's no different...

Go find some stem tracks from your favorite guitarist and listen to them. They will sound much more like the Axe Fx.

If you want a cab in the room response, use one. It's no fault of the Axe Fx in this case.

 

[unix-guy]

I’m not doing this at all. I am playing both at the same level.

But the response of your speakers vs your cab is not the same thing... And again, you are discounting all of the parts of the signal chain that are different.

 

[King’s X - Jason]

Rectify what, exactly?


Those are tiny bookshelf speakers for a stereo. They're neither full range or flat response. I don't think you're really getting the right expereince. That being said, you also may be expecting something that isn't possible.

Rectify me getting the results I expect and being happy with how I use this device.
My tiny bookshelf speakers for a stereo play back some of my all time favorite guitar tones flawlessly. Perhaps you are content that it is impossible to play your own favorite tones through them as well.

I am not. It’s dreamers who believed the “impossible” was possible that got us to where we are today. You can double down on the idea we can’t go further. I disagree.

 

[King’s X - Jason]

Do the search I suggested... Read the threads... It's all been discussed multiple times.

The Axe Fx (when used with FRFR) is modeling a recorded guitar signal chain. Record your Yamaha and play it back for comparison. It's no different...

Go find some stem tracks from your favorite guitarist and listen to them. They will sound much more like the Axe Fx.

If you want a cab in the room response, use one. It's no fault of the Axe Fx in this case.

If I can have multiple amps why can’t I have multiple mics?
Including one... out in the room?

 

[King’s X - Jason]

But the response of your speakers vs your cab is not the same thing... And again, you are discounting all of the parts of the signal chain that are different.

Then why do these speakers play back great guitar tone from an MP3 or CD?

Honestly we are just missing a few components of “modeling.”

To disagree is to dismiss all of the progress made and what still needs to be done as inconquerable.

I’d love to hear what the forward thinking engineers at Fractal think about things that can NEVER happen.

Do you honestly think that an Axe FX 5 will never occur?

 

[unix-guy]

If I can have multiple amps why can’t I have multiple mics?
Including one... out in the room?

Because IRs are not captured that way...

There are what are called "far field" IRs, but they are very difficult to capture correctly. They need to be done in a large space with very flat mics.

And again, please listen to recordings of guitar tones you are chasing. I can guarantee the Axe Fx will be closer to those tones than what you're hearing in the room.

 

[King’s X - Jason]

Because IRs are not captured that way...

There are what are called "far field" IRs, but they are very difficult to capture correctly. They need to be done in a large space with very flat mics.

And again, please listen to recordings of guitar tones you are chasing. I can guarantee the Axe Fx will be closer to those tones than what you're hearing in the room.

And yet the small company known as Yamaha has learned how to capture excellent tone direct and in the room as well from a $800 device. While using near and in room mic modeling. I am not sure why you are against having that power available to Axe FX users. It is doable. For a unit that cost 3X as much I would expect nonething less.

 

[unix-guy]

Then why do these speakers play back great guitar tone from an MP3 or CD?

Honestly we are just missing a few components of “modeling.”

To disagree is to dismiss all of the progress made and what still needs to be done as inconquerable.

I’d love to hear what the forward thinking engineers at Fractal think about things that can NEVER happen.

Do you honestly think that an Axe FX 5 will never occur?

I didn't say they couldn't.

What I'm saying is that you will NEVER get the same response from those speakers as what you get when listening to a guitar cabinet with your ears (i.e., not recorded).

Listen, I understand that you are frustrated. But telling everyone that is trying to educate you on why you are hearing what you are hearing that they are disagreeing or not "being dreamers" doesn't change the facts.

You've gotten a lot of good information here. Use it... Listen to the experienced people here. It's not our first time at the rodeo.

 

[unix-guy]

And yet the small company known as Yamaha has learned how to capture excellent tone direct and in the room as well from a $800 device. While using near and in room mic modeling. I am not sure why you are against having that power available to Axe FX users. It is doable. For a unit that cost 3X as much I would expect nonething less.

This is going to be my last comment.

