Amp in the Room?

[AlGrenadine]

The result is somewhat similar to using dephase or smoothing with an IR I think

So do i...
This method was used in the old days

 

[Nahtanis]

I am curious to try this in my live setup where I don't use IR's since I am bypassing the cab block and going straight into a Marshall 1960a Lead cab. If I understand this correctly it could also give me a little more control?

 

[∞Fractals]

I am curious to try this in my live setup where I don't use IR's since I am bypassing the cab block and going straight into a Marshall 1960a Lead cab. If I understand this correctly it could also give me a little more control?

I don’t think so. I believe this solution is only for FRFR rigs.

I play into a pair of traditional 2x12 guitar cabinets powered by a GT1000fx … Gives me amp in the room all day long. They generally are behind me.

I also play through near-field FRFRs (IRs) which sit in front to balance the sound stage forward, and deal with HF content in time based effects.

Fun all day long!

 

[Genghis]

I am curious to try this in my live setup where I don't use IR's since I am bypassing the cab block and going straight into a Marshall 1960a Lead cab. If I understand this correctly it could also give me a little more control?

Your cab is already filtering, so if you are looking to add a little more control try something like this without the filter block, but add the EQ. I would use more subtle settings on the EQ with a real cab, as it already has the peaks and values you get from this EQ curve.

 

[Genghis]

I gave it a quick go and like the results. It is lacking a little something compared to the IR I used on the preset I tried this with, but I need to turn up the volume and see what it sounds like with a bit more punch behind it. Might do the trick then.

I adjusted the EQ to taste, but I think I may try another EQ block to fine-tune some other frequencies, or maybe just a parametric after the graphic to try to add what seems to be missing. That of course after I crank up enough to hear how it sounds at moderate levels instead of the low volume I tried this morning.

 

[DLC86]

Not exactly related to amp in the room but something that has never been discussed, if someone would like to chime in:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/minimum-phase-how-does-it-affect-the-sound-of-an-ir.141597/

 

[antcarrier]

One thing I've been searching for and no luck so far is some software to be able to view AND EDIT the freq response of irs. If we could see the response peaks and troughs in hi res and edit them it seems like it would be a lot easier to not only understand what is happening but also get your sound dialed faster

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...impulse-responses-and-a-free-ir-pack.1862749/

This software looks amazing. Unfortunately I have a mac so can't try it.

It is also possible to 'draw' IRs using something like audacity.

 

[Tahoebrian5]

This looks really cool. It does say it does not work with fractal format though so might be stuck with third party irs. Thanks for the link

 

[Stratoblaster]

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...impulse-responses-and-a-free-ir-pack.1862749/

This software looks amazing. Unfortunately I have a mac so can't try it.

It is also possible to 'draw' IRs using something like audacity.

Wow I just checked that software out (reading about it online and touring thru the downloaded files; haven't run it yet, etc.) but it looks very, very intriguing....

This looks really cool. It does say it does not work with fractal format though so might be stuck with third party irs. Thanks for the link

From what I can tell so far you should be able to use .the wav files generated, in the right format, from that software and use Cab-Lab to convert for use with the Fractal.

 

[Admin M@]

I am curious to try this in my live setup... If I understand this correctly it could also give me a little more control

I don’t think so.

I DO think so. In some of the best sounding pro rigs I work on we use exactly this technique on the output to power amp and guitar cabs while sending a cab sim to ears/FOH (though one might typically use settings which are more "gentle".) The method really lets you custom tailor the sound in the cabs.

 

[steadystate]

This is how I simulated speakers back in the 90s. Series Butterworth lowpass filters and 1/3 octave eq. Very similar to the Red Box and Palmer.

It lacks character, but sounds up front and in your face. IRs can be the opposite; too much comb filter character. I used to blend a Palmer IR with other IRs, but the Dephase parameter made this obsolete for me.

Sending to a cab makes sense to me. More control and variety.

 

[deadringer6565]

This is awesome! Thanks @FractalAudio!

