Amp In The Room? Here Is How I Did It...

Stratoblaster

Stratoblaster

Fractal Fanatic
Am seeing a lot of discussions in various threads/forums about 'amp in the room', mix ready tones, etc. and thought I'd write this up FWIW.

Here is my recipe for 'amp in the room'. I did this years ago with my Ultra but since then I've not felt the need to keep doing this as I'm happy with my FRFR sound/feel with close miked/nearfield IR's thru my CLR's and don't miss a real cab.

-set up the AFX so one output goes thru a poweramp and conventional guitar cab (I used my Marshall 4x12 with G12-65's speakers) without using a CAB block in the signal chain

-set up the other output to route thru a CAB block into your FRFR reproduction system

-position both speakers directly on axis and level with your head several feet away. This is so you can hear your 4x12 in all it's glory and any comb filtering interactions the speakers add, etc. I sat on the floor directly in front of the 4x12 with the FRFR monitor in a similar position

-adjust the AMP block until you're happy with the tone coming thru the 4x12 (again, directly in front of it and level with your head)

-A/B between the two and play with nearfield IR's (go through a few, mix some, say, R121 and 57, M160 and 4047, etc.) until you can replicate the tone of the 4x12 thru the FRFR cabinet without changing the amp settings. I was able to get it more then close enough to the sound of the 4x12 to be quite satisfactory, and ultimately preferred the sound of FRFR monitor

-voila, 'amp in the room' via FRFR. You have a close mike IR/IR mix that sounds very much like a real cab. Celebrate...!

While the 4x12 does excite the room differently with it's 4 speakers vs a single 12" speaker, I pretty much achieved 'amp in the room' tone and feel with a single 12" FRFR monitor. Again, not quiet exact, but more than close enough to give me the conventional amp/cab vibe. You're producing the same/similar sound/tone of a 4x12 with the FRFR speaker and that is exciting the room; hence, 'amp in the room'.

From there, I dialed up tones I liked and worked while playing with the band and those tones are what I use to monitor myself live and send to the FOH. Some tones/amps may not work as well with the nearfield IR's that duplicate the particular cab you've compared them with, but you can adjust IR's, etc. from there.

For gigs I use the one output's global EQ's to compensate for the various stages/rooms for personal monitoring, and use the other output/global EQ to make any changes for the FOH if the sound tech feels the need to, or that adjustment can be made at the channel strip, whichever.

I generally prefer a fatter sound with more bottom for personal monitoring which sometimes needs a bit of low end rolled off for FOH/band mix but most times not, and just a very small compensation is all that's needed. Sometimes the high end needs a tweak but the global EQ's can do it all.

My current nearfield IR's are all a mix of a low/mid freq band mic (mainly the M160 but at times the R121) and a high freq band mic (mainly the 4047 but sometimes a 57); it all depends on the type of cab itself, a given amp, and the desired tone. Cab-Lab rocks for making these mixes, easy to use and you don't need to use a stereo CAB block or two CAB blocks saving CPU on the AFX.

The AFX has tons of flexibility and output options/room EQ's to adjust on the fly to deal all of this for different rooms/scenarios....great stuff indeed.
 
I love and use tube amps, however the volume levels needed to get a good tone can be problematic. This is why I prefer to run my amps thru reactive loadboxes and use the XLRs to feed FOH or stereo monitors, I find I can get great tones at low listening levels, however, I still want a cab in the room to go along with the XLR feeds from the Axe and from my reactive loadboxes. So I use 3 watt class A amps to power cabs, with the low power, just a little bit at the volume and I get a nice stereo feed from the monitors and the cabs.
 
Care to share that Marshall G12-65 IR? I love those speakers and would like to hear your "amp in the room" tone in person.

Thanks,

Roger
 
hochha said:
I love and use tube amps, however the volume levels needed to get a good tone can be problematic. This is why I prefer to run my amps thru reactive loadboxes and use the XLRs to feed FOH or stereo monitors, I find I can get great tones at low listening levels, however, I still want a cab in the room to go along with the XLR feeds from the Axe and from my reactive loadboxes. So I use 3 watt class A amps to power cabs, with the low power, just a little bit at the volume and I get a nice stereo feed from the monitors and the cabs
Click to expand...

