Amp model suggestions for worship music (rock)

codyraptor said:
Curious...why not use your IEMs? I would've thought you'd want your tone to sound great in your IEM's if they're good quality. I could understand not using them if they're iPod headphones or something..but a good set of IEMs seem to have a fairly flat response. Am I missing something on this one?
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He thinks his IEM are far from flat. I too thought that was strange

To the OP I use one mega patch with 5 scenes but what I keep doing is copying the patch and setting up my scenes to be perfect for the song


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They sound good, but not flat. They're UE4s which are Ultimate Ears' entry level customs. They're a bit light on the low end. I know I need to be in the sparkly Vox camp (or something similar) but through the IEMs it's just too bright. I was using a plexi patch on my Line 6 gear, but the Vox tone fits much better, though honestly I think I'm looking for something a little warmer. After going through 10 presets my ears are so fatigued from all the good choices that I can't really self adjust for the color of my monitors. Hopefully after playing through a good pair of studio monitors tomorrow I'll have a better feel for things. I just really didn't want to play thru 50 different amps in an hour and be no closer to figuring out what I want. The Axe is an amazing piece of gear, but it's almost (almost, mind you) too many choices. Probably the last piece of gear I buy for the next 10 years.
 
My 5 main presets, clean to dirty-ish for this type stuff are: 59 Bassman (KT-66), AC30 TB HW, Bad Cat Hot Cat 30R, Trainwreck Express1, and 1959 SLP Jumpered. These are mostly for CCM sort of stuff.

I mostly keep Rotary, Drive, Chorus, Delay & Reverb in my patches, available, but not necessarily on.

My "X" Delay is a lower level stereo, ambient or tape type delay, usually, set so it's not that noticeable for simple rhythm stuff; My "Y" delay is usually a little more effected - mostly dual delay for this one.

A GEQ is usually on, and a PEQ is available for lead boosts - usually set around 4 or 5 db level.

It sort of depends on who I'm playing with, and the mood. I'll often go to Dirty Shirley, Morgan AC20 Deluxe (EF86), or the Freidman BE or HBE, for a bit more thump & grind, if we're in the Drop-D sort of style. If we're doing a jazz/blues sort of thing, I'll go with something like the Dumble Ford or ODS100 HRM. I used to use the Matchless Chieftan a lot, but it's easy to get too brittle/bright, in the wrong setting.

I'm currently struggling a bit with my #1 pure clean tone sort of amp - a lot of things that sound good at the home studio aren't what I thought through the FRFR wedges, so I'm not sure I've settled in there, yet. I've always liked a bit of fuzziness, even in my "clean" tones, but am trying to get a good pure clean compressed clean sort of tone. Maybe it's me, but I'm not happy there, just yet.
 
As far as IEMs go, I've used several different models over the years and I can tell you all that they have as much color variation as any consumer audio equipment. When you spend big bucks you can get closer to a flat response, but most of the stage models are built to give musicians a color that helps them hear what they need. I've used a set of Shure single driver universals (I don't remember the model, but it's not the current one) which was pretty full on the low end, Westone UM1s which sounded much clearer but not as full, Westone UM2s which sounded pretty flat and even as well as being clear, and now the Ultimate Ears. The UE4s were $400 dual driver and are more mid and treble heavy. The UE5s are supposed to be fuller on the low end, but they're $600. In hind sight I should have spent the extra money, but I still really dig the customs over universals and it really has no effect on my playing or worship experience.
 
I use the VOX AX30 TB with the Matchless for clean to crunch on Scene 1, then Scene 2 has the same amps but with Boost enabled for a fatter drive. I used those 2 amps because Nigel Hendroff from Hillsong United was talking about his setup on a Youtube video, so I tried to replicate his sound a little. It works really well, with a bit of volume control you can go from cleans through to a nice crunch that cuts through the mix. This is the patch I copy for when we do a new song and weak the delays etc accordingly.

