Amp only overdrive...

S

stereotactic

Experienced
Hello all, as a new Axe owner, I'm very impressed by all the options available to us to construct overdrive sounds. However, I am not a fan of overdrive/distortion pedals and have always found the highest fidelity, most dynamic overdrive sounds come from a properly designed amp gain structure, be they stock or modded. In my case, this is exemplified by JCM 800's and 2 input JMP's, both of the 50w varieties, with their comparatively higher iron to watt transformer ratios.

Given the amazing level of adjustment possible in the Axe amp model gain structures, including many combinations not possible in the physical world, how do other users who prefer amp overdrive approach the myriad possibilities of the Axe?

Do you still feel the same about amp distortion vs hiting the preamp with a pedal now that your Axe can do it all to the finest and most flexible degree? If you do still prefer the Axe amp distortion vs a drive pedal in front, how do you go about creating a new sound? Which parameters do you adjust first? What is your ultimate imagined sound and how do you go about trying to get it with the Axe?

Thanks in advance for your input!
 
I rarely use the overdrive pedals because my favorite amps in the Axe sound great without them. I prefer using the guitar volume knob and an expression pedal that controls main out level to achieve different gain textures. With all of that said, the drives are really nice and I may eventually bring a couple into my main presets for different flavors :)


BTW welcome! the Axe is exciting because there is always something new to learn/do :)
 
There is a lot of "option paralysis," and there's no simple answer. I just set aside time to dig in.

I've started using Input Trim more to turn a rhythm sound into a lead. It can add that "goes to 11" element.

I didn't use Drive effects much, but then they got a rework and @yek did a series of write ups on the drive pedals which inspired me to try them more. I ended up liking the Esoteric drives for an extra touch here and there. Then the new Shimmer model came out and that's a great way to turn a rhythm sound into a lead.
 
I seldom use distortion pedals and prefer the sound of cranked power amp section. For leads I tend to use MB MK II or IV but occasionally I'll throw a fuzz or boost in front of a Plexi model
 
So far I've only used drive pedals for a boosted solo tone - the shimmer drive works wonderfully for that. For everything else, just adjust amp controls to taste, perhaps with an EQ out the front of the amp?
 
I like both. I found that the overdrives and distortions will behave better with the mix control at about 50. I know this is counter intuitive as drives are usually 100% engaged, but the drives really opened up for me when I started lowering the mix control. I love the "super OD" with the drive all the way up and the level and mix at 50%. I also love the distorted amps. A single preset with a clean amp and a dirty amp in an x/y config can cover a lot of ground. Adding the OD on top of the clean can give you a 3rd sound and open up a lot of ground. Just my take. As so many (much smarter than me) folks on here have said. "Use your ears, and forget about what you think you know" Woot!"
 
I'm definitely a fan of amp gain over drive pedal gain. This is just down to my past experience long before modelling got fully mature (IMO) with Fractal products.

I honestly have only ever owned one drive/distortion stomp box and that was when I first started playing electric guitar. Lack of money meant I was using whatever I could afford so it was a Rickenbacker (yes Rickenbacker you read that right!) solid state amp which gave me static shocks when my lips touched a mic and some horrible cheap dirt pedal. I begged, borrowed and saved up for a Les Paul and a Marshall stack and the dirt box got thrown away. The guitar volume knob was the gain control.

Various other MV rigs came afterwards with channel switching and more preamp gain on tap and some stomp boxes - but only delay/chorus/flanger that went into the loop ..... or when I went rack based, a digital MultiFX unit

I do think a good drive pedal is a valuable tool in a live rig ..... but it became a bit of a 'thing' with me to stay with the old school method.

I'm still working on feeling comfortable incorporating a drive block into my AxeFX presets for a quick IA effect or as a permanently on block to help shape the gain - but with the ability to have 1 or 2 amp blocks, scenes, x/y, change to new preset or combinations of these means I can still choose to be pig headed and use the amp block gains alone. No bridges were burned as a result of buying the AxeFX.
 
As a rule I usually use no it lie gain amps and pedals. Reason being is I like to have a broader bandwidth with clean and then limit it with pedals.
 
I also use both. I never turn the mix level of a drive pedal up higher than 50%. Often lower. Just adds a really nice touch to the sound. I don't care for the sound of a cranked drive pedal.
 
Thanks for all the info! Using a pedal or upping the input level for a lead sound is sensible.