Cool...interesting setup. Curious as to what 3 watt Class A amps you're using? I built a small low wattage Class A tube amp using a 6V6 (I have a large assortment of 6V6 tubes; some old NOS RCA metal ones that sound great).
 
rtcook said:
Care to share that Marshall G12-65 IR? I love those speakers and would like to hear your "amp in the room" tone in person
Click to expand...

I made that IR mix several years ago with my Ultra using the Redwires BigBox Cab Pack. I can have a look to see if I documented the mix recipe and cab but it either was the '68 Marshall Basketweave - Celestion G12M20 or the '68 Marshall Basketweave - Vintage G12M25 cab/IR files with U87 mic on the Cap-Edge 1" to 2" I'm pretty sure.

I've not used that Redwires IR mix for a long time and use UltraRes IR's from the various FAS Cab Packs these days but I'll have a look to see if I still have the mix formula.

The IR mix was indeed very close in tone to what I was hearing from my 4x12 several feet away directly on axis; close enough that I didn't feel it was worth getting it 100% exact. It gave me a great reference to start with and I'd think you could achieve the same results much quicker/easier with more modern IR's and mixing tools. I had to prepare the mix formulas in a text file back then, then upload them with another software tool, etc. It was pretty laborious and time consuming...we've come a long way in the last couple of years.

For a long time now I've just mixed IR's to get tones that I like with a specific tonal objective in mind without being overly concerned with duplicating my 4x12, but my methodology should still apply to users who are looking to 'clone' a cab in the far field with nearfield IR captures.
 
Stratoblaster said:
-adjust the AMP block until you're happy with the tone coming thru the 4x12 (again, directly in front of it and level with your head)
Click to expand...

One thing I made sure to do in the AMP block was to set the "Speaker Res. Freq" to match the 4x12 which was 110Hz (I measured my cab).
 
Stratoblaster said:
Cool...interesting setup. Curious as to what 3 watt Class A amps you're using? I built a small low wattage Class A tube amp using a 6V6 (I have a large assortment of 6V6 tubes; some old NOS RCA metal ones that sound great).
Click to expand...
I have two stereo Lexicon Signature 284 rack mount amps, these are EL84 pure Class A, one power tube per channel, they are meant for low volume recording altho they can pump out a lot of sound. I run one channel of each amp to Torpedo Studios, the remaining channels then power cabs at low volume. I have them close so I don't need to much volume and with the feed from my stereo monitors, sounds better than I deserve. Check out my post in the (Rigs and Routing) post your rig thread.
 
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hochha said:
I have two stereo Lexicon Signature 284 rack mount amps, these are EL84 pure Class A, one power tube per channel, they are meant for low volume recording altho they can pump out a lot of sound
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Cool...when I read your earlier post in this thread the Lexicon Signature 284 is what I thought of when you mentioned a 3W Class A amp. I was trying to get one of those before I got into the Fractal stuff; they were hard to find. I've read a lot of good things about them and how good they sounded...people raved about them and I'd still like to pick one up.
 
Yes the 284s are hard to find, I always search for them and when I find one I grab it, looking for my third one now. One was on Ebay not long ago but the seller wanted $1000 for it because it was a Magic Eye unit which is just a larger crystal over the power bulb so I let it go. They sold for $1000 when they were new and they are all around 20 years old now!
 
yek said:
Amp-in-the-room goes beyond finding a matching IR. It's also about thump, speaker directivity, room ambience and such.
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Yes, true, but an IR mix that replicates the frequency content of a real cab from a given listening position will excite the room in a similar fashion as the real cab. There will be differences to be sure, but the overall effect is quite similar.
 
I use a matrix and real cab - When I first got the axe, I was globally turning off the cab sims and I thought my tones were pretty good. Until I saw a video on here from Danni Danzi showing how he dials in a real cab and using the cab block as well. Once I starting doing that - oh my - a whole new level to my patches! They have life and breathe now, and definitely give me what I would consider the "amp in the room" feel...
 
Do you have a link to the Danni Danzi video ? I am unable to find it with a search. Would like to see his ideas on this . Thanks
 
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