An Experiment: Leveled Drive Blocks

[jlynnb1]

well it's just THEIR way, and that's fine, they have that right....doesn't mean others wouldn't like it another way, and that's valid as well. Same with building a Big Sky type sound. Some would like an all in one block, Fractal doesn't see the need to do anything different than how they do it. Both sides have valid points, and its totally the prerogative of the powers that be to do it however they wish.

No one should get riled up either way, lol...

 

[TRTTRTTRT]

But see?

I again refer you to Brett Kingman who said that there are a lot of well known uses/settings for many of the pedals and that at some point Fractal might consider setting up pedals in a common way so that pedals guys would be in familiar and happy territory.

I see people whinge about the Fractal drives and my response is always the same: dig in. We all should believe the sounds are in their based on the FAS track record, but if you have to work a little more than seems necessary to pedals guys there's a chance they'll consider it too much work and just go back to pedals.

A little direction and help can go a long way towards making customers happy. IMO.

 

[chris]

A little direction and help can go a long way towards making customers happy. IMO.

what i'm about to say makes absolutely no sense, but it comes from over 4 years of helping people with the Axe and with guitar gear in general longer than that:

if i give people a starting point that sounds "good" or even "ok," because *I* (as opposed to a factory default) gave it to them that way, they are reluctant to ever change it because "that's what it's supposed to sound like." however, if i do give them the factory default, they immediately learn how to change things so they can find their own tone. that seems way more beneficial in the long run.

you might then say "well if the factory default drive pedal settings sounded good, then people would still want to change them."

but i would say look at what happens with the Factory Presets. they sound "good" and many people don't want to touch them or adjust anything because that's how it's "supposed" to be.

it's really interesting how people interpret things on the axe, what they think should and shouldn't/can't be adjusted and why.

honestly, i think this whole conversation is moot because everything can be changed regardless of what the factory default is. would it be neat if all drive pedals had a "good" sound when you selected them? sure. but i don't think it's that much different from what we currently have.

of course this whole thing started about a discussion about the Level of drives being similar as you try them. i think that helps mostly during the first time you try the different drive pedals, and maybe "later" when you haven't tried the different ones in a while.

but you'll discover the ones you like and go to those and know what settings to change when you learn them better. same goes for amps, which i feel doesn't have this issue, yet there are over 222+ that do have different levels as you scroll through them.

re: the specific quote, i think the Axe and FAS have given people a ton of direction to make people happy. by now, over 7 years after the first Axe was released, there have been many, many, MANY improvements as the direct result of customer feedback and suggestion. at this point, we are mostly nit-picking, and things that are "that'd be nice" seem like "this MUST be done!" because there really are no major problems or requests by now.

should we stop suggesting things or should FAS stop improving? of course not. but it'd be nice for a moment to reflect on how far it's come over the years and just how much dang work has already been put into these products perhaps easier for me since i started using the Ultra in 2007 and have seen all the improvements over the years.

with that in mind, sometimes when i see something like this, i want to say "reach over and turn down your volume"

this thread and topic is really far out by now, so this will be my last post regarding it. perhaps one day it will be implemented. until then... reach over and turn down your volume

 

[TRTTRTTRT]

what i'm about to say makes absolutely no sense, but it comes from over 4 years of helping people with the Axe and with guitar gear in general longer than that:

if i give people a starting point that sounds "good" or even "ok," because *I* (as opposed to a factory default) gave it to them that way, they are reluctant to ever change it because "that's what it's supposed to sound like." however, if i do give them the factory default, they immediately learn how to change things so they can find their own tone. that seems way more beneficial in the long run.

you might then say "well if the factory default drive pedal settings sounded good, then people would still want to change them."

but i would say look at what happens with the Factory Presets. they sound "good" and many people don't want to touch them or adjust anything because that's how it's "supposed" to be.

it's really interesting how people interpret things on the axe, what they think should and shouldn't/can't be adjusted and why.

honestly, i think this whole conversation is moot because everything can be changed regardless of what the factory default is. would it be neat if all drive pedals had a "good" sound when you selected them? sure. but i don't think it's that much different from what we currently have.

of course this whole thing started about a discussion about the Level of drives being similar as you try them. i think that helps mostly during the first time you try the different drive pedals, and maybe "later" when you haven't tried the different ones in a while.