Saves me time from sorting through hundreds of IRs to find the perfect one.

 

[chris]

This is awesome! Thanks @FractalAudio!

Saves me time from sorting through hundreds of IRs to find the perfect one.

Though it’s kinda like you just chose one and stuck with it *shrug*

 

[200man]

If an IR is a glorified EQ, then there should be IRs created like the frequency response curves the old timers at Altec and JBL put together. Take the cabinet outside and set up flat mics and capture the response in free space.

 

[Genghis]

Though it’s kinda like you just chose one and stuck with it *shrug*

I dunno, given that it's both a filter block and an eq block I'd say it's a little more flexible than that. I mean, i took Cliff's EQ tips as kind of a starting point and went from there, and that was only on ine patch. I can see this being pretty flexible.

 

[∞Fractals]

I DO think so. In some of the best sounding pro rigs I work on we use exactly this technique on the output to power amp and guitar cabs while sending a cab sim to ears/FOH (though one might typically use settings which are more "gentle".) The method really lets you custom tailor the sound in the cabs.

I’ll defer to your experience as it far exceeds mine. Opinion changed.

 

[chris]

I dunno, given that it's both a filter block and an eq block I'd say it's a little more flexible than that. I mean, i took Cliff's EQ tips as kind of a starting point and went from there, and that was only on ine patch. I can see this being pretty flexible.

that's assuming you're changing it all the time. if you set it one way and leave it, it's basically the same function as an IR.

 

[Nahtanis]

I DO think so. In some of the best sounding pro rigs I work on we use exactly this technique on the output to power amp and guitar cabs while sending a cab sim to ears/FOH (though one might typically use settings which are more "gentle".) The method really lets you custom tailor the sound in the cabs.

Awesome! I have an interesting setup in my home studio right now as I have the Axe3 going to monitors, and also going to a cab to compare. I have 2 presets that are identical, one doesn't use a cab block, and the other with the cab block uses an IR of my physical cab (4x12 Marshall 1960a). Playing through monitors with the IR it sounds fantastic. When I switch presets and play through the physical cab it still sounds good, but not as full and thick as the IR. So I am going to rush home now and try this out to see if this can push the cab a little further.

Either way at rehearsal the other night I started using the Axe3 instead of my amp. We have 2 guitarists and we both used the 5150. After we went through a few songs everyone started staring at the Fractal and was like "whoa, that thing sounds better than the actual amp". They definitely have the same sound, but the Axe3 seemed to cut through the mix better and was just overall tighter and clearer. So I guess now we just need to get one for the other guitarist hahahaha!

 

[electronpirate]

I tweaked this for a time with my CLR.

Full disclosure: I'm not an 'amp in the room' kind of guy (or the sounds I'm getting are SO close to that without the drawbacks that I like it better.) . I didn't get that much from this tweak. Maybe it works better on different amps, but I just tried it with the Plexi's, and after some AB I liked the cabs version (and subsequent tweaks I've done) better than this technique.

Again, I didn't spend more than 20 minutes playing with this, so YMMV here, but everytime I went to the cab scene, I went 'BOOM'.

 

[muudrock]

The concept of using EQ to simulate a speaker is compelling for several reasons; it'll be fun to explore this further...it's on the 'to-do' list...

One thing that may be interesting to add to this is a 'dummy' cab for the CAB block that simulates only the speaker motor (with no IR components/freq. shaping, drive, compression, etc) so you get that oh-so-sweet interaction between the virtual speaker motor and the power amp, then shape frequencies with the EQ's as mentioned...that would be intriguing....but I think the speaker motor is emulated already in the AMP block, so maybe...

...a new type of cab block with all of this stuff in it, a different 'hook' into the AMP block, refined with new ideas, and optimized, etc...lol this gets me thinking....

How about using the Null IR mixed with this method? I think that would be what you are referring to as a "dummy" cab. You'd have all the normal cab block controls without the IR filtering since its a null IR.