I also use a Fender Blues Deluxe with a long Reverb tail for the atmospheric bits.

However, having read this thread I am now very tempted to try the Plexi a bit more. Interestingly I also use IEMs and think they sound great, mine are low spec (Shure 215s) but still work very well. I have my BeyerDynamics headphones and studio monitors to double check my sound after I tweak as well.
 
Models I use:

combo: Class A 30W TB and Matchbox D30
D30 alone
Buttery (awesome amp - turm master all the way up, drive down)
I use the FET preamp for drive (distortion very low). It seems to give a lot of drive but keeps the clarity.
I use scenes to set drive levels of the amp as well.


For Brewster - 100W plexi, 100w plexi jump

As far as IEMs Westome UM3s.
 
codyraptor said:
Curious...why not use your IEMs? I would've thought you'd want your tone to sound great in your IEM's if they're good quality. I could understand not using them if they're iPod headphones or something..but a good set of IEMs seem to have a fairly flat response. Am I missing something on this one?
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The reason I say this is two fold.

One, I find it easier to plug in a coiled set of cans rather than getting out my wireless transmitter & {hopefully} charged battery and plugging that into the Axe. My IEMs can't reach the Axe while I'm standing so not useful for practicing. (plus a coiled cord allows me to trip over it less often! :) )

I also first take all my earbuds & headphones to my church and see which one plugged into the Axe best match the live PA sound. I A/B: no headphones with PA @ live volume -vs.- no PA output with headphones plugged into Axe. I find the one that best matches the EQ curve of my churches live PA. Rarely are live PAs truly set flat...at least IME.
 
...and for completeness :)

Here are all the patches I use with their associated Amp models. Some were tweaked from scratch (the Basic's & song titles) and others are based off stock presets. Vast majority of songs use the basic presets.


Basic Clean xy-CA3 + Clean
Basic Crunch x-Boutique 2 y-CA Triptik Clsc
Basic Dirty a1: xy-CA OD-2 && a2: x-CA Triptik Cln y-CA3+Clean
Basic High Gain x-Freidman HBE y-FAS Modern II
Ambience x-Buttery y-59 Bassguy
Mr. Z 38 xy-Mr Z Mz-38
Boutique 1 xy-Boutique 1
Aye Cee 30 x-Class-A 30W TB y-Class-A 15W TB
USA Clean x-USA Clean 2 y-59 Bassguy
Recto Modern xy-Recto2 Red Mdrn
Buttery xy-Buttery
Ganymede x-Vibrato Verb y-59 Bassguy
My Boutique x-Mr Z Mz-38 y-CA Triptik Cln
Freedom Reigns xy-Boutique 1
FAS Modern xy-FAS Modern
Meet With Me xy-Buttery
To Our God - G a1: x-Boutique 2 y-CA OD-2 || a2: Deluxe Verb y-59 Bassguy
Hosanna - PB x-Boutique 2 y-CA Triptik Clsc
Dirty w/ Double Echo a1: xy-CA OD-2 && amp2: xy-CA3 + Clean
Shimmer xy-Boutique 1
Brit 800 x-Brit 800 y-59 Bassguy
100w Plexi x-Plexi 100W High y-Plexi 100W Nrml
Stand In Awe x-Hipower Normal y-59 Bassguy
Who's Next xy-Hipower Normal
Wood Nymphs x-Double Verb y-59 Bassguy
Reverse Delay xy-Deluxe Tweed