For high gain rhythm sounds, what do people think is an optimal gain structure to achieve the richest tone with the most sensitivity and dynamics?
 
Geezerjohn said:
I also use both. I never turn the mix level of a drive pedal up higher than 50%. Often lower. Just adds a really nice touch to the sound. I don't care for the sound of a cranked drive pedal.
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For me, I've found that it depends on the particular model of drive. For those where I reduce the Mix, normally 40-60% seems to be the sweet spot for me although I may go as high as 80%.

I like the ACB, FAS Boost and Timothy most when doing this. Setting the Drive fairly high and lowering the Mix. Gives a nice chewiness to a low or mid gain amp.
 
To the OP, I'm primarily doing the same as @Ed DeGenaro. I find it sounds more "organic" to boost a "clean" amp into a lead sound as the basic "core" remains the same.

I do also like the fact that I can switch between two completely different amps if I want to - the power of the Axe Fx! :)
 
For high gain (I mean modern metal), use an OD with low drive and high level into a high gain amp with the gain backed-off a bit.

You may want to copy the Hi- and Lo-cut from a drive pedal you like, into a Filter block, and use its output level as your boost control. Saves CPU and is more transparent :)
 
Another "both" here. Or more accurately, "all three". For some presets I use a drive pedal (Shimmer is my current favorite.) For others I boost the input gain. For others I simply switch to a different amp and cab within the same preset. Welcome to Fractal-land!
 
I used to be all about dirt pedals. I never used any amp gain. But then again I always used to use clean Fender amps. So I always was on the lookout for a good high gain Marshall sound pedal. For a long time I used the Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret, then the Mad Professor Stone Grey Distortion and last the MI Audio Crunch Box.

When I transitioned to the Axe I never really liked the high gain dirt pedal models. The ones I liked weren't modeled and the ones that were modeled I didn't like. For a while I considered using my old dirt pedals in my rack. But the rackdrawer with pedals added 10 kilos to my rack and at the time I didn't really know how to make it work. Then I realized, why use a dirt pedal to simulate the sound of an overdriven Marshall when there's Marshall amps in my Axe? So I began to explore amp distortion. And now I use a Marshall boosted by an overdrive.
 
Back in the day, I used those master volume Marshall's. Both 50w and 100w versions. They never had quite enough gain so I used to always use an MXR Micro Amp as a front end to get the gain I wanted. The old MXR 6 band graphic was good for this too with all the faders dimed bit it was always on as there is no switch on that pedal :) It was nothing to do with wanting a pedal in front, it was more necessity.
The first amp I had that more or less had enough gain was the Marshall 2210 but even then, I was still using the MXR Micro Amp for solos.
After that, it was Boogie Mk3's for me. It was the first amp that had the gain I wanted. Over the years, I also used Soldano SLO100's and for a long time live, I was using an ADA MP-1 for ease of use to cover a lot of sounds. After that, my Bradshaw system had the ADA swapped out for a Custom Audio 3+SE and that was an amp I was so happy with.
Another real world amp I have is the little Marshall 2150 Rock 'n' Roll baby 1x12 100w Combo. Putting a Suhr Riot pedal in front of that is a such great sound as again that amp does not really have enough gain.
With the Fractal stuff, I have stuck with the Boogie Mk series as in the real world, they are amps I know well. They do all my live gain stuff and I use the 3+SE model for the clean stuff.
Those amps cover everything I need at the moment. I don't switch a load of different amps in and out during the set with the AxeFX or AX8, It is just the Boogie Mk model and the 3+SE clean model.
 
You can also use the saturation switch and drive to add/customize gain. I think I read in the manual or on the other info on here that it is supposed to be like adding the "Jose Mod" to an amp. I starting using it on a few of my patches when I lost gain in one of the early Quantum updates.
 
Like many others, I typically use drive pedals only as colored boosts for an amp that is already cranked up to either just breaking up all the way up to being distorted. Low drive and higher output typically. Or else using EQ or filters to push amps and color the sound. The "boost" function from the amp front panel is also very useful to get more gain.
 
I've played around with the Axe Fx OD pedals, but never really found a need for them. As already mentioned, there are so many amp models and so much flexibility within those models, OD pedals seem unnecessary. Having said that, if there was a singing lead tone that I could not obtain using only an amp and cab, I would be looking at the OD pedals. In the physical amp world, OD pedals are a big deal, mostly because most guys only have one or two physical amps.
 
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