Have you compared the recorded tone from the Yamaha and the Axe Fx through the same speakers?

If you think the Yamaha sounds more real in a recording, please post a video or audio sample.

 

[unix-guy]

And yet the small company known as Yamaha

Ok, I lied... One more comment: Yamaha is a HUGE company.

A quick Google search says 28,000+.

 

[King’s X - Jason]

But the response of your speakers vs your cab is not the same thing... And again, you are discounting all of the parts of the signal chain that are different.

Exactly why IOS apps are available for a few dollars to “neutralize” the color of various heads phones so you can get studio quality across each of them.

The same thing occurs with hearing aids.

ALL parts of the signal chain including your ears can be accounted for. It’s been done.
Just hasn’t trickled down yet.

 

[King’s X - Jason]

This is going to be my last comment.

Have you compared the recorded tone from the Yamaha and the Axe Fx through the same speakers?

If you think the Yamaha sounds more real in a recording, please post a video or audio sample.

I am going strictly by what I hear while playing. If that isn’t right.... I’m not recording it.

Why would I?

 

[King’s X - Jason]

Ok, I lied... One more comment: Yamaha is a HUGE company.

A quick Google search says 28,000+.

And what they deliver from guitars, pianos, amps, drums, basses, horns, etc, shows it.

 

[chris]

I am going strictly by what I hear while playing. If that isn’t right.... I’m not recording it.

Why would I?

because listening to live playing and a recording are just different.

good luck on your quest here. we've tried to explain things, but it's not being received.

 

[King’s X - Jason]

Ok, I lied... One more comment: Yamaha is a HUGE company.

A quick Google search says 28,000+.

I am not trying to argue with you or prove you wrong in any way. In fact I truly appreciate your input.
I REALLY DO!

I just have a different point of view on what I expect Amigo.

 

[unix-guy]

I am going strictly by what I hear while playing. If that isn’t right.... I’m not recording it.

Why would I?

Ok... So when you play the Yamaha, can you listen to it ONLY via the direct sound and not using the cab? Are you saying that in that case, it sounds better than the Axe Fx?

 

[King’s X - Jason]

because listening to live playing and a recording are just different.

good luck on your quest here. we've tried to explain things, but it's not being received.

Fair enough. Sounds like I am being written off.

I still don’t have an explanation for the difference between the Yamaha THR100HD and the Axe FX III.
Perhaps it’s because you guys don’t have both to hear the difference. No matter.

My playing on the Yamaha sounds just like a recording. I simply choose a voice, tube type, output level and gain then go.
I rarely have to touch EQ.

It seems as though most are content with what they know.

 

[King’s X - Jason]

Ok... So when you play the Yamaha, can you listen to it ONLY via the direct sound and not using the cab? Are you saying that in that case, it sounds better than the Axe Fx?

Yes. It absolutely does.
To be fair to you and others that I think are trying to engage me and help me...
The only variable I have not normalized for yet is the IR’s I am using.
The Yamaha is using Celestion Creamback 75 IR’s solely while the Axe FX is using whatever FAS or Austin Buddy chose to use.

Who knows? That might be it. I am super particular.

 

[King’s X - Jason]

Yes. It absolutely does.
To be fair to you and others that I think are trying to engage me and help me...
The only variable I have not normalized for yet is the IR’s I am using.
The Yamaha is using Celestion Creamback 75 IR’s solely while the Axe FX is using whatever FAS or Austin Buddy chose to use.

Who knows? That might be it. I am super particular.

The more I think of it the more I wonder....
Could we have a global IR to run everything through? Might be there already there I am a newb after all.

 

[King’s X - Jason]

I didn't say they couldn't.

What I'm saying is that you will NEVER get the same response from those speakers as what you get when listening to a guitar cabinet with your ears (i.e., not recorded).

Listen, I understand that you are frustrated. But telling everyone that is trying to educate you on why you are hearing what you are hearing that they are disagreeing or not "being dreamers" doesn't change the facts.

You've gotten a lot of good information here. Use it... Listen to the experienced people here. It's not our first time at the rodeo.

I appreciate this honesty. I’ll do my part and work on it from my end...