sorry...the formatting gets lost and makes it hard to read. :(
 
i recently created a worship patch using the Brit45. I think it's a nice sounding mid-gain amp that can do clean and dirty depending on the drive. I too was aiming for the Nigel from Hillsong type of sound, but I guess I was thinking more along the lines of effects. I use a few EXP pedals (1 for dotted 8th level, one for multidelay level and one for drive). I thought it sounds pretty good through my k12's. My church uses these in worship as well (we're not rich). I swear i think something sounds good at home through k12's but when i get to church it sounds like ass. I don't know why. It drives me crazy. I've just about come to the realization that I don't know what sounds good, like i have no clue what is actually going to sound good in a mix with a band. I've following all recs about cutting the bass and highs in the cab block 120hz and about 7000hz. I make the patches at a loud volume 90db or so most likely. Maybe i'm paranoid or a perfectionist. The other guy in the worship band has my old HD500 and I swear he sounds better than me sometimes when my gear costs about 10x as much as his. It's freaking ridiculous. I mean i have a good time making the patches, but it seems like i'm making a whole new patch or patches every weekend cause the one i used last week sounds like ass. I think we all don't really know what sounds good sometimes. How can we call get patches from each other and we all thing the other ones sound like crap. I've heard multiple people say that most of the time they get patches from the exchange or other people and they just don't work for them. I know all the variance too about different FRFR and different guitars, but i guess i'm just venting a little. Anyway, I'm gonna keep plugging away at it and making decent patches that may or may not sound good depending on who's listening. I am gonna follow the advice of a recent post and go to the actual church (although it's the same speakers) and dial in some stuff. I guess i haven't done this because of having the same setup at my house.
 
luthier42 said:
Westone UM2s which sounded pretty flat and even as well as being clear
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Nuff said, those are my favorite go-to worship/live IEMs.

There's a lot of good preset combos to try with the knowledge JUST in this post alone which I am going to try as well.

For your worship setups, I would build 5-10 PRESETS with the same DELAY/REVERBS in them with the only difference being the amp/cab combos. For me I setup Dr Z, Super Verb, Two-Rock, Bogner, Komet and a couple others. Komet and DEFINITELY Two-Rock amp models were by far the best breakup for my guitar. Keep in mind that what guitar you're using makes a HUGE difference also....

Another caveat can be the gain staging structure for your FOH personnel to understand. The volume differences between a Plexi/Two-Rock/Super Reverb/Matchless is GOING to be different per preset so build accordingly.

Not much Two-Rock love in here yet ;) . I guess that is the 'first world struggle' we have to deal with in having 200 amps to choose from: THANKS A LOT CLIFF YOU GENIUS SON OF A SAINT.
 
All right - for combination of Vox and Plexi tone in one amp - go with Citrus AD30, with the stock citrus UR cab. I really love that tone. it gives you the voxish cut and bite and at the same time you have the plexish girth and raspiness that just stands out so well against pianos. With FET boost, it simply sings.
 
Triptik clean.

...I'm more and more convinced that the Triptik alone is worth the price of admission to the AxeFxII.
 
Spent a few hours today playing through a lot of the suggestions. I think the big winner was the AC-20. I actually really dig that cab too and started a few patches with different amps using the AC-20 1x12 cab. I've got a Tucana crunch preset and Cornford lead too. Should be a good enough starting point. I'll have to spend some time thru the FOH tweaking knobs, but just pulling up some amps and cabs on a blank preset and those three amps seem to be in the ballpark. I didn't even think to try any of the Orange stuff. The AD30 sounds like something I should check out too.
 
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luthier42 said:
Spent a few hours today playing through a lot of the suggestions. I think the big winner was the AC-20. I actually really dig that cab too and started a few patches with different amps using the AC-20 1x2 cab. I'm got a Tucana crunch preset and Cornford lead too. Should be a good enough starting point. I'll have to spend some time thru the FOH tweaking knobs, but just pulling up some amps and cabs on a blank preset and those three amps seem to be in the ballpark. I didn't even think to try any of the Orange stuff. The AD30 sounds like something I should check out too.
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AC-20 rules!!! I started using it with the cabs I suggested before the matching cab was given to us. I have tried switching to that cab but I need to tweak for it and have not had time. Are you using the ac20 mix or the ur ir?
 
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