but you'll discover the ones you like and go to those and know what settings to change when you learn them better. same goes for amps, which i feel doesn't have this issue, yet there are over 222+ that do have different levels as you scroll through them.

re: the specific quote, i think the Axe and FAS have given people a ton of direction to make people happy. by now, over 7 years after the first Axe was released, there have been many, many, MANY improvements as the direct result of customer feedback and suggestion. at this point, we are mostly nit-picking, and things that are "that'd be nice" seem like "this MUST be done!" because there really are no major problems or requests by now.

should we stop suggesting things or should FAS stop improving? of course not. but it'd be nice for a moment to reflect on how far it's come over the years and just how much dang work has already been put into these products perhaps easier for me since i started using the Ultra in 2007 and have seen all the improvements over the years.

with that in mind, sometimes when i see something like this, i want to say "reach over and turn down your volume"

this thread and topic is really far out by now, so this will be my last post regarding it. perhaps one day it will be implemented. until then... reach over and turn down your volume

I appreciate all of this.

The only things I would say - for you to consider - are that:

- these cheaper FAS products are going to appeal to a much wider audience and retaining that audience - which will include a lot more casual players certainly - would be helpful to any growing company.

- most drive pedals are very simple to use. They have 3-4 hardware knobs and a couple of switches. That sort of ease of use is what pedals players will be expecting just be default. Making it harder to transition to a FAS product might be considered counter productive. Even if it helps them "learn to fish"

I do take all your points though and thanks for the considered response.

 

[R.D.]

Didn't fremen do approximately 40 ( some odd ) Drive blocks ?

I think I remember he tried to give them at least somewhat "musical" settings and appropriate levels for how they would typically be used ( ie; Overdrives had at least some "boost" and Distortions were more unity gain ) ... ?

I think it might have even been AFTER Cliff introduced G3 for the Drives too ?

Isn't that what we're talking about here ?

If so, do a search and find that old thread, it just might have what you're looking for ....

GOOD LUCK !

 

[feliperigby]

Any changes you made Drive, Tone, Bass, Mid Freq, Mid, Treble, Mix, Level, Balance will persist from model to model change in the drive block. Low cut, high cut, clip type -- they'll all be adjusted to match the model as you change it irregardless of whether you've made tweaks to this or not.


Resetting the block block puts it back to it's default state: all the controls go to an initial value and the model is set to Rat Dist.

How do I "reset the blocks"? It's a stupid question I know, but I need that information...

 

[USMC_Trev]

I appreciate all of this.
- these cheaper FAS products are going to appeal to a much wider audience and retaining that audience - which will include a lot more casual players certainly - would be helpful to any growing company.

Oh heeeellll naw. Lower price points or products should engender no expectation for Fractal dumbing anything down. This ain't Line6 or any of that other Best Buy nonsense. Anyone showing up expecting Mattel/Tonka is in for an pleasant awakening (with a bit of a learning curve) not pandering or basic Ford vs. Chevy shenanigans. They are stepping up, not down or across.

If that's what you came for, sorry Charlie. That's not what we're into here. I am a casual player, meaning I'm not a studio guy or in a band or play out. That doesn't mean I expect this stuff to function like a bean pod because I'm a layman. I can use it like that (and for the most part do) but I can't imagine Fractal dumbing anything down for the likes of me just to push a few more boxes. I would be disappointed if they did.

 

[Once was Gearzilla]

Might be time for some decaf....

 

[chris]

How do I "reset the blocks"? It's a stupid question I know, but I need that information...

On the Axe-Fx II: in the Edit screen of a block, press Bypass 2x quickly (not FX Bypass)

On the FX8: In the Edit screen of a block, press Enter 2x quickly and press Page to confirm

On the AX8: In the Edit screen of a block, press Shift, then Edit (FX Bypass) 2x quickly and press Enter to confirm.

On all Edit software, select the block you want to reset, click the Block menu above and select Reset Block (or find the same function in the right-click menu on the block itself).

 

[iaresee]

How do I "reset the blocks"? It's a stupid question I know, but I need that information...

See Chris' amazingly comprehensive answer above!

