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Amp in the Room?

Discussion in 'Axe-Fx III Discussion' started by FractalAudio, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. Bullstein

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    That's exactly how it was done decades ago in the studio, when you played directly into the mixing console with your equipment and there were no loudspeaker simulators yet! ;-)
     
  2. nicolasrivera

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    First the Mics now the Cabs!;):p:D
     
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  3. JJunkie

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    Not bad - Honestly, it doesn't sound much different from other IRs, but that CPU saving though
     
  4. decreebass

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    Interesting! I can't wait to try this. Question: is it ideal for headphones, FRFR, studio monitors, or all of the above?

    I think I'm gonna A/B this setting with my actual amp; I LOVE that the Axe can duplicate the input 1 to an output so you can essentially feed two rigs your plain guitar signal :)
     
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  5. FractalAudio

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    Probably.
     
  6. Brucegregori

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    It's kind of cool concept, because you sometimes have those rooms that are very squishy and this set seems to neutralize that in some way. I just basically copied my normal twin patch and created the blocks Cliff suggested and turned off the cab block. A/Bing the two, you get a more immediate feel with the filter/eq block set up. Again, nice if the room is "not so dry". Pretty cool. Thanks Cliff for sharing this concept. Really helpful.
     
  7. Brucegregori

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    It definitely works great in a live setting if the room is too wet.
     
  8. 1poorplayer

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    Thanks for sharing this.
     
  9. lqdsnddist

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    IR’s are essentially eq curves of a given speaker and mics response at given position. Changing the mic position, the speaker etc, results in a change of response at a given frequency.

    You could hypothetically change mic slightly off axis or raise a frequency in the eq and get a similar response. I think this is what some software amp sims did when they had things like a virtual mic you could slide forward and back etc? Others have a bank of IR’s and you move the virtual mic and it loads the corresponding IR.

    I’ve always thought a problem with IR’s is they are static, its how the speaker responded at a given output level at a given moment. There is no way to dynamically change an IR to date, though I think the now mostly forgot Nebula software tried to do soemthing to that extent?

    Well, let’s say we are just trying to emulate a speaker through an eq curve. We can dynamically change eq with playing dynamics right ? So we could, I assume, also have the eq curve dynamically over time, with regards to output level etc.

    Perhaps this could be the solution to how to do emulate a rotary speaker cabinet, because its dynamic nature and capturing a single IR only results in on position of the drum and/or rotor.

    You’d need a bunch of different IR’s taken over it’s cycle of rotation, and then dynamically cycle through them, which isn’t possible.

    If we could dynamically adjust the EQ to respond in real time to what happens as it rotates, it seems to me we could have improved rotary speaker emulation with regards to how it would be perceived from a stereo source?
     
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  10. Tahoebrian5

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    This is kind of interesting. I've recently been rolling off hi freqs after the cab block in the 4.5 k range when going from my rhythm sound to lead sound in lieu of switching to a different ir.

    One thing I've been searching for and no luck so far is some software to be able to view AND EDIT the freq response of irs. If we could see the response peaks and troughs in hi res and edit them it seems like it would be a lot easier to not only understand what is happening but also get your sound dialed faster
     
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  11. axifist

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    I've used this thread as an opportunity / reminder to again give this approach a try. While I certainly can get good results with eq's and filters, I can always hear what's the IR and what is not.

    It's a nice way to safe processor power, it allows you to fine tune your cab sound, but it just can't sound as good as IRs!

    I'll stay with my IR mixes :)
     
  12. NeoSound

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    Geq and mini rta page in cab block for fine tuning?
     
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  13. Brucegregori

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    You've thought about this
     
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  14. TremoloFan

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    I wonder if Cliff's phone is blowing up with texts from ML, OwnHammer and others? I am very curious to try this out tonight when I'm back in the guitar dungeon.
    Thanks for the idea, Cliff! @Marco Fanton, can you post that sweet preset? I know I can build it based on Cliff's post, but thought I would ask.
     
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  15. DLC86

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    You should take a look at this thread: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...s-new-tech-regarding-speaker-cabinets.135191/

    I thought the same some time ago about the lack of dynamic of IRs, but it seems that speakers are pretty much linear in their operating range (Cliff has verified this long ago)
     
  16. NightWalker

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    i tried it but didnt like it,i prefer to use Irs.
     
  17. #37 Stratoblaster, Aug 10, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
    Stratoblaster

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    The concept of using EQ to simulate a speaker is compelling for several reasons; it'll be fun to explore this further...it's on the 'to-do' list...

    One thing that may be interesting to add to this is a 'dummy' cab for the CAB block that simulates only the speaker motor (with no IR components/freq. shaping, drive, compression, etc) so you get that oh-so-sweet interaction between the virtual speaker motor and the power amp, then shape frequencies with the EQ's as mentioned...that would be intriguing....but I think the speaker motor is emulated already in the AMP block, so maybe...

    ...a new type of cab block with all of this stuff in it, a different 'hook' into the AMP block, refined with new ideas, and optimized, etc...lol this gets me thinking....
     
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  18. Tahoebrian5

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    Maybe a 31 band EQ would work better for getting more character out of eq in place of ir
     
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  19. #39 Stratoblaster, Aug 10, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
    Stratoblaster

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    Agreed...how a speaker excites the room is the major part of that...

    I also have been preferring my IR tones vs a real cabinet for about a decade now; I have more flexibility, variety, consistency, etc. and I just like my IR/mic'ed tones better overall.

    I just can't help think there is something new in all of this that could be created in our modern DSP era; a new type of cab block, with some optimized parameters, refined/specialized EQ's, features, etc. that could compliment IR's...a speaker block that isn't so much an emulation but more of a progressive creation tool. But it's gotta feel good...perhaps there is some 'feel-magic' that can be parameterized into a cab block using only EQ's, to provide additional control for that...
     
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  20. zenaxe

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    New 'Emulated cab' block: incoming.
     

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