Amp in the room simulation

Rex said:
The manufacturer says that the different models are models of the actual driver (presumably free-field), as opposed to typical IR captures of speaker/cab combinations.
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The "tweeter" sits behind the "woofer" and is only activated when the FLAT setting is invoked - it's not used by any of the on-board speaker sims. Because of the speaker placements, they've said don't expect it to be a truly FRFR solution when in FLAT as it's still meant to invoke guitar cab character.
 
mixministermike said:
The "tweeter" sits behind the "woofer" and is only activated when the FLAT setting is invoked - it's not used by any of the on-board speaker sims. Because of the speaker placements, they've said don't expect it to be a truly FRFR solution when in FLAT as it's still meant to invoke guitar cab character.
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Understood. That’s why I’d expect the behavior of IRs to be different than they would be in an actual cab sim.
 
brianv4 said:
I'd have assume (without reading the specs) the speaker in the Powercab is FRFR (it is coaxial) or the IR's in it wouldn't work properly. Obviously you wouldn't have all the features of the AxeFx cab block
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It's an FRFR with some "flaws" of a guitar cab purposely baked in. Thinner speaker cone, apparently a more resonant guitar-cab-like cabinet, etc.
 
I got to play both under NDA while at Vai Academy back in January.

I used my Axe Fx II but not my guitar, and I didn't get the chance to compare to my Xitones or play very long.

However, they sounded good from the short time I had with them. They look great, they have some cool features, fairly high SPL and the prices sounded better than I would have expected.

For people who need to save CPU on the Axe Fx, you could leave off the Cab block and use one of the onboard speaker models. Also good for devices that may not include cab modeling.

I think these could become a popular choice... But time will tell.
 
GreatGreen said:
I think a lot of this discussion could be cleared up if instead of “amp in the room“ tone we simply said “face in front of the speaker cabinet” tone. Although that doesn’t roll off the tongue quite as easily.

Even if you could suspend yourself in the air along with all your gear in one of those anechoic chambers so you got zero room reflections or EQ influence there, you would still hear a difference between putting your face in front of an actual guitar cabinet vs putting your face in front of the pair of studio monitors listening to that cabinet being recording. There’s just something about microphones that inherently changes the character of the way the guitar sounds and I personally think the “room” element has a lot less to do with it than most people think.
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A lot of the special voice of the NF IRs is caused by the only small part of the paper cone that the mic captures.
When you move the mic around in front of the cone you get a lot different flavors.

When you shoot an FF IR you get all flavors mixed together including some comb filter effects.

You could mix different NF IRs to get something similar but it will not be the same.

Now put that FF IR in your soundchain and let it get displayed by your FRFR monitors. You get another mixture and another comb filtering from these FRFR monitors.
You have it twice!

Ways to solve that problem? I have no idea.
 
666was999 said:
When you shoot an FF IR you get all flavors mixed together including some comb filter effects.
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Comb filtering is more severe in a near-field capture than it is in a far-field capture.


666was999 said:
Now put that FF IR in your soundchain and let it get displayed by your FRFR monitors. You get another mixture and another comb filtering from these FRFR monitors.
You have it twice!
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Good FRFR monitors are better-behaved and more linear than guitar speakers. This minimizes the comb filtering that they add.
 
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unix-guy said:
I got to play both under NDA while at Vai Academy back in January.

I used my Axe Fx II but not my guitar, and I didn't get the chance to compare to my Xitones or play very long.

However, they sounded good from the short time I had with them. They look great, they have some cool features, fairly high SPL and the prices sounded better than I would have expected.

For people who need to save CPU on the Axe Fx, you could leave off the Cab block and use one of the onboard speaker models. Also good for devices that may not include cab modeling.

I think these could become a popular choice... But time will tell.
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Did it feel/sound like a real guitar cabinet or was it just another decent FRFR?
 
Semih Yanyali said:
Did it feel/sound like a real guitar cabinet or was it just another decent FRFR?
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Both!

They can be run flat and you use a Cab block or they can run as a traditional cab with various (modeled) speaker types.

Without having the "Real Thing ™" to compare it with, I couldn't really tell you how well it emulated the speakers. And I'm not sure how that works on the one that allows IRs to be loaded, since those are really a mic'd speaker.

Wish I had more time to compare but they were trying to get my input regarding features, etc.
 
I googled “amp in the room”, and I got the following hits, in this order

Forum.fractalaudio.com

Kemper.com

Line6.com

Thegearpage.net
 
You can explain the science and attempt to convince people they are wrong, but the modeling manufacturers cant ignore the fact that there's a huge potential customer base (tube amp users) that stay away from their products for some of the reasons discussed.

It appears Line6 recognizes this with the intro of their new speaker line. Will this bring new modeling adoptees into the fold? That remains to be seen...

I am still using my Axe through a tube amp and guitar cab. I actually like my Axe amp sounds better than my Landry host tube amp, at this point. But I still havent fully adapted to FRFR ....

When CDs came into being, and later mp3s, CONSUMERS voted with their pocketbooks and those great sounding tube Macintosh amps were totally marginalized. Guitarists have not yet gotten there... at least it's much more of a gradual transition...
 
mikeyg said:
You can explain the science and attempt to convince people they are wrong, but the modeling manufacturers cant ignore the fact that there's a huge potential customer base (tube amp users) that stay away from their products for some of the reasons discussed.
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I would say the number one reason is that those people don't want to use the equivalent of a computer. The Axe-Fx is seriously daunting with its multitude of menus, a manual as long as a legal document and a feature list that takes a while to wrap your head around.

By comparison a lot of tube amp players seem more open to units like the Boss Katana or Yamaha THR which operate more like your traditional amp and mostly look like them too. Of course price is certainly a big part of the appeal too.

I'm really interested in the Line6 Powercab too because it might help solve the issue of cab-in-a-room while still offering the flexibility of tailoring the speaker sound to the amp sound.
 
I've already got a Mission Gemini 2 2x12 and a Xitone MBritt convertible open/closed back 1x12. Settled on those after many trials with everything from PA speakers to Atomic CLR.

I just pre-ordered a Line 6 Powercab Plus 1x12. Had to try it. I think it's due to ship May 10, 2018.
 
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