 

[feliperigby]

On the Axe-Fx II: in the Edit screen of a block, press Bypass 2x quickly (not FX Bypass)

On the FX8: In the Edit screen of a block, press Enter 2x quickly and press Page to confirm

On the AX8: In the Edit screen of a block, press Shift, then Edit (FX Bypass) 2x quickly and press Enter to confirm.

On all Edit software, select the block you want to reset, click the Block menu above and select Reset Block (or find the same function in the right-click menu on the block itself).

Thanks for the help man!

 

[TRTTRTTRT]

Oh heeeellll naw. Lower price points or products should engender no expectation for Fractal dumbing anything down. This ain't Line6 or any of that other Best Buy nonsense. Anyone showing up expecting Mattel/Tonka is in for an pleasant awakening (with a bit of a learning curve) not pandering or basic Ford vs. Chevy shenanigans. They are stepping up, not down or across.

If that's what you came for, sorry Charlie. That's not what we're into here. I am a casual player, meaning I'm not a studio guy or in a band or play out. That doesn't mean I expect this stuff to function like a bean pod because I'm a layman. I can use it like that (and for the most part do) but I can't imagine Fractal dumbing anything down for the likes of me just to push a few more boxes. I would be disappointed if they did.

I don't think that I implied at ALL that anything should be dumbed down.

Giving people an option to make drive blocks all the same volume out of the box or have drive block settings that sound good out of the box isn't dumbing anything down.

 

[jlynnb1]

Oh heeeellll naw. Lower price points or products should engender no expectation for Fractal dumbing anything down. This ain't Line6 or any of that other Best Buy nonsense. Anyone showing up expecting Mattel/Tonka is in for an pleasant awakening (with a bit of a learning curve) not pandering or basic Ford vs. Chevy shenanigans. They are stepping up, not down or across.

If that's what you came for, sorry Charlie. That's not what we're into here. I am a casual player, meaning I'm not a studio guy or in a band or play out. That doesn't mean I expect this stuff to function like a bean pod because I'm a layman. I can use it like that (and for the most part do) but I can't imagine Fractal dumbing anything down for the likes of me just to push a few more boxes. I would be disappointed if they did.

he implied nothing of the sort....accessibility/functionality do not equal dumbing down...

 

[greiswig]

what i'm about to say makes absolutely no sense, but it comes from over 4 years of helping people with the Axe and with guitar gear in general longer than that:

if i give people a starting point that sounds "good" or even "ok," because *I* (as opposed to a factory default) gave it to them that way, they are reluctant to ever change it because "that's what it's supposed to sound like."

Chris,

Due respect to you for this statement, and I find it totally plausible that this is a good description of your experience with your customers. But I respectfully suggest that it might be representative only of the type of users who come to you for help, not of everyone out there using the unit. In other words, sampling error and self-selection bias may be skewing your results.

This thread has already wandered a bit, so apologies if this just makes that worse, but...again, I have a lot of experience in designing things for usability, testing them for usability, and so forth. I went to grad school to learn this profession and have been doing it for 20 years. My experience has been that people who are offered a great set of default settings will often leave them just there. (As you describe). People who are "deep divers" by nature may leave them if they find them useful, but won't hesitate to stray from the defaults if it serves their purposes. So in general, the best practice for a device like this would to go out with good, recommended default settings or a recommended set of settings, then allow and encourage changes to those.

Anyway, these are offered up as suggestions, not criticisms. Hope this doesn't get anybody's knickers in a knot.

 

[Once was Gearzilla]

It doesn't seem like a big deal either way. Someone can level the output manually if they want to and someone could unlevel the output manually if the initial set up was leveled.
Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[Stratman68]

I do not understand the gigantic issue this has become to avoid , what 20 minutes? I really just do not get it....I have never had an issue with this...what a joke this has become....Heaven forbid you actually have to work a bit to make music....what a horrible thought

 

[Guitar Player]

I couldnt get them too work on my axe fx2 mk1. I would like to know what all the hub bub is about haha. Are they just blocks that start off at a setting thats "good".

 

[iaresee]

I couldnt get them too work on my axe fx2 mk1. I would like to know what all the hub bub is about haha. Are they just blocks that start off at a setting thats "good".

They were created with an XL+. They're not "good" settings. On the contrary I'd argue most of them start off "not good". They're all leveled for approximately